Official Scholarship Thread

<p>Chibears, you make good points, I'll admit, but I think the biggest issue here is the fact that U-M is a public school, not a private one. Even if the state's current contribution is only 15-20 percent, U-M was founded for the purpose of serving the citizens of Michigan. UIUC and UIC were founded for the purpose of serving the citizens of Illinois. Michigan is currently in a downturn in economic standpoint so it cannot necessarily fund U-M with as much money as it would like. However, in previous years, the state funded them quite well. </p>

<p>I certainly think that better qualified applicants always deserve good scholarships, and it doesn't seem like the truly deserving are going unwarranted even if they're OOS. LadyinRed for example is basically getting a full ride or close to it, and she's OOS. I think your argument is more based on bitterness for not having gotten a scholarship from U-M while being an OOS student. Know that many many many students who are excellent in stats and whatnot don't get scholarships for various reasons i.e. some are need-based, donors have special requirements, etc. </p>

<p>I must concur with dsmo.</p>

<p>Question: If we haven't received a scholarship notice by now, then we won't, will we?</p>

<p>Sorry zoogies, but i dont think so.</p>

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I don't care what you say, but I think that scholarship money should be used to keep top residents from heading out-of-state.

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I've always loved how rational and well-spoken we are here on CC...

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It's great for OOS kids to go to Michigan, but I don't see why the school should be bending over backwards to bring them here.

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I agree, and I'm not asking anyone to bend over backwards, just give equitable treatment to those who deserve it.

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Michigan is currently in a downturn in economic standpoint so it cannot necessarily fund U-M with as much money as it would like. However, in previous years, the state funded them quite well.

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My sources say state funding has been decreasing fairly steadily for the last couple decades, independent of economic circumstances. Correct me if I'm wrong on this.

[quote]
I certainly think that better qualified applicants always deserve good scholarships, and it doesn't seem like the truly deserving are going unwarranted even if they're OOS. LadyinRed for example is basically getting a full ride or close to it, and she's OOS. I think your argument is more based on bitterness for not having gotten a scholarship from U-M while being an OOS student.

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Who's to determine who the "truly deserving" are? I'll quickly concede that this university's MOST DESERVING applicants usually get great packages, just like ladyinred, because she's a stellar applicant. The problem is, this is a very small group of individuals for OOS (around 100 or so), and there are still very many extremely qualified OOS'ers that don't get scholarships like Regents simply because they're OOS, even if they're more qualified than in-staters. Secondly, was I really being that transparent? OH MAN! I knew you guys would catch me! It's true, I'm just REEEEEEAAALLY BITTER at the university for not giving me merit aid. Oh wait....<em>glances over at 4-year math departmental scholarship</em>, that's right, I'm getting merit aid from this school. I love how people on these boards jump to conclusions without the facts. The math department recognized it even if the university as a whole didn't, but I'm not arguing from personal experience, I'm arguing from an objective standpoint, trying to get some justice in here and make this school somewhere ability and not birthplace is rewarded and compassion is given to those who have to pay the most. I'm not so selfish and whiny as to start a debate simply because I felt like a victim. I'll leave that to the white Michigan resident with a 27 ACT and 3.6 GPA whose teachers really liked him and who <em>really deserved</em> to get in but big bad Affirmative Action gave his spot to a Detroit public schools product.</p>

<p>keeler or huntington?</p>

<p>Wait so, excluding like Regents how do u get other scholarships like do they just send u if u recieved one or can u actually apply 2 them?</p>

<p>
[quote]
I'm arguing from an objective standpoint, trying to get some justice in here and make this school somewhere ability and not birthplace is rewarded and compassion is given to those who have to pay the most. I'm not so selfish and whiny as to start a debate simply because I felt like a victim. I'll leave that to the white Michigan resident with a 27 ACT and 3.6 GPA whose teachers really liked him and who <em>really deserved</em> to get in but big bad Affirmative Action gave his spot to a Detroit public schools product.

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</p>

<p>That's wonderful that you're trying to increase "equity" at Michigan by arguing that OOS students deserve to get scholarships just like students who get in from In state do just because they're in state. But wait, what's this?</p>

<p>
[quote]
Regents Merit Scholarship<br>
$1,500 (non renewable)
525 awarded </p>

<pre><code>* Merit
* Entering freshman from a Michigan high school

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</code></pre>

<p>It is certainly not JUST because you're in state that you get this award, however meager it is. Several friends of mine were accepted into Michigan with great stats/grades, but not enough to get a Regents Scholarship which I think you need around a 33+ ACT and 4.0 UM GPA plus good application essays. I emphasize again it is NOT JUST because one is in-state that one gets this award.</p>

<p>Also, I personally feel you are not knowledgeable on scholarships despite your merit award. If you were, you would know that scholarships are usually privately funded (not Regents but many) and thus the donor's requirements = the donor's requirements. If the donor only wants students with two left feet and from the state of Illinois to get the money, only those qualifying will have a chance at it. In terms of public funds, as the Regents Scholarship is, there are several scholarships offered only to out of state students to cover the hefty expense. </p>

<p>
[quote]

Michigan Scholar Award (MSA)<br>
$5,000 per year for 4-5 years (depending on program of study)<br>
Number Awarded: Varies</p>

<pre><code>* Merit-based
* Non-Michigan resident
* Recipient contributes to the overall excellence and diversity of the University community (with a particular focus on students from underrepresented minority groups or underrepresented geographic areas)
</code></pre>

<p>Yes, max. 8 terms standard, max. 9 terms Engineering

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</p>

<p>There are also many PRIVATE scholarships ONLY for OOS students.</p>

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</p>

<ul>
<li>John J. and Mary C. O'Leary Scholarship</li>
<li>Richard and Susan Rogel Scholarship (Award of Excellence)</li>
<li>Ralph and Elsie Colton Scholarship (Award of Excellence)</li>
<li>Selig D. Lesnoy Scholarship

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</li>
</ul>

<p>Don't complain that there aren't sources of money for other OOS students besides yourself, that's great you got that Math scholarship. With a little research and legwork, anyone can find out about these scholarships. In addition, if you want to offset costs at U-M, you can always always apply for non-university scholarships from various sources including Coca-Cola Scholarship, Toyota Scholarship, Davidson Fellows, entering the Siemens Westinghouse Competition, etc etc. If OOS students are so well-qualified as you assume/state, why don't they apply for these or other scholarships? They shouldn't have too much trouble if they apply for a lot of them and work hard on the essays.</p>

<p>I know many students who are in-state that have never received a dime from Michigan, even though they were quite well qualified. Your comment about affirmative action is kind of irrelevant to this topic so I'll ignore it for now. But overall I want to say that there is money out there if you want it...especially OOS students admitted to Michigan. You just have to dig a little. Good luck.</p>

<p>I think chibears argument is that to offset the huge disparity in tuition costs for in-state vs out-of-state students, merit scholarships solely for OOS are justified. That is, as a university dedicated to education, Michigan ought to be equally accessible to everyone, regardless of their residency. Both in-staters and out-of-staters have access to non-university scholarships that stanford_dude mentioned. They both have access to a number of university merit scholarships - Shipman, LSA, Engineering etc. But out-of-staters have to pay more than double the cost of in-staters, which gives Michigan residents increased accessibility. Chibears' solution is to provide extra merit aid for out-of-state... </p>

<p>But the playing field does seem relatively equalized anyway considering that Michigan does take residency into account when deciding how much money to give. LSA scholarships, for example, are $20 K OOS but only $10 K IS. The Michigan Scholar Award is a relatively significant schol (20 K over 4 years) and it's only for OOS. To me, it doesn't seem like Mich isn't favoring in-staters (in terms of merit schols) at all even with the Regents Scholarship. It's just not a significant award; so it doesn't make much of a difference....</p>

<p>PS - I feel special being considered a "stellar applicant" :)</p>

<p>You know, I'm hating UM more and more. I just want a scholarship? How dare they not offer me, with my 2290 SAT, and amazing SATII scores, and amazing GPA a scholarship? If they only saw my ap scores, but no, they don't care.</p>

<p>maguo1, I hope you're being sarcastic. I have a 2400SAT, and no scholarship. (Granted, you were probably accepted earlier, but nevertheless) It's no reason to hate UM. Might make it imposible to attend, but tough luck there. Besides, didn't you consider yourself above UM anyways?</p>

<p>I hope maguo's being sarcastic as well. I had a higher SAT and higher or equal SAT II's (which Michigan doesn't consider) and applied in October. Despite that, I still wasn't as good of an applicant as students like LadyinRed or tetrahedr0n. That's just how it goes guys, no matter how good you are, there's going to be someone better. Unless you're the best, but none of us on this thread are.

[quote]
Also, I personally feel you are not knowledgeable on scholarships despite your merit award...Don't complain that there aren't sources of money for other OOS students besides yourself, that's great you got that Math scholarship. With a little research and legwork, anyone can find out about these scholarships. In addition, if you want to offset costs at U-M, you can always always apply...

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Stanforddude, I really don't know where you think you're justified in assessing my knowledge of scholarships, especially when I never uttered a falsehood regarding them. Anyone wth my amount of posts on CC is bound to know quite a bit about scholarships, ESPECIALLY at the school they attend; and if you continue to see my arguments as me complaining as an OOS'er that I'm paying too much money, you're going to miss my points entirely, so please start reading without that filter in front of your eyes. I'm perfectly fine with what I'm paying to go here (I'm attending despite full ride offers elsewhere, aren't I?). I have no personal beef with how aid money is given except that I think there are scholarships (not private, which I obviously have no grounds to argue against, and which, despite stanforddude's unfounded inferences, I have never attacked) that treat out-of-staters unfairly. I say this not on the grounds of personal experience, but of justice and equality. You guys (stanford and ladyindred) mentioned some scholarships that just go to out-of-staters or some scholarships that give more to out-of-staters, but like ladyinred said, these scholarships are justified since the tuition is more than double that of in-state, but the problem is that there are so few of them, and many require URM status or some other special condition (like MSA that stanford posted). No award like regents, which is a small, entirely merit-based award given to a ton of people (relative to Shipman, etc) exists for out-of-staters, those who need it most. The main point is this: if we look at scholarships from non-private donors, the amount of purely merit-based scholarship moeny available to in-staters and out-of-staters is quite disproportional to their relative tuition rates. In my opinion, that's a big problem.
And sonar, it's the Keeler award. That's the math department's main scholarship, the only one that's given over 4 years (like I stated mine was). Huntington is just a one-shot thing, but I think I'll win that this year.</p>

<p>
[quote]
But the playing field does seem relatively equalized anyway considering that Michigan does take residency into account when deciding how much money to give. LSA scholarships, for example, are $20 K OOS but only $10 K IS. The Michigan Scholar Award is a relatively significant schol (20 K over 4 years) and it's only for OOS. To me, it doesn't seem like Mich isn't favoring in-staters (in terms of merit schols) at all even with the Regents Scholarship. It's just not a significant award; so it doesn't make much of a difference....

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<p>I understand what he's saying and I don't agree. Thank you for stating that it doesn't make much of a difference for IS students, because it really doesn't. Congrats on your scholarship though, you will definitely be a great student if you choose Michigan! Way to go.</p>

<p>
[quote]
The main point is this: if we look at scholarships from non-private donors, the amount of purely merit-based scholarship moeny available to in-staters and out-of-staters is quite disproportional to their relative tuition rates. In my opinion, that's a big problem.

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</p>

<p>The point of offering scholarships like Regents is to keep outstanding students from the state of Michigan from leaving to greener pastures i.e. Ivy Leagues, Stanford, MIT, etc. A one time award of 1500 dollars would maybe be enough for books for one year. It is close to nothing. LadyInRed brings up a good point, U-M does give more money for the same scholarship for OOS students. Is this fair? The IS student and OOS student who got the scholarship (merit) should have roughly equal stats/activities/essays right? Equal meaning they were impressive enough to the adcoms that they were offered X scholarship. So, with roughly equal credentials, U-M is discriminating against IS students because they know OOS students need it more. In a regular scholarship competition (merit), most donors/sponsors would give equal amounts of money for equal credentials be they test scores, grades, ECs, essays, etc. </p>

<p>OOS students, if they're qualified enough to get X scholarship, will get X scholarship + a little more because they're OOS. How many IS students apply to U-M and how many OOS students apply? I would say there needs to be more merit funding for bright IS students since more of them usually apply. Let's face it, most students outside of the Midwest and East <em>tend</em> not to apply to Michigan because they don't know much about it or other reasons. Thus, more IS students apply, which I am sure hoedown could verify for you. Typically, a class at Michigan has 1/3 OOS (which is a predetermined percentage I think) to 2/3 IS. Obviously, there are fewer OOS students at Michigan and hence fewer source of merit funding. You're a math major, that makes sense doesn't it? </p>

<p>I really don't understand why you're getting into a fit about U-M giving 1500 dollars for ONE YEAR for having outstanding scores/GPA/ECs. From my experience, a 33+ ACT / 1530+ SAT and 3.9+ U-M GPA is usually required for the Regents Scholarship. There are more IS merit funding for a reason; there are more IS students, and by logic, more than likely there will be more NUMBER of highly qualified IS students. In the context of the IS population at U-M, it's probably equal with OOS merit funding in terms of percentage of admitted pool who get them. </p>

<p>This argument is really a moot point because we're arguing over how to best allocate merit funding based on residency. Michigan is a public school, plain and simple. Even if state funding is 0.00000005 percent, it has a vested interest in producing well trained in-state grads because in-state grads tend to stay in-state having ties with family and home. Better in-state grads can only help the state economy which isn't doing too well right now. Why should Michigan care about the state economy if the state isn't funding them as much? It's located in Ann Arbor, MI, and I don't think that's going to change any time soon. Anything that happens to Michigan will affect the university directly or indirectly in some way. For example, higher unemployment means fewer people with insurance to pay for medical treatment; U-M Hospital's revenue is a big asset to Michigan. Another example, people who don't have jobs usually don't spend money too quickly especially on "frivolous" things like athletic games. Athletic ticket revenues are a huge asset as well to Michigan. I can't give you exact numbers but I am sure they would be a big blow to Michigan's budget if Michigan's economy continues spiraling down as it is now.</p>

<p>So, overall, Michigan DOES have a vested interest in the state for more than altruistic reasons; its budget will be hurt badly if it doesn't contribute to helping the state grow and rebuild itself. This is why keeping strong IS students in state and giving them more merit aid is a better idea than attracting OOS students who may or may not stay in Michigan. OOS students add to the diversity at Michigan, and may perhaps bring strong qualifications, but they certainly shouldn't be sought after. U-M does more than enough for OOS students, in my humble opinion. I await your rebuttal.</p>

<p>
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To me, it doesn't seem like Mich isn't favoring in-staters (in terms of merit schols) at all even with the Regents Scholarship.

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</p>

<p>haha..wow...that sentence needs to be editted...
"is" not "isn't"</p>

<p>maguo....clearly merit scholarships aren't based solely on numerical stats. My best M/V SAT score was a 1540, which is good, but certainly nothing compared to say, zoogies' 2400. I'm positive there's a lot more that goes into it...ECs, essays, timing, luck(?). How much an individual "deserves" a scholarship isn't necessarily quantifiable. Honestly, if your application in any way reflected your arrogant attitude about Michigan, I don't see why they would offer you a scholarship.</p>

<p>I really feel like my "rubutal" is going to be re-hasing the old stuff. When you say Michigan is being "unfair" to the in-state student by giving them more money, you're basing fairness purely on how much money they are giving rather than the percentage of the education they're paying for, which is a much more valid statistic. If we're talking about fairness in THAT context, then technically Michigan is being unfair to the OOS applicant, but since it's so close, I don't have much of a problem with it. It's a lot of money either way.</p>

<p>Also, when I was saying michigan was giving more scholarship funds to in-staters relative to tuition costs, I meant per capita. I thought you would have easily inferred this, but I guessed wrong. Obviously the argument holds no water if I'm talking about pure numbers because you are correct in saying we're 2/3 in-staters, so yeah I mean per capita when I say in-staters have more scholarship money relative to their tuition costs.</p>

<p>How about this stanforddude: If Michigan has such a vested interest in the state economy and still owes it to itself to be nicer to in-staters regardless of state funding, then tell me about admission and financial aid preferences Harvard and MIT give to Mass. residents, and then tell me about all the in-state scholarships that exist relative to out-of-state scholarships. Clearly if schools have such a vested interest in the state surrounding, these sorts of things would be quite common at private schools, but alas, they are not.</p>

<p>You shouldn't just list examples of universities which are clearly out of the ordinary to prove your case. They don't even give out scholarships, for God's sake, and theoretically there should be no such thing as "financial aid preference" by region. What is that, anyways? On the other hand, Duke University, for example, offers the Trinity Leadership Scholars program and the Benjamin N. Duke scholarship, which are only offered to students who live in the Carolinas. Off the top of my head...WashU also has a scholarship for area residents...There's one at Emory as well, for students who live in Atlanta. Tulane has a whopping six scholarships for Louisiana residents. Yeah, I would say they're pretty common if you take the time to look beyond Harvard and MIT.</p>

<p>Thanks, darkamaranth, that's a good point to make. Michigan may be a very strong school, but it is no Harvard or MIT -- undergraduate-wise. You're comparing apples and oranges. Private schools don't usually give in-state residents an advantage in any way because they cost the same for a student from anywhere. And, besides, those particular schools only offer need-based aid...which is not the topic of our conversation, right? Duke and Emory are different in that respect.</p>

<p>Also, 525 scholarships to in-state students out of a pool of perhaps 13,000 is absolutely a drop in the bucket, with 1500 apiece. That's really the point I'm trying to drive through -- it's not much, and really an insult to the qualifications of the students who get it. Those who get it are usually quite strong students, and would probably receive much more money somewhere else besides Michigan. I think the bigger issue is...why isn't U-M taking some money from its HUGE endowment to fund scholarships for both OOS and IS students? The President is one of the most well-paid public university presidents in the country. WHY? As a university official, shouldn't you be trying to encourage better students by funding more scholarships and increasing financial aid? I am sure that U-M probably could spend more money on merit aid and attract/keep students regardless of residency.</p>

<p>Perhaps that should be the cause for protest, moreso than this issue we're quibbling about.</p>

<p>I got the $1500, it's no insult to me. I'll take whatever they give me.</p>

<p>To those students who get merit aid from michigan, they probably aren't considering schools like Duke and Emory as much as they are the Ivies and MIT. The only shipman scholars I know got in to one of HYPSM and weren't considering Duke, Emory, etc. In my case, I didn't get Shipman or any merit award from the university at large, but I was waitlisted at Harvard and MIT, so it seems I fell just short for both prizes (shipman and admission to HM), and it seems that those two honors are about equally as selective. So we're talking here about people who get merit aid from Umich. Most students in the top 3rd of umich's class could get inito schools like Duke, Tufts, and Emory, but when we restrict our conversation to merit aid recipients, HYPSM become the peer institutions.</p>

<p>No, I'm not being sarcastic. On the shipman website, it says that the main consideration are numbers. So, I don't understand why Zoogies isn't getting anything. I just want money. Why would I go to UM, which costs me 37000 a year, over UFL, which is only about 2000 a year for me? And UM's sports teams can't even win anymore. I think UM is crazy. LadyinRed, do you have a hook that we don't know about(being really poor, black, Hispanic, one leg, leukemia patient, daughter of Mary Sue Coleman)?
And why does everybody here write so much? I don't have the time to read through all this.</p>

<p>I don't know who makes the selections for Shipman Scholars, but my guess is that stats is only a sort of wait to get into the picture, but things like essays make or break it. I could be wrong.</p>

<p>haha..how about over-represented minority, upper middle class, all four limbs, no traumatizing illnesses...umm..hmm..my state is probably underrepresented though..</p>

<p>there was another 2400 who posted here who didn't receive a Shipman nomination...numbers may be the main consideration, but they certainly aren't the only one. I think my stats prove that.</p>

<p>as far as "wanting money"...have you applied for financial aid? In my opinion, Michigan is probably worth the extra 17K per year over UFL. I'm not sure what the issue is...Michigan's peers are pretty much indisputably Chicago, Cornell, Duke, UPenn and the like...Would you be expecting merit aid from them as well?</p>