<p>Can't disagree with that. So far, five interviews for me. Nothing except a hold from my CA schools despite being complete pretty early.</p>
<p>I looked at your links, they do back up your info, and unfortunatly my info is in books so I cant post a link.</p>
<p>Incase your interested, the books are U.S. News ultimate guide to medical schools, and Princeton reviews best 168 medical schools.</p>
<p>Both say that the average science gpa is 3.63 and average non science is 3.76.</p>
<p>actually, the princeton review book says the average science gpa is 3.53 and non science is 3.69 (3.61 overall)</p>
<p>the MSAR is generally considered the definitive source for this kind of info, the front of the book as all sorts of graphs and whatnot in it regarding gpa, mcat, and acceptance</p>
<p>Even assuming that the BCPM is 3.63, that's still an average. Half the kids in the country (approximately) have BCPM GPA's lower than that. The crucial threshold has to be a lot lower. 3.5 sounds pretty solid, even by those measures.</p>
<p>It sounds even better if 3.53 or 3.57 is the right number.</p>
<p>Oh, a sixth weakness.</p>
<hr>
<p>6.) Severely screwing up the application, such that AMCAS had to make numerous corrections. My application was marked with 37 gigantic red X marks.</p>
<p>For comparison's sake:</p>
<p>1) MCAT scores</p>
<p>2 and 3) Extremely significant campus extracurriculars and Leadership experiences in them - Unlike BDM, I was heavily, heavily involved on campus, and had leadership experiences in most of my major, long term activities. Further, I had both common and unique positions, so I was able to draw upon many different experiences and to a certain extent tailor my answers about involvement to whom was interviewing me. My involvement included a fraternity, honorary societies for my major and for my leadership/service. I was President of one organization, VP in another (where I'd also held executive board spots for two years - so a total of 3 years as an exec in that organization), had been one of only about 18 Student Ambassadors for the College of Arts & Sciences, and had been one for three years, was on the CAS Curriculum Committee as one of two Student members for two years. I had also been a TA for a class on Leadership.</p>
<p>4) Excellent Interview style and content - Through my involvement, I had many, many opportunities at public speaking, talking about a variety of topics to a variety of audiences in a variety of sizes. It's also part of my personality (and part of the reason why I chose medicine) to enjoy talking to people. I also had learned long ago that you have to brag about yourself in interviews. This is something that a lot of people don't like to do, and while I try to avoid it, I can go as long as I need to extolling my virtues. Part of my success was due to...</p>
<p>5) Good interview preparation and experience - My interviews weren't until the end of/after winter break. I used several days of my break, just preparing for my first interview. The book How to Get into Medical School Today as well as materials I had gotten from my schools Career Services office provided me with well over a 100 common questions asked in interviews. I sat down for several hours and typed out my answers. </p>
<p>Further, I had been through many, many interviews. Most of my involvement had required interviews. My most nerve-wracking one actually came about 3 months before my medical school interviews when I was a semi-finalist for Homecoming Royalty. I had been nominated anonymously so the whole application came as a surprise. The interview was difficult because I had no idea what sort of questions would be asked. But that experience put just enough fear in me to make sure I spent some time preparing.</p>
<p>6) My major and minor - I was a sociology major, and like BDM able to talk fluently about it, and how it would impact me as a physician. To overcome the lack of hard science, I had a minor in Biology - which wasn't a lot, but enough to remove a good portion of doubt.</p>
<p>7) A good personal statement - I'm lucky that my dad is a phenomenal writer, and a great editor, one who can make many things sound much better but without losing the voice of the original author. I was also able to use a theme on my personal statement that I could continue through to my interviews. </p>
<p>8) Good geography - I have residency in a fairly small population state that has a fairly large medical school class (175 spots). The year I applied, ~28% of instate residents were accepted - that's really high. I was also lucky that I attended college in an even smaller state that has a long history of accepting a fair number of OOS residents, especially if they have ties to the state. They also have a significant number of tuition waivers for OOS residents which cover the cost of the difference between OOS and IS tuition - so there is definite dedication to recruiting OOS students. </p>
<p>9) Decent clinical experience - I'll be honest...I got into my clinical experience as a collegian very late - summer after my junior year to be exact. By the time I actually started the volunteering, my senior year had begun. But, I was committed to it, and was performing 3 hours a week and had a minimum 6 month commitment. And by the time I interviewed, I had been at it for 4.5 months. I was able to talk intelligently about it, recognize the limitations, but also the benefits I hadn't expected. </p>
<p>I also had lengthy clinical experience while a HS senior - something I could not put in my applications, but was certainly free to talk about during interviews. These experiences fell in line with the theme of my personal statement. Thus there was a natural progression to them during my interviews.</p>
<p>10) Luck - For one of my interviews at my home state school, I was interviewed by a family practice Doc who had been an Anthropology major in undergrad - he loved that I was a Sociology major, and we instantly bonded over that. The rest of that interview was gold. The second interview at that school was supposed to be a 2 on 1 interview that was closed but due to inclement weather, it turned out to be a 1 on 1 interview with someone who had already seen my file. It was more professional than the previous, but still went very well.</p>
<p>My interview at my current school, harder to tell, but apparently fine.</p>
<p>11) Very good school choices I was competitive based on my MCAT score at every school I applied to, and particularly for the schools I really wanted to attend.</p>
<hr>
<p>Weaknesses</p>
<p>1) Poor grades - especially in science courses - not sure what my BCPM GPA was, but it was taking a huge chunk out of my GPA. Even then, for every A+ I got in a sociology course, there was a B+ in another sociology course that should have been an A.</p>
<p>2) Good, but not great LOR's - I had letters from a sociology prof, my manager at work, the prof I TA'd the leadership class for, the Student Ambassador sponsor, and a Biology prof. Of those, I know that the letters from my manager at work and the prof I TA'd for were phenomenal - but a restaurant manager doesn't have quite the same weight as another person might. The letter from the Soc prof was probably good, but I'd only had her for half a semester (in a large class) when I asked her. We had served together on the A&S Curriculum Committee so I wasn't a total unknown, but compared to the letter she likely would have written had I applied a year later (after another semester in a senior capstone course she was the professor for), this probably was fairly weak.</p>
<p>I have since found out that my A&S Ambassador sponsor, while a great friend and someone who knew me very well, tends to be a poor letter writer. Her style isn't forceful enough, and comes off as only a mild endorsement.</p>
<p>My bio prof was a last minute addition when the Chem professor, who led an honors seminar of 5 people while I was a sophomore, fell off the face of the earth and was unreachable for 6 months. He was my freshman honors cell structure/function prof, and he at least sat down for me for half an hour to get to know me, but this was certainly less than ideal.</p>
<p>3) No research This got me rejected from Michigan State's MD program. I was able to explain it away during interviews by citing that I couldn't find a project that fit my interests as I was hampered by the interests of the Sociology Department - none of which were particularly interested in health issues or science issues.</p>
<p>4) Extremely late submittal of AMCAS - So late in fact that I got an extremely fast turnaround time on my application because I was behind the glut of applications that come in around the time school starts. I submitted my application the first week of October, without knowing my MCAT scores.</p>
<p>5) Very limited number of schools I applied to - I only applied to 7 schools, and only finished secondaries (none of which had any essays) to 4. One school I lost interest in after doing some more research after submitting my primary. One school I didn't have the required 2 letters from science professors, and one school I got rejected pre-secondary (Michigan St. as noted above). I was accepted at two, invited to interview at a third (after my two acceptances had already come), and the fourth I sent out my secondary, and my secondary money, the day before I got my first acceptance...which I promptly called them and told them I was withdrawing. Bastards still cashed my check.</p>
<p>concerning clinical experiences and such,</p>
<p>like in HS, a student can't really get into "deep and actual" volunteering or shadowing at a hospital
but does this change in college? like does an older age allow students to do more w/ volunteering than just clerical tasks and stuff?</p>
<p>
[quote]
like does an older age allow students to do more w/ volunteering than just clerical tasks and stuff?
[/quote]
Nope, never. Volunteers always get those tasks. Always.</p>
<p>That's why I've never volunteered in a hospital; I prefer to volunteer somewhere I can really help someone or learn something or get some experience (I'm a volunteer EMT).</p>
<p>GoldShadow, do you have to take some EMT courses and get certain licenses if you want to volunteer or work as an EMT?</p>
<p>Yes, you do. For the EMT-B (EMT-Basic) certification, a class is usually around 120 or 130 hours, plus a few hours riding in an ambulance. Afterward, you take a state exam to get your certification; you can also choose to take the national registry (NR) test, which allows you to work as an EMT-B in most of the US... I think all but 5 or 6 states.</p>
<p>An EMT-B class can be pretty expensive though... around $300-$600, sometimes even more. I was lucky, my town's ambulance garage offered a course for just around $200.</p>
<p>But I think that if it's something you would find interesting, it's definitely worth it. It's a great experience.</p>
<p>The major volunteering component is simply getting to know patients and spending time with them. Actually getting to do anything is very rare and should not be considered the goal of volunteering.</p>
<p>Agreed with BDM. I got the most out of my time volunteering at the hospital by sitting with the patients and talking to them. I particularly loved (still do) sitting down with the old men who were in fraternities while in college and hearing their stories.</p>
<p>This is what I meant when I said I was able to discuss the limitations of volunteering at a hospital, precisely because of the lack of things you actually do. Being able to recognize that, but realize the benefits from an experience that was different than expected shows maturity and provides you with a lot more to talk about than if you just say you liked what you did.</p>
<p>bluedevilmike, how'd you mess up the application so much?</p>
<p>For clinical experience, I'm working in a program that requires a 4 hour/week commitment for one year (~200 hours). My shift is in the ER from 2-6 on Fridays, so it's pretty busy. Everyone's really helpful - the doctors got really excited when I told them I was premed, and pull me aside whenever they think I'd be interested in something they're doing. I guess some of things I do (transporting patients to CT or x-ray, discharging them, etc.) are "passed" down to me as a volunteer, but hey, it frees up the nurses to do more important things during a really busy time of the day, and I really like talking with the patients and their families. I'd say it's a pretty good experience.</p>
<p>Just didn't pay attention to instructions.</p>
<hr>
<p>I want to stress something here. Notice how accepting Steeler is of the "mundane" duties associated with volunteering -- "Some of the things I do are passed down to me as a volunteer, but hey, it frees up the nurses to do more important things."</p>
<p>That attitude is precisely why people are excited to see him as a premed. He does what's asked not just acceptingly but enthusiastically. He gets along well -- it seems -- with patients and enjoys spending time with them.</p>
<p>In other words, he makes the overall experience better, not worse.</p>
<p>I think many premeds would be well-advised to adopt his attitude when it comes to research and volunteering.</p>
<p>to clarify, i volunteer in a hospital right now (i think u guys know i'm in HS) and i really get a lot out of patient contact and such don't get me wrong</p>
<p>i just wanted to know if volunteering during premed was still an intergral part of the med school application (and note, i'm not volunteering for the sake of my app, i really love listening and getting to know patients)</p>
<p>also, how is the level of involvement concerning shadowing or internships? b/c for HS students, there's not much in the way of these in the medical field</p>
<p>O.K. I went to my opthamologist the other day (just one more part of my body in open revolt) and I met some of the office staff that my D worked with over the summer. I asked the question - does D have what it takes to be a real "patient's doctor"? Does she have a chance to have that "bedside manner" that everyone wants in a doc? (D was a quick learner and was acting as a tech by week two.) </p>
<p>The head "nurse" related an incident to me : </p>
<p>D was performing/monitoring this horrendous field of vision test for a crotchety old fart like me who was complaining loud enough to be heard outside the procedure room. The staff was listening to see how D handled it. He spoke VERY LOUDLY about the pain caused by the position the test procedure required. When she told him to get ready for his other eye and he came unglued: "It's so bad I can't possibly stand it again." D responded : "Well, sir. Then I guess it's a good thing you don't have a third eye." The old man choked back a laugh and they finished the test. ;)</p>
<p>"How is the level?" What on earth are you asking?</p>
<p>how involved are people in something like shadowing while in college? can they do it more often, longer? b/c in HS, we only get a couple chances overall</p>
<p>First off, I don't understand why on earth something would be limited while you're in high school. That discussion is between you and the relevant physician.</p>
<p>Second, physician shadowing is indeed an important part of being a premedical student. It's part of the clinical experience you're expected to have.</p>
<p>well a lot of hospitals say that shadowing is only a couple-times experience, not really an on-going thing (ie 6-month volunteering commitment)</p>
<p>also for research, are premeds expected to have publications? what's the finished product for research in college?</p>