<p>Here's one for all of you. I'm pretty good at making distinctions, but a friend (who's looking to transfer) asked me about some Ohio schools. I'm a little stumped.</p>
<p>What are the pros or cons about:</p>
<p>Ohio State University
Miami University-Oxford
Ohio University
University of Cincinnati</p>
<p>How do these schools compare? Any advice that I can pass along to her?</p>
<p>TIA.</p>
<p>Ohio State: It's big, which can be a good or a bad thing. There's more research going on here than at any of the other schools (probably combined). It's relatively cheap if in state, but can be kind of expensive for out of state (but all the ones on this list are going to be expensive out of state). It's pretty diverse socially. Its reputation is increasing overall and it is probably the best school for most majors that you have on this list. It's located in a major city, but definitely has a campus feel.</p>
<p>Miami: The two main complaints are 1) it's in the middle of no where and 2) the kids who go to miami are more stuck up and mean than average. Both of these are true to an extent, but obviously not true for everyone. Miami is decently close to major cities and not ALL kids are stuck up (but when I visited, there were enough to turn me off to the campus).</p>
<p>OU: It's good if you are going into Journalism or Communications or something else like that (I think their English is good too, but don't quote me.). If you aren't going into that, OU is going to be way too costly to be worth your (well, your friend's) time.</p>
<p>UC: Just don't go here. It's in the middle of the ghetto, it doesn't have a good reputation, and it's not amazingly cheap either.</p>
<p>Some general characterstics/opinions:</p>
<p>Ohio State: large flagship research university, diverse campus, urban setting. Strong in traditional arts and sciences, engineering and business. Higher stature of faculty than at Miami but their time is divided among undergrads, grads and research.</p>
<p>Miami: not necessarily small but has a small college feel, college town setting, unfortunate lack of diversity, half the students major in business or education, preppy/greek reputation is not without some merit but tends to be overblown, doesn't have the National Academy type of faculty as Ohio State but Miami's professors tend to be very committed to undergraduate teaching.</p>
<p>Ohio: party school, located in small town Appalachia, well regarded journalism school but considered average for everything else, much easier to get into than above two, serious recent questions about university leadership (both student government and faculty senate have given "no confidence votes" to current prez) 4 out of 5 students probably would have preferred to have gone to Miami or Ohio State had they been accepted.</p>
<p>Cincinnati: urban, rough part of town, larger research oriented university, outstanding school for architecture, design or music, so-so for most other programs, Like Ohio, considerably easier to get into than Ohio State or Miami</p>
<p>Well as a ohio resident, having friends at all of these, and contemplating OSU, let me shed some light.</p>
<p>OSU: Huge. Absolutely just big man. Big on partying, but academically the most prestigious/challenging of the four. Great engineering and buisness schools. Right outside of a bad part of columbus, but the campus is reasonably safe</p>
<p>Miami: Contrary to common belief, as some have said on this thread, its really not in the middle of no where. Sure, its surrounded by cornfields, but its like a 30 min drive to downtown cinci or dayton. Plus Oxford is a gorgeous town. Absolutely dank parties, and completely safe/beautiful/amazing campus. Fairly good academics and prestige, mostly in education/buisness careers</p>
<p>OU: Beautiful campus, but this one really is kinda in the middle of no where. Its like a bunch of bars in athens, and then cornfields. The parties here are insane. That should be a major there, because the friends i have don't study anything but how to better do keg stands. Decent buisness program.</p>
<p>UC: Other than daap (or however u spell it :D) the nursing program, and the conservatory, not great academically (decent engineering/buisness). Social scene is bleak because its not much of a campus. The ABSOLUTE WORST part of town. I personally would not feel safe....but thats just me.</p>
<p>Pretty much for anything, i would go to OSU. If not than miami.</p>
<p>Let me clarify since my daughter attends UC and I attended Ohio State for a while and our friend's two sons attended Ohio University.</p>
<p>Ohio State,as noted above, is the flagship state school in Ohio. Most programs are good,but there are a number of drawbacks:</p>
<ul>
<li>VERY large intro classes. You see the professor on TV!</li>
<li> Impersonal administration and faculty</li>
<li>Not all programs are top notch contrary to what was stated in this thread.</li>
<li>Lots of TAs teaching students</li>
<li>BIG party school that can be very distracting. Sports is almost too huge.</li>
<li>Widely considered one of the best marching bands in not only Ohio but in the US. However, one big drawback is that their marching band consists of only brass and percussion....period.</li>
</ul>
<p>University of Cincinnati, Yes, it is located in a bit unsavory area of Cincinnati. However, on campus and right by campus, crime isn't bad. They have instituted some very good security that seems to be working.</p>
<p>They also have probably the best programs in Ohio and maybe in the country for Design, Art, Architecture and Planning and for music and musical theater and criminal justice and nursing. They also have strong programs in pharmacy, engineering, medicine and law. Other programs are not as good as Ohio State or Miami of Ohio ( for liberal arts) with the exception of the coops noted below.</p>
<p>UC does also have one major unique benefit that NONE of the other Ohio state universities have: Paid coops for many programs. In fact, UC started the whole coop form of education even before Northeastern. They have a LOT of national and international connections for coops. It REALLY is a major benefit for going there. Many kids in many majors get 1.5 years of paid experience as part of their education. I can't overstate how important and beneficial this is, and it helps make the UC tuition a lot cheaper.</p>
<p>Speaking of tuition, any kid with a 3.2 average or better generally gets a Cincinnatus scholarship that is worth at least $2,000 per year (for Ohio residents) and at least $5,000 per year for out-of-state applicants. Thus,the tution tends to be more resonable than most people realize. There is a lot of scholarship money availalble.</p>
<p>Also, there is a LOT to do on campus at UC. They have 10 calendars of events. Maybe some of these aren't applicable to you such as the admission calendar, however, there are lots of events going on. Marching band is superb and provides musical opportunity to many types of instumental activities including woodwinds.</p>
<p>Ohio University: I am biased here. Yes, it is in a beautiful area ,but it is also located in an area that is VERY remove. It is, in my opinion, not as good as either UC or Ohio State in research or in general academics. In fact, it had a huge cheating scandal in their engineering department.</p>
<p>It was rated by Princeton Review as one of the biggest party schools in the country, even beyond Ohio State. My friends tell me that there are LOTs of booze on campus because the school is not near any major city.You do, however, get more individual attention and smaller classes there.</p>
<p>Miami of Ohio. This is widely considered to be the best state university of general liberal arts such as history, english, etc.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Miami of Ohio. This is widely considered to be the best state university of general liberal arts such as history, english, etc.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Not sure that I agree with that at all. Ohio State's liberal arts departments (and subsequently their faculty) definitely have far more national stature than those at Miami. I've linked below the extensive 1995 study by the National Research Council on academic departments. The current USN&WR rankings would show a similar gap between arts and sciences departments at Ohio State and Miami.</p>
<p>NRC</a> Rankings in Each of 41 Areas </p>
<p>I will grant you that Ohio State's professors do have their attention divided between undergrads and their doctoral students, while Miami's are focused almost solely on undergrads. Conversely, one has to consider why those Miami professors ended up at a state university where they're not mentoring the next generation of scholars in their field. Do they like teaching that much or are there perhaps other reasons?</p>
<p>As a history major at Ohio State, let me put it this way. Do you want 50% of the attention from a historian who edits one of the major journals in his field at Ohio State, or do you want 100% of the attention from a historian at Miami of Ohio who has his papers rejected by that journal?</p>
<p>Also, Ohio State students are far more likely to major in the traditional arts and sciences than Miami students. As mentioned above over half of Miami's students major in a business or education related discipline. At Ohio State the top 4 majors and 6 of the top 10 are liberal arts and sciences.</p>
<p>sh60614 notes,"Conversely, one has to consider why those Miami professors ended up at a state university where they're not mentoring the next generation of scholars in their field. Do they like teaching that much or are there perhaps other reasons?"</p>
<p>Response: A while back I met a full professor of Zoology who got his PHD from Yale. I got to know him ,and he was always frustrated that he was teaching at Ohio State and not Yale. I guess that geting positions at these top schools is very hard to get.</p>
<p>Also, I when I noted that Miami of Ohio has the best programs in liberal arts, this is what is believe by most out of state folks and by my friends who lived in Ohio. Whether this is true, I can't say. I can only tell you what the perceptions are.</p>
<p>^^^^^^^^^^</p>
<p>yea i agree, my dad was a polisci teacher there for a couple of years and he said competition is pierce at big public schools like ohio state. He got his ph.d from a top 30 and he said that that wasn't good enough for OSU. </p>
<p>If you check the faculty listing (especially economics) most professors come from top 10 doctoral programs.</p>
<p>No worries, taxguy.</p>
<p>I believe that Miami is a very strong college with a lot of strengths. I just happen to believe, and the NRC, USN&WR and the Gourman Report would back me up on this, that stronger liberal arts departments than Ohio State is not one of those strengths.</p>
<p>As an aside, I did my graduate work at Chicago. I never met a Miami alum doing an arts and sciences doctorate but met numerous Ohio State alums pursuing such goals in Hyde Park.</p>
<p>It just seems to me that--even among those Miami students who do major in the arts and sciences--it's still seen as a pre-professional degree; whereas at Ohio State there seemed to be a much greater commitment to liberal arts education. It's a feeling that I had when talking to high school friends who went to Miami--the the emphasis there was very vocational. Either you majored in business or education or, if you happened to major in the liberal arts, it was solely as a means of getting into law or med school.</p>
<p>Seeing as you have college age children, perhaps it's something that's developed at Ohio State over the last twenty years, but there is a very strong commitment to liberal arts education--and perhaps even more important an enthusiasm for liberal arts education among the undergraduates.</p>
<p>Sh60614, I was solely referring to undergraduate education. I don't know anything about graduate work at Miami of Ohio and probably Ohio State has them beat for most grad programs.</p>
<p>Wow! I'm always amazed by how much people know and how willing they are to help. Thank you for the assistance.</p>
<p>Any thoughts on how progressive each campus is regarding the political bent of the student body? Watching the pundits on cable and reading articles from various media outlets got me thinking...they often summarized that Ohio is four or five different states in one. Do you agree or disagree? How is it on each campus? Are students involved or apathetic? And, how's the red tape?</p>
<p>Again, TIA. :)</p>
<p>Current Miami student. Transferring out. My points are biased, but valuable.
Campus is beautiful. So are the girls.
But optically stimulating is as stimulating as this place gets.
Lots of red tape, administration doesn't seem to care much, if you have a question you better know exactly who to call, because if not you'll get a ton of answering machines and voices on the other end saying "Oh, you'll have to call somewhere else about that. Where? I'm not sure, let me transfer you back to the main switchboard...again."
The liberal arts based courses ("Miami Plan") are easier than your College Prep chemistry in high school, if that's what you're looking for, but most people I know say they can't remember a thing they learned in their Gen Ed classes cause they were so easy.
Professors are happy to help IF you're a major in their department.
Good point: If you want to party, there's no short supply of partying here. Huge greek life and you can get into bars under 21 here. Naturally you can't get served, but there's always someone willing to buy you alcohol. (even if you're a guy). Personally, I think it takes away from the novelty of getting in later, the bars are always swamped and it's impossible to talk to anyone. It's great for dancing though, four different places if you're looking to go dancing.
If you're not into partying... stay away. There are "non-alcoholic" options and programs, but theyre pitifully unattended.
Intramural sports are huge, especially if you go greek.
Don't go near the music or theatre programs unless you're a major. If you're lucky enough to make a choir or show, you won't feel welcome.
Alcohol is big, weed is big socially, adderall comes out of the drinking fountains, not alot of hardcore drugs... though there's supposedly an underground coke trend that I've not yet witnessed in action.
If you go greek hazing is intense at select frats and easy at others, but the big ones are relentless. </p>
<p>Go to OSU</p>
<p>D looked at two of the schools on this list.</p>
<p>From her experience, OSU is much harder to get accepted to than UC DAAP. This was a surprise to us as UC stresses how hard it is to get in to DAAP.</p>
<p>The only similarities I really saw between OSU and UC is that they are both major universities in OH cities on the quarter system. I'm not sure about OSU, but UC is considering switching to a semester system in the next few years.</p>
<p>OSU is huge and spread out, while UC is very condensed with little green space. OSU looks like more of a traditional campus, while UC is a mixture of traditional with modern buildings. I found both these things made OSU much more attractive.</p>
<p>Outside a few programs, UC is considered a "third tier" school. UC does have the co-op advantage.</p>
<p>UC's neighborhood definitely appeared rougher than OSU's neighborhood.</p>
<p>D was not happy that OSU's Union is completely closed for a few years while it is rebuilt. We did not get to eat in OSU's cafeteria, but it appeared to be old-fashioned cafeteria style, while UC's cafeteria was very nice with various "stations".</p>
<p>As far as the Cincinnatus scholarship goes, I've seen several parents reference $5,000 for OOS. Absolutely nothing we've received from the school states this. Everything just says a minimum of $2,000. I'm not saying the other parents are wrong, I think UC is lacking communication skills. For example, D received her Cincinnatus invite a few days after her acceptance was shown online. Her admission letter came several weeks later and was barely legible because they obviously needed a new toner cartridge. That letter was the last thing we have received from UC in the mail, and it came in early January. The only other thing we have received is one email saying that she can apply for housing online after she sends in her deposit. We have not actually received any information on housing. In comparison, hardly a week goes by without some communication from the in-state university that accepted her.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Any thoughts on how progressive each campus is regarding the political bent of the student body?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>General, overall impressions of the four student bodies and the town/region where the school is located.</p>
<p>Ohio State--progressive-liberal with a distinct greek/conservative faction (Columbus is liberal with the surrounding suburbs being moderately republican)
Miami--CONSERVATIVE (SW Ohio is one of the most conservative parts of the country outside the deep South)
UC--apolitical (the city of Cincy isn't as reliably conservative as it used to be, but the metro area is very conservative.)
OU--mostly apolitical with a distinct hippy-liberal element (Athens is a liberal enclave; the surrounding region is either blue collar Democrat or rural conservative republican)</p>
<p>Again, all I can say is "Wow"!</p>
<p>All of you have amazing insight, not only about those schools, but about the feel of each. At the same time, Ohio seems to be able to be most things to most people...I guess anyone can find their niche. :)</p>
<p>I guess the next question is: How do different groups get along on campus? Is the fraternity/sorority system at each school oppressive, so-so, or a minor force on campus (I have, based on the postings, to deduce some of it)?</p>
<p>TIA, again. :)</p>
<p>IsleBoy, at UC, fraternity and soriority coexsit with the rest of the students very well. In fact, they are very community service and school service oriented.</p>
<p>Ohio State, thirty years ago, and this was that long ago, was VERY fraternity and soriority oriented. If you didn't belong to one, it is more of a problem that at UC, In addition Ohio State Fraternities are not as community service oriented. Whether this is true today, I can't say.</p>
<p>sleBoy, is there some reason your friend is stuck on state schools? In-state tuition?
Reason I ask is three private U's in Ohio worth a look: Case Western Reserve, a place whose name makes it sound like it's in Utah, but it's in Cleveland, John Carroll University, also in Cleveland, and the University of Dayton. The Cleveland/Dayton areas might be a better fit for your friend politically and socially. Smaller class sizes (OSU has intro classes with 500 students or more in some cases) and some powerful academic reputations (Case is top 50 USNWR, Dayton 112, JCU is a top-ranked U-Masters) are couple of reasons these schools need to be considered also.</p>
<p>Not sure why she chose those schools...</p>
<p>But, I know she talked with a CWRU representative when they went to Portland and said that the rep seemed a little distracted and answered in 'short, curt sentences'?! Not exactly sure what that means, besides not feeling that she fit what Case was looking for. And, she was pumped about the university.</p>
<p>I tried to tell her not to judge the university by its admissions rep, but the impression stuck.</p>
<p>I'm starting to get curious...</p>
<p>Since my friend is from out-of-state, what gpa differences are there for in-state /out-of-state accepted applicants.</p>
<p>What is the typical in-state requirement vs. out-of-state requirement for the four universities?</p>
<p>Isleboy, I can't speak for the other schools besides UC. However, UC has different admission requirements based on the school(major) of interest. For example, geting into UC overall isn't hard. You probably could get in with about a 1100 ( M and CR) and 3.0 GPA. However, geting into their well known programs is much harder. For example, most DAAP kids had at least a 3.5 overall GPA and 1200+ SATS and many did much better. I should note that UC will admit kids with lower GPA if the SATS are much higher.</p>
<p>CCM,which is the music conservatory, has a wide variety of kids and GPAs.However, they all have strong talent as evidenced by auditions.</p>
<p>Pharmacy and the duel BS/MD programs are very tough to get into. My points is that it varies by major. </p>
<p>Also someone said that OSU is harder to get into that DAAP ( UC's school of Design , Art, Architecture and Planning). From what I have seen this is NOT correct. Overall, OSU is a bit harder than that of UC for admission,but, again, this varies by major.</p>
<p>Frankly, in my opinion, most of the Ohio schools noted here have about the same cache for undergraduate work. I would take UC primarily because of their coop program. I think that having a year and one-half of paid, experience in the field of study ( such as design, engineering, and business) is unbeatable unless you are attending a top ranked school such as University of Chicago or an ivy school. I have met a number of top notch kids who have attended UC specifically for this reason alone. NONE of the other Ohio state universities have the same amount of connections as UC for internships and jobs because it is built-into the UC curriculum for many majors. This also results in, overall, a much lower cost since coops are usually paid engagements.</p>
<p>However, all schools have their own culture/identity etc. that will somewhat vary. Folks need to visit the schools and determine for themselves whether a school is or is not a good fit.</p>