<p>Reddune, where am I coming from?
Well, I totally agree with you on pretty much everything. As for his international status, my point was that his toefl scores would substitute his SAT verbal if it's not very high. In addition, that's what you said-"you'll find a few of them". I'm not saying that the majority of international students get low scores, there is probably a majority of international applicants to harvard with the scores over 2250. But not a lot of them have stellar extrucurriculars, since all countries and cultures are different and, for example, students in China are not as involved in different extrucurricular activities in their high schools as they are involved with Cal IV for instance(I have 3 chinese roomates who can verify that). Furthermore, there is even a separate topic on international Forum about so-called "cheaters"--people who put extrucurriculars that they've never even done in their life, but since they sincerely believe noone is going to find out, they still do that. I'm pretty sure Harvard is aware of it and of the fact that in some countries the system of education is designed in a way that students are mostly focused on their academic achievements rather than in presidency in "contemprary film club" or whatever. They don't even have extrucurriculars in some countries!To sum it up, my point is, that it is inappropriate to literally tell the guy that he virtually doesn't have any chances to get in this year,since we don't know the whole story and all the statistics about applicants in his category this year(for instance,we don't know how many "academically brilliant cheaters" are going to apply this year, but this factor does matter).</p>
<p>Thanks for all your advice guys. Assumed Harvard is the school I want to go to eventually, should I transfer to NYU, BU (or maybe even columbia) this year if I get in there and try transfer from there to Harvard (will that not look bad, transferring twice?), or should I rather stay here and try to transfer? Even though I really want to get away from here...I realize my chances for Harvard are extremely low for this year, however I might just hope that the admission committee will realize that someone who got an internship at JP Morgan and the European Parliament will be able to score higher than that on his SATs (again, I took them without any preparation during my exchange year in the US when I had been here only for 6 weeks)...and I did good on my TOEFL, and got 660 in the SAT math section..hmhm!</p>
<p>I think transferring twice looks bad, especially in the manner that you plan on. It will be pretty obvious that you are moving constantly for prestige reasons. Perhaps you should get into the best school during your transfer and then hope for Harvard/Columbia/etc. for grad school.</p>
<p>the only problem would be to explain to Harvard why you were transferring so much. However, if there are kids transferring from Columbia(I know people who are TV broadcasting or journalims majors and they are STILL transferring from Columbia to Harvard!!!!), then who is talking about prestige reasons???And if Harvard does except those broadcasting majors to columbia who are basically transferring exactly for prestige reasons(no,it's not like they didn't like their TAs or the program), then why wouldn't they accept an nyu transfer?</p>
<p>Because Columbia is a much better school than NYU - i.e., you're not really transferring up, whereas you are if you are coming from NYU.</p>
<p>One of the points that hazarrrd brought up that I find curious was whether a good TOEFL score would offset a bad/mediocre SAT verbal or writting score. I asked an admission counselor at my school and she said (this is the opinion of one adcom and not of Harvard or BC, so don't quote it) that high TOEFL "does not usually" offset a low SAT verbal/writing (v/w) score. Colleges would want an international students to take to the TOEFL if their SAT v/w is below 600 to make sure they are competent with their English. I went on to ask what other factors are taken into consideration when evaluate TOEFL vs. SAT score. She replied that the country of origin is taken into consideration (i.e. sub-sahara versus affluent Western European), the social economics background is considered. Basically, a student from a poor background from a poor country will be looked under a more "sympathetic" light than someone from a more affluent background. A high TOEFL score "might" offset a low SAT v/w score in such case of the former. </p>
<p>Umass, you might have to ask yourself: How poor am I? </p>
<p>Searching through Harvard admission site [haven't done that since the rejection letter came two years ago] to see what Harvard's policy on TOEFL and this is all there is: </p>
<p>"Students are not required to submit the Test of English as a Foreign Language (TOEFL)." And Harvard recommends that " Students in such countries (that DOES NOT offer SAT) should also take the TOEFL (along with the GRE)."</p>
<p>And they were very adamant about the SAT requirement:</p>
<p>"Yes. We realize students educated abroad may be unfamiliar with these examination formats, but all applicants must submit the results of the SAT I and three SAT II Subject Tests." </p>
<p>There is something else for transfer only student:</p>
<p>"Students whose native language is not English are required to take EITHER the TOEFL (Test of English as a Foreign Language) or the SAT I if taken after March 2005. " Now the thing is I don't know if this statement applies to transfer students who are in foreign university or U.S. university (like Umass88 is). Best call up and ask.</p>
<p>what do you mean how poor am I? I already took the toefl anyway...and there would be no use in not sending the scores in...
can test scores (i.e. sats) be the one and only reason one does not get admitted? I would notsee why I would not be admitted otherwise..</p>
<p>The crazy thing about admissions is that sometimes you just don't know why you weren't accepted. I know people with perfects scores, valedictorians, hours and hours of community service, national contest winners that don't get into Harvard. </p>
<p>They look for reasons to accept, not to deny.</p>
<p>Hey Reddune - thanks for pointing that out. I just saw THIS too:
Students whose native language is not English are required to take EITHER the TOEFL (Test of English as a Foreign Language) or the SAT I if taken after March 2005.</p>
<p>However, I submitted both already (how stupid am I??)...my native language obviously is not English.
So what should I do now? Do you think they will ignore the lower score? Should I call them? hmhm
Dumb...</p>
<p>Just call them and ask. I don't think any of us can quantify the weight between TOEFL and SAt for your case with Harvard. </p>
<p>And about the "how poor am I?" It was sarcastic joke that if you're from a low-income family, your TOEFL "might" be weighted more than your SAT verbal. Nothing else was implied.</p>
<p>Yeah, well I was just saying, I probably did not have to submit the SAT, but I was stupid enough to do..hmhm. I am confused haha.</p>
<p>@ Umass</p>
<p>Your scores aren't the only thing that they will look at, I wouldn't worry too much. There isn't much you can do now. But to say that they have no reason why they would reject you otherwise will only disappoint you more if you do not get accepted.</p>
<p>There are people are Harvard who have their own company, represented their country in a sport, written books, and many more unbelievable talents at our age. Your results look good, but it will look 'normal' amongst the many of the other applicants.</p>
<p>I dont mean to put you down, but the transfer pool will be very tough. Play it as if you do not get accepted, and if you do, then thats a bonus. That is my mentality atm, this way, I will still concentrate on all of my studies here at Columbia.</p>
<p>Did most of you apply to Harvard because you really want to go there or because you really want to leave wherever it is that you are? I definitely fall into the first category. Harvard is the only place I could possibly leave Columbia for, and it's the only school I applied to for transfer. What about all of you?</p>
<p>Why would you leave Columbia? <em>envy</em></p>
<p>Applied to Harvad, Yale, and Columbia. Although, considering that a pick-ax to the face is a preferrable option to spending another year at my current university, I really ought to have applied to a few safeties. Oh, well...I can always hope that all three schools are short on film studies majors. Or that I get recurited as the extremely talented hopscotch player that I am.</p>
<p>When do the offer/rejection letter start to get sent out?</p>
<p>Good luck everybody! Is anybody willing to share their essays/answers to the app questions?</p>
<p>Does Harvard notify us if we are missing stuff in our application?</p>
<p>Dunno, still don't have my PIN. Really interesting stuff ending so cooly!Anyway I'm also an intenational transfer from Ghana, Africa. SAT scores not great;1930 and 2110.College GPA 3.9, Most rigorouscourse, 18 credits 4 labs, no intros.Talk about da extracurricular stuff,I would say it's almost not here. Are internationals also going to be in the dsme pool with you guys?You would surely crush us down.honestly i knew next 2 nothing aba da SAT n i never bothered to take it again after a bad preparation. How would they take my CR550 n w690 with an 11 essay. I was totally knew to ur type of critical reading. Good luck to all of us!We might never know..</p>
<p>My Scores were: 740,740,640- do you think they're decent for transferring to Harvard ?</p>