<p>well, i guess no one can really comment because we dont officially know how many minorities are even available that meet the standards, or how many minorities colleges accept that maybe arent as high-acheiving. once its more equalized out, i feel that aff. action can be more of a back-burner issue. I can see however why some ppl are upset when minorities with SUPER low stats get in over them, regardless of their race. but one can never be too optimistic when discussing discrimination (potentially in college admissions, were it not for AA)…idk. its a touchy issue…i feel as though that now aff action will fade away as more and more minorities are stepping up to the plate. nobody should feel that they can use their identity or race as a crutch, or as an excuse for not doing well. i mean, how would you feel if you achieved something, but not by your own merits?</p>
<p>I was just going over to the “Harvard” forum and this one CC-er asked if he/she had a chance because of he/she was an Asian with an SAT score of a 2100. And…everyone is speaking soooooo negatively! =/ I tried cheering the person up and saying how colleges do not just look at scores and anything is possible but my idealistic butt was insulted too smh</p>
<p>^Honestly, 2100 is pretty low for anyone at Harvard who isn’t hooked. You can just look at Harvard’s 25-75% ranges and see that.</p>
<p>@starlight, I think CCers in general are very delusional about their chances of getting into certain schools. Yeah, sure they may have the stats and the grades, but quite a few of them are just boring people in general, and it shows through their ECs. The way I see it, you are compared against people that are similar to you in the applicant pool, a combination of ECs, Academics, Test Scores, Recommendations, etc. Though everyone is a unique individual, there are very many cookie cutter applicants that just do well at very many things but have nothing that really glows about them. Personality, if I may. Now if there was a way to quantify that, CCers have another thing to get up in arms about!</p>
<p>@Millancad: Well, I scored a 2100 on the SAT I :/…<em>GULP</em>
@Obstinate: My mother was just talking to me about her opinion on how prestigious universities narrowed the applicant pool down over a dinner at Red Lobster (tee hee lol). She was stunned how schools like Harvard have over 30,000 applicants and have to narrow it down to 1,600 more or less. Interesting point :-).</p>
<p>I mean, they may say that they have over 30,000, but a good 10% of that are people that are unqualified (sub-3.0 GPA/sub-1800 SAT). </p>
<p>Also, keep in mind that even at a place like Harvard, there are only ~1,300 black applicants. That’s who you’re competing against. The first-year class is ~150 black students, so the odds of a black student getting accepted are a bit higher than other races. So just think, what sets me apart from other black students that are applying for these schools?</p>
<p>@Obstinate i TOTALLY agree with your point about cookie cutter applicants. most of the top ranked people in my grade are like that. they’re smart, do a million EC’s, but so does everyone else who applies to these schools lol.</p>
<p>before i was nervous about telling people in my school about cornell, but i honestly don’t even care anymore, i’m not telling the others who applied to their face because i know they’re really anxious, but if they find out about it through someone else then its whatever,its not fair that i have to hide my joy for others. </p>
<p>i know for a fact that one of the other 4 who applied is gonna say that i got in just because of Aff action, he’s just pretentious and pompous like that lol, the funny thing though is that he thinks he’s God’s gift to the world but the only thing he’s got is his intelligence. he never did anything else through high school, apparently he thinks that’s enough to get into cornell, oh well…</p>
<p>In my opinion, college seats shouldn’t be split into racial categories. I believe the highest overall stats (e.g. GPA, rank, SAT, ACT, volunteer work, EC, and leadership positions) should get into elite schools. If African Americans or any other race cant get into MIT because swarms of Asians that apply are much more qualified, well then, let it be. We want to produce the best engineers possible- so why not only accept the best in the finest engineering school in the world? The only factor that should be considered besides the stats I listed above is AREA LOCATION. The majority of black and Hispanic students I have met from top schools (Harvard, Cornell, Duke etc etc), have come from safe, good neighborhoods while attending very competitive/sufficient high schools. These minorities are NOT inner city kids. They receive the same opportunities as the white and Asian students attending their school. They receive the same resources and the same fairness as the white and Asian students attending their school. So therefore- Affirmative action should not come into play with these minorities because they obviously have great opportunities to excel in an ideal learning environment. Affirmative action generalizes that all minorities are underprivileged. This is absolutely not true for most of the minorities at Ivy league schools. Affirm action should only be applied to inner city-type low achieving neighborhoods/schools where success is harder to reach.</p>
<p>Well I see both sides of the fence. Many African Americans who apply to ivy league schools do come from comfortable homes and should be treated on the same scale as applicants of other races. However there are many that do not come from well situated homes. </p>
<p>I am going to speak for myself now and say that I had a very troubled childhood and now that I am getting older things are only now getting better because I look forward to my future. I used to live in a shelter which was tough and there are a lot of other traumatic experiences that I do not care to mention. Personally I worked my a** off in school and on the sat’s so that I can make a better life for myself. </p>
<p>I believe that I am qualified to get into prestigious schools but for others who are not so qualified and come from a similar background as me, I do not feel that they should be judged for getting in through affirmative action. Many circumstances at home can prevent them from doing as well as they could have. If they have to take care of their siblings or work, they do not have half as much time to study as many of YOU all have. </p>
<p>I see both points but from my past and my own personal experience that is just the way I feel.</p>
<p>HBrown- The thing is, my brother attends Cornell. I go up there all the time to visit. And all the times I’ve been up there I met minorities that all claimed they came from competitive high schools (usually composed of indian/asian/white). I’m saying the MAJORITY of Ivy League minorities came from great high schools. Now. Inner-city kids doesn’t mean just black or just hispanic. There are also lower income whites and asians living in predominantly black/hispanic poor neighborhoods. Which brings me to my conclusion once again. That small percentage of whites and asians living in those horrible neighborhoods, are left untouched. They don’t have the luxury of “affirm action” as do their black counterparts living in the same cruddy town and attending the same cruddy school. Thats why I believe the benefits of Affirm Action should be rewarded upon A-R-E-A L-O-C-A-T-I-O-N and Not Race. </p>
<p>And those who argue that Affirm Action brings diversity to a school.</p>
<p>Well thats nice and all.
But…</p>
<p>If you put a person in MIT that really was wayyyyy below-par (which I’ve seen), you’re going to produce less efficient engineers. Diversity is nice, but unnecessary. MIT’s (and other engineering schools equivalent to it) goal is to produce the best engineers in the world. If asians are the only ones able to get in from competitive high schools…let it be. If they can do it. - Any race can do it.</p>
<p>And as I said before I understand both sides of the fence. But I hope you see where I am coming from. </p>
<p>I do agree that many African Americans who apply to ivy leagues are not from underprivileged homes and should be judged equally. I go to a moderately good school and I have Asian friends that come from low income families so I understand.</p>
<p>Okay random question…Columbia’s fin. aid emailed me personally about something that I needed to send in (it wasn’t an automated thing). I was thinking…that’s weird. Is this normal, or is it a good sign (April 1 is so close yet so far away lol)?</p>
<p>@HBrown: a good friend of mine who attends Cornell told me not to start freaking out because the kids who committed suicide were all engineering majors … i mean, unless you’re an engineering major or pre-med, i’m sure the workload will be pretty manageable. </p>
<p>and besides, this is all about self-endurance, motivation and stregnth. when you go to these types of schools, it’s a matter of questioning yourself about whether or not you can handle what’s being thrown at you.</p>
<p>@beautifulnerd: i’d say that’s a good sign =] . but you’ll never know until april 1st.</p>
<p>16 days…O_O…16 days…<em>gulp</em></p>
<p>@HBrown again, I totally agree with you and i definitely connect to your story and theory. i commend you on everything. i used to beat myself up for not having the best SAT scores. But you know what, I realized that I had to work with what I had instead of sitting there, sobbing about it. I saw a lot of my friends pay hundreds of dollars just to increase their scores by a few points to get a perfect score after the PSAT, while I was worried with my 1580 PSAT. In the end, I knew I had to somehow buckle down and get that score up and by taking practice test after practice test, I ended up improving by 300 points. No teachers. No classes. Nothing extra. Just me and the Blue Collegeboard book. Hopefully, that’ll come across to the admissions officers that I was at a disadvantage but I used what i had available to me to the fullest. I know in my heart that I’m way smarter than that; my AP scores and GPA are a testament to that. The SAT just measures how well you can take a test. The collegeboard is such a scam -_-.</p>
<p>i keep thinking, if only i could’ve taken just one of those classes … hmm . i would’ve probably given the world to do it. but i just couldn’t because of finances and the time it would take out of my working schedule, which would be a detriment to my family. but it’s all over now. </p>
<p>sorry for venting; i obviously have some issues with this system</p>
<p>@justadream I AM going to be premed. Matter of fact biochem major which is supposed to be harder. Sigh!! But I will be fine. Secondly, I went through the same thing as you. My friends paid for tutors (75 dollars an hour) but I could not afford it. I studied really hard and used all of my resources. I honestly did the best I could so no regrets. We both will do fine in college it just takes hard work and determination. :)</p>
<p>@andyboy; i happen to come from an underpriviledged and “achievement-gap” high school. yet, i still manage to compete with the greatest students in the country by participating in the AP program. Throwing a student from this kind of environment into elite schools can be daunting and risky. Yes, they may struggle. But if the college admits him/her, they obviously see potential. In fact, students from these environments can actually be motivated by the challenges put forth against them at elite schools, which will probably help them perform at a higher level than most of their peers. I’ve seen people come from the poorest neighborhoods and students who have attended the worst schools excel at places such as Stanford and UChicago. These adcoms aren’t stupid; they know what they’re doing. they’re not going to admit failures and potential drop outs because they want to keep their yield rates up for graduation. </p>
<p>in essence, affirm-action is an opportunity to bring UP those who are DOWN, but not down in a way that no potential is reflected in the minority student. i do believe that those minority students who enjoy middle/high class affluence should not be considered for affirm-action because they’re quality of life is on a higher level than the students who lyndon b. johnson had in mind when this whole thing began. i think affirm-action should be based on socio-economic status instead of matters of race because minorities who are well-off have an overall advantage on those who are from the working class.</p>
<p>hey guys…</p>
<p>lets remember for a moment. Affirmative action is only supposed to ensure that prejudiced racist people who run the system don’t keep qualified minorities out. Its not intended to be a crutch, or give minorities an excuse not to perform as well. Sure, colleges hopefully will be understanding when any under-privileged kid gets a 2100 instead of a 2350 on the SAT b/c he or she couldn’t afford it, regardless of race. And yes, maybe they’ll forgive that “C” you got while you were having financial/family troubles. </p>
<p>I’m just ever so slightly irked by the fact that under-qualified minorities are accepted for not performing to the standards. That is NOT the intention of aa, its only purpose is to essentially combat racism that prevents blacks, latinos, women, etc. from reaching their fullests potentials.</p>
<p>There should be no aa for economic standing, b/c admissions are need-blind, and there is no risk that you will not be accepted simply b/c you are poor. In addition…so what if many of the Black student are well-off (not necessarily wealthy) and don’t come from the ghetto. Racism exists for ALL black people, rich or poor. Sexism exists for ALL women, rich or poor. </p>
<p>And finances are NOT the only issue for people which makes them underprivileged; not everybody chooses to make their lives a sob story to seek pity. Everybody has their family drama and secrets, ranging from abuse, domestic violence, problem siblings, illness, to death, but many choose to hide this out of embarrassment. We shouldn’t get a pass for this. </p>
<p>One must remember, AFFIRMATIVE ACTION SHOULD NOT BE A MEANS FOR ANY GROUP OF PEOPLE TO GET WHAT THEY DON’T DESERVE. WE SHOULD BRING OURSELVES UP, WITHOUT EXPECTING SOMEONE ELSE TO DO IT FOR US.</p>
<p>But, as a post-script, according to Malcolm Gladwell’s Outliers and other studies, many minorities who benefitted from AA end up being just as successful as Whites in the long run. So indeed, determination and potential are major components in success, not just the best GPA or SAT score. (I see why some are saying that CCers delude themselves into thinking their brains alone will put them in the ivy league). But this doesn’t mean an incompetent person should benefit from AA; these studies refer to competent ppl.</p>
<p>I just hope that we never get to the point where we’re discerning which “black” “needs AA more”, based on their socio-economic condition, or that qualified Black students are rejected, while inner-city ones who didn’t perform nearly as well are accepted (lets assume identical ECs, essays, recs, etc.). </p>
<p>What right do we have to get mad when White people tell us we only got in b/c we’re black, when in reality we’re banking on that to get us into college?</p>
<p>Justadream92 - That is what I am saying! If a student from a poor high school is excelling and on the level of students from very competitive high schools- I believe the adcoms should deff admit them for the most part. </p>
<p>But…</p>
<p>When we are talking about an Asian girl with a perfect 4.0/4.0. Massive AP loads, and managed to score a 1600 on the SAT out of 1600 (on top of that English is her 2nd language!..and she graduated high school a year earlier!)…with EC like all state violinist, INTEL semifinalist, and special math competitions…getting wait listed from Columbia…While a hispanic kid from the same school as her (with a 3.7 gpa and a 1310 out of 1600 SAT with job experience working at the mall) gets into columbia with no problem…Then there is deff something wrong with the system. I know this how? My best friend is that Asian girl. And I know the hispanic kid personally. His family has more money than her for god sakes!!!</p>