<p>Wanting to "shake her" and the attitude he takes is controlling. Again, message v. tone. You simply CANNOT force adults to do something they don't want to do. Even trying is ridiculous. </p>
<p>Why are you talking about divorce? Aren't they dating, on and off, non-exclusively? I see controlling when the person gets too involved for the situation. </p>
<p>To answer your third paragraph, Bobby, I 1) do not do what MathGuy does and try to force the issue. Adults are adults. 2) I discuss with them, which usually involves the other person doing most of the talking. Shutting up isn't easy, but it gets results. Most people I know are smart and rational; if they do something that would be long-term bad, they'll figure it out on their own. Talking through it and having a sounding board is sufficient.</p>
<p>We have been consistently dating, mostly on if you read my message carefully. As she is a student and has a job, there are stretches of times when her time is limited. And without getting into details, we did break up a couple times, but it was short lived. That is the connotation of why I meant to say. </p>
<p>As for me guessing. Well yes - I am guessing because I don't know the exact specifics. I do feel like I have a good ball park figures though, and I think that others would agree. A lot of this information IS public. I DO KNOW that NYU is not giving her that much money, and she would not lie to me (we are always very truthful with each other). It's a "a few grand." As for your other comments, she is already "independent" and no, I am NOT controlling of her. That's why I'm discussing this with you, and not her as she doesn't feel comfortable. I think it stresses her out, so I don't want to go in that direction. I am very supportive of her educational plans and goals, yet also concerned at the same time.</p>
<p>Of course she has every right to disagree. But if she is serious about wanting a future with this guy it's only fair for her to disclose the amount of her debt and her plan for repayment. Then they can both decide if they want to go forward.</p>
<p>Bobby, everybody has their own conditions for relationships. Some people keep their money seperate some do not. She can choose to not disclose her debt amount. He must decide if he is willing to accept that or not. There are no hard and fast rules as to how a relationship works. Also it does not sound like she is sure that Math_guy is the one. She said he is the one but then tells him to date other people...could just be she has a different way of thinking but she does not sound like she is settling down anytime soon.</p>
<p>No hard and fast rules certainly, but certainly healthy approaches v. unhealthy ones. MG is asking for opinions, and I'm giving mine. There is no way I fould feel comfortable moving forward in a relationship where my gf wasn't willing to be open about finances. We might decide to manage our money separately, but I think we are each entitled to know what the other will be able to financially contribute to our future. </p>
<p>It takes 2 professionals in many places to live a solid upper middle class lifestyle, something many educated people aspire to. If my future spouse's debt is going to limit our lifestyle and ability to afford what we would want for our offspring, I'd like to know so I can make a rational decision as to whether I could live with it.</p>
<p>I really don't want any surprises after I put "the ring on her finger." In many religions couples receive counseling prior to marriage. Financial issues are a main part of such for good reason.</p>
<p>I am not disagreeing with how you think a relationship should work. I guess what I am trying to politely say is the relationship although serious to him may not be serious to her and that is why she does not feel it necessary to disclose. I understand where you are coming from but you can not demand people to do anything period. When you start forcing someone to be someone they are not you are headed for disaster. It is not unhealthy to handle your own money by the way. You can have your opinion but to say that it is unhealthy to think otherwise is not correct. Some people would say with the divorce rate the way it is you would be a fool to mix money. The point is people need to find someone who is like minded.</p>
<p>As I have pointed out in the past, she does not have anyone (like me) who can guide her, so I feel like mentioning something like this would be a shake up for her. It would probably hurt her emotionally as well, which is probably why she doesnt want to talk about it.. At this point, I see no point of a "shake up" as it will do anything except stress her out. She is nearing the end of this journey, and perhaps it is all water under the bridge at this point. God speed!</p>
<p>You are severely misinterpreting my posts, and are being overly harsh in your word choice. Also, you seem to be consistently incorrect, upset, and angry even as I have displayed hard facts on numbers. I agree with bobby100 in that you are off in your own fantasy financial world! If you disagree, I welcome that. Show me some proof, or point me to a new source as others have done.</p>
<p>Finally, you have shown that you do not read things carefully. If you had, then you would not repeatedly ask (and be upset) about how I got to my projected cost numbers, which is clearly stated at the top of Post #1. </p>
<p>Please do not place your frustrations onto me and other members on this board. It is inappropriate and immature.</p>
<p>Math guy, you seem to be looking for someone to agree that
1- she's taken on too much debt
2-- she can't possibly make enough out of undergrad to pay it off
3-- she needs you carping at her to see the error of her ways
4-- this is a big issue if the relationship continues.</p>
<p>I don't get it. You seem to see very clearly that your communication styles, risk management, attitude towards debt, lifestyle goals, etc. are quite incompatible. Why are you looking to total strangers to tell you to break it off with this woman? Your gut has already told you that it's not going to work long term.</p>
<p>So- I'll be the bad guy. Break it off. I actually don't see the debt and the student loans as an issue at all. I think that someone who is an older undergrad who exhibits all the traits you've described is a poor life's choice for a guy who is as linear in his thinking as the OP. You like to research every decision, do the math, calculate down to the minute how to cut your commute, etc. She likes to take life as it comes-- the debt will get paid, she will get a job, you can date other people, etc.</p>
<p>Sounds like a poor match to me but you didn't need a stranger to tell you that. Let's put you both out of your misery.</p>
<p>I think the issue is that I have been asking myself if: 1) I want to stay in the relatioship and maintain status quo, 2) try and take it to the "next" level, or 3) transform the relationship into more of a friendship (if possible). </p>
<p>I am 32, and am looking to settle down. So, yes, there is a push from my end to move things along - and she knows it.</p>
<p>^Ooo I see. I was thinking she could get an apartment with roomates for a couple hundred a month cheaper than what she is paying. She cant get loans if she doesn't live in their housing...that sucks. :(</p>
<p>Sweeny, if you read my post, I also feel it's fine to handle money separately. I do, however believe that a couple needs to know what each will be contributing to the household.</p>
<p>Aries, have you been pushed around by guys? Sure sounds like it. We're not all control freaks. But the wise among us do want to be clear on what the spending habits are of those we may marry.</p>
<p>That said, I agree with Blossom if not with her tone. I think your gut has already told you she's not THE ONE. Slow down. Do date other women or just move on.</p>
<p>Yeh- I the dorm situation does suck. I suggested the same thing. To her credit, she DID think of stuff like this on her own as well.</p>
<p>The reason this is not great is that NYU's rates for dorms are really not that much cheaper than the market! You can get a studio for about 1500 (a cheap one) which is about 18000/year + utilities. NYU's single dorm costs 17,820 with utilities, but that is only for 9 months of the year. At the end of the day, NYU dorms are pricy regardless of what people say.</p>
<p>Now to be fair, I have seen some NYU dorms that are REALLY nice for what you pay for. The catch is that they are generally far away from most classes though, and you need to take a shuttle bus for about half an hour to get to classes. Also, if you have a meal plan, you need to take the shuttle bus. Also, these shuttle buses do not operate year round, so you still need to rely on public transporation.</p>
<p>NYU dorms are OK from what I've seen. I've experienced 3 buildings with my gf, as she has moved around a bit.</p>
<p>The biggest shocker to me is that NYU dorms don't have computer facilities in the dorms! That was a shock to me. My school was chalk full of computers and facilities, all free for students to use. Computer labs with big workstations were EVERYWHERE.</p>
<p>But then again, I went to good state school in the midwest and paid a handsome 4K for tuition + 5K room/board + 1K (personal - liven it large) = 10K/year.</p>
<p>I graduated in 3 years, and only paid 30K for my education (with no debt)!</p>
<p>math guy, like they tell you in AA, "problem drinking is drinking which is a problem". It doesn't need to fit someone else's description of alchoholism.... if it's become an issue in your work, relationships, etc, is a problem and you need to fix it.</p>
<p>So here--- if I were to tell you that her debt is $60K or 80K or 200K-- does it matter? If I were to show you an amortization table which told you that she could pay off the debt in 8, 12, 20 years, would it make a difference to you? If I could explain that by moving to Tulsa you could buy a house, have a child, and still pay off the loans comfortably would you care? No, of course not. The issue isn't the debt, it's her attitude towards it, and towards you, and towards your very structured way of thinking about the future which isn't a great fit with her very unstructured way of planning and thinking about the future.</p>
<p>You are here hoping to find the tooth fairy of financial aid-- one of us is going to tell you that NYU will magically come up with an extra $50K next year, her parents will suddenly discover a missing bank account with $80K in it and her name on it, or that Sallie Mae will forgive her loans because after all, NYU is expensive and living in a single is a neccesity not a luxury.</p>
<p>Well, no tooth fairy. You're reading the tea leaves and seeing huge incompatibility here.... and by making the loans the issue you are really missing the big picture. Me-thinks you're wondering why she isn't working as an RA to get a free room; why she didn't join ROTC to get a scholarship; why she didn't look at SUNY or Hunter as cheaper options; why she isn't more upset that you're upset.</p>
<p>Been married a long time. Don't take the relationship to the next step... whatever that is... if you're going to be scrutinizing every pair of shoes she buys or every latte she drinks and wondering if it's digging you further into a financial hole. Life too short.</p>
<p>again, why are you on an anonymous message board when you seem to already know the answers here? Do you really think that someone at her age is going to suddenly wake up and do things your way????</p>