Every family has to do their own cost-benefit analysis of pursuing BS/MD path or the traditional path.
BS/MD programs, by nature, are expensive as only a few colleges offer any kind of merit aid.
The advantage of these programs is guaranteed seat in med school - potentially with a shortened undergrad (for accelerated programs) and without the need of gap years (which 60% of students take to strengthen their profile) or in some cases without MCAT and in most cases with “lower” MCAT requirements.
My analysis (which I had shared in last year’s forum) is that the “extra” cost of BS/MD more or less pays for itself - if you factor the 1 or 2 gap years students pursuing the traditional path take.
However, the upfront financial outlay is high and can be a deciding factor for many families.
It’s your call - whether you want to apply to more or less BS/MD programs and are ok with going the traditional route (along with its risks but potentially lower costs).
In the specific cases of UCinn and UConn, these programs have a strong in-state and/or regional biases. You may want to factor that in your decision making process.
Yes, agree with @NoviceDad. One needs to factor in the chances of getting in too for deciding where to apply. As an example consider Rice/Baylor with only 6 seats available for ?? number of applicants or Brown PLME with 10 times that many but hardly takes any ORMs.
Also one needs to factor in how many traditional route applications they are going to submit. Whether to go all out for BS/MD - and perhaps go to local state university if it doesn’t work out (as some in this forum had chosen to do in the past few cycles) - or have a balance between the two, in which case one needs to cap the BS/MD applications to a comfortable limit.
I am not able to follow your last post and connect the dots.
UofA and ASU don’t offer BS/MD programs. If you are saying since got aid for UG, why wasting time in applying to BS/MD, then it is your choice.
Most of the students who are applying for BS/MD will get admission in any Top50 colleges and will get either need or merit aid.
Agree with @rk2017 and @NoviceDad in the above posts. Let me add few points for the benefit of new comers. It is just my views and every one may have their own view.
If there is any concern either for applying or taking test, then seriously re-think about medicine career. Taking MCAT is just another exam and that should not be a determinant. Then comes USMLE Steps exams, board exams and the list goes for ever. Application cycle, now, next MD app, next residence app, then fellowship app. Each app is extremely horrible in terms of the process and the amount of efforts, time, money and anxiety.
Just an hour back met a parent with a concern. Waiting for the anxious mid Dec to know the results. Guess what, her Son went to CalTech for UG, gap years, USC for MD & Residency. Now going thru fellowship app process, and exhausted with residency and travelling to attend interviews and waiting for unknown till Mid-Dec. That kid will fly thru but still both students and parents will go thru this long process in this career.
Just scoring well in tests and having a good GPA does not guarantee you for MD admission later. Unless student has done all other things during the first 3 years itself, otherwise invariably will end up in taking gap years. So a reasonable BS/MD program even if you have to take MCAT, avoids that if you are keen on not taking gap year.
Invariably most of the kids are very capable to get 510-515 and can score > 515-525 with intense efforts. Except for Wash U, I feel all other programs are doable if the student continues the current focus.
Never felt it is critical to worry about IS vs OOS for BS/MD programs. Invariably except for few, most of the programs admit any where 5-10. With such a low count, student need to be very strong to get thru. The admission is a super competitive and crap shot. It is not because of OOS you got tripped. It is because of some other students who are super good than you in that particular schools admission criteria.
Not sure what exactly to expect from NJIT Albert Dorman Honors program for BS/MD. I guess it will be shorter version (15-30 mins max) of the next phase NJMS interview, if invited. But following are some of the aspects these programs try to assess and understand the students’ perspectives, in no particular order of importance and may only deal with a subset or a super set.
Why medicine? Why so early in life? They are trying to figure out if the motivation is really coming from the student or the influence of parents, peer comparison, prestige, money etc. are driving factors.
Why this program? Trying to assess if the student has done enough homework on their program and what attracted them to apply there and the fit for their academic culture and if they will come if offered admission.
Delve into the ECs. Medical or non medical or research. Trying to assess if there was any interest and enthusiasm into choosing and doing them or was done merely to tick off the check lists of things to do to impress. Trying to assess the student as a person. Asking about any interesting experiences in these, if any. This is the time to convey your enthusiasm and excitement. Asking questions such as what improvements you would like to bring about in what you observed and if had contributed in any such.
Assess the general personality of the student. Will he or she be an effective communicator and perhaps even in the role as a guide or philosopher when having to deal with patients in future? or more like the nerdy scientist types who can only communicate with fellow peers.
If any life experiences you may have quoted in your essays, they try to get deeper sense than what can be put on the paper in a limited space.
Some programs try to assess the smartness of the students overall. Just as every profession trying to recruit the smartest of the crop into their fold. To this end they have interviews with not only the medical faculty but also others such as arts or science faculty. They don't expect you to know the answers but just like to know your line of thought and reasoning.
Some deep questions which may need some thought such as about the current and general state of affairs in medicine, so don't hesitate to ask for a minute or two to pause and ponder before coming up with a meaningful answer. Should not be answered in a haste.
I think the best way to prepare for the interviews is to think as much as possible and revise and ruminate your experiences and background and perspectives ahead of the interview and as they say, be yourself at the interview. It is important to go to the interview with a clear mind. Don’t try too much to over impress which can act counter productive. If not sure how to answer something (even after pausing and pondering) don’t be shy to say the same that either that you don’t have an idea or haven’t thought about it earlier, they like frankness and openness.
You may want to go over some tips put together by the senior members here in the previous year thread by searching for key words like interview, tips, suggestion etc.
Rutgers has an extensive three-step interview process. First, there is an invitation-based phone interview, after which you are either recommended or not recommended to the medical school. From there, NJMS decides whether to offer you an in-person interview or not.
Last year, I received notification that I had been selected for a phone interview on Dec 12. I received notification that my application had been forwarded to the medical school on Jan 24. I received my NJMS interview offer on Jan 24 as well :).
Feel free to ask for tips on any of the interviews (or any other programs I applied for or interviews I attended). Be aware that the in-person Rutgers/NJMS interview is a stress interview.
@ramen2020
Stress interview are usually one-on-one or panel interviews designed to create conditions that stress the student. They are testing the maturity and acumen of the student under pressure.
@ramen2020 For NJMS specifically it’s a 90ish minute interview with a guy from the medical school who helped found the program. The room is tiny, doesn’t have a clock, and overlooks a dreary part of Newark. The interview itself consists of the doctor trying to convince you not to join a BSMD program through various means. I personally am not a proponent of the way they handled professionality in interviews – my interviewer circled a line in my essay in red, turned it around to me, and asked me “what the hell is this?” somewhat aggressively. I was at a loss for words.
@Cherax Thanks for the post and sharing the interview scenario.
It is hard to know why it was structured this way. Is it by design or this individual an outlier, who knows?
Is it to find an individual who handles the difficult situation or to expose this is how the reality during the residency or you may face some difficult patients?
There are always odd balls and they create a major perception issue in any profession. See y’day article on IHS and how sad few doctors so unprofessional and get hired though they are disqualified since there is so much shortage of doctors in IHS.
Though majority of the situation the interview and receptions are very cordial, once an interviewer concluded within the first 9 minutes itself the student is not a fit and wrapped the interview.
Control what we can do best and move on. Happy UConn found the value in you. 23 is your magic number, especially for a medical profession.
I would say even such a short interview is an outlier. Even if the interviewer has a strong feeling that the student is not a “fit”, meaning not yet and would need time to mature in course of time, usually they give them around half an hour or so just to make sure they hadn’t jumped to the conclusion too soon.
Yes, at most places the interviewers are cordial and professional and listen to the student attentively. Also the student should grab the initiative to ask him or her questions about the program, their fields or anything else they could not have gotten info about otherwise or share anything which may be of interest to the interviewer (like for example about a book or article you may have read that pertains to their background). That’s why I had mentioned earlier that one should go to the interview with a clear and open mind.
Child had two interviews at her favorite program, were expected to last half an hour each. The first one in the morning was with a college of arts faculty member which went as per schedule and finished in 30 minutes. The one in the afternoon with a med school professor went for almost an hour.
@rk2017 ,@GoldrenRock ,@NoviceDad - Thankyou all for the detailed comment.Appreciate the feedback.
Regarding the MCAT, Now I am able to understand the details that even EAP guarantees less stress compare to the other traditional route and need not wait during the Gap year.
D was totally stressed with the whole application process and thought we would stop with what we have applied so far last week.
After reading the comments she made up her mind to apply for both UConn and Cincinnati and try it out.
As you all mentioned in the previous posts we are encouraging to apply but to keep the expectations low and we are happy that she has fall back option with UofA Honors for undergrad.
It is best that you process the information on these forums and only pass on the filtered and necessary information to your children. Don’t let them feel stress or pressure.
For students reading these, consider out sourcing this function to your parents, elder siblings and well wishers while you focus on your studies and enjoying the last year of high school.
@Somo2020
I hope your D has made progress with SPIM and connections program apps. Both have supplememtal apps with specific essays and recommendations to be uploaded by recommenders.
Last minute bsmd college adds can be v stressful. Good luck.
Please note - if there is a stress interview, it is by design.
Though not as prevalent, I have observed atleast 1 college (not necessarily the same) doing it in the past 3 cycles.
I tell my counselees and parents to prepare for one-on-one, panel, group, stress and MMI interviews.
Agree with @rk2017, parents should be judicious what info to filter out before sharing with their child.
BS/MD admissions are roller-coaster rides and it can get depressing especially when you hear folks getting interview calls and you do not.
From Expectations Perspective These programs are having very few openings and selection criteria is not clear from program to program, folks from last year forums have got interview from HPME and did not get one from lower ranked programs.
Again ranking is subjective Which is questioned by the smart kids so as a parent how do I rank and set expectations for high performing kid for the below list of 7 programs. (Ranking on with the point and on chances and odds of getting In )
Rice Baylor 5 Has waitlist
Baylor Baylor 5 Has waitlist
HPME-20 has wait list but very few get a chance may be one or two