OOS Johnson Scholarship

Colleges and Universities A-Z Washington & Lee University
1

<p>Hi all.
I'm from the DFW area in Texas and am thinking of applying to a few programs/colleges.
I want my expected family contribution to be less than 20,000 since I'm pre-med and medical school is $$$.
I'd like to apply for a full ride here (JOHNSON!!!)
Do you guys think it's feasible? Also, if you've gotten a Johnson Ride here, PLEASE comment :)</p>

<p>Here are my stats-
Objective:</p>

<p>SAT I (breakdown): 2290 on the 3rd try (M: 800, CR: 760, W:730)
ACT: 34 (M 36: E 35: R 36: S 28) Trying to bring this up to a 35/36 next try and raise the science score.
SAT II: Math II: Not taken yet, Chemistry: Not taken yet, Biology E: 800
Unweighted GPA (out of 4.0): 4.0
Rank (percentile if rank is unavailable): Not ranked</p>

<p>I go to a high school/college credit program, so I'm taking all advanced college courses.</p>

<p>Subjective:</p>

<p>Research of Gene Prediction using Markov Chain Mathematical Modeling-
Testing the Markov Chain Theory on Escherichia coli to write a PERL computer algorithm that accurately predicts the location of subsequent genes within a DNA nucleotide sequence (2013+)</p>

<p>Lumbricus terrestris and its response to Homeopathic Herbs to treat Alzheimer’s Disease
Operantly conditioned Lumbricus terrestris earthworms to model the disintegration of neurons in Alzheimer’s patients in result to beta amyloid plaques and neurofibrillary tangles. Awarded the only US Surgeon General’s Sciences Award and received a congratulatory letter from Senator Samuel D. Jackson (2012-2013)</p>

<p>Founder and President of “EcoRenovation"
Registered business encouraging home owners to pursue green remodeling and sustainable products.</p>

<p>President of Robotics
Received donations from companies such as Raytheon, Texas Instruments, and AALBERT Tech to develop a programmable robot. Won BEST Robotics Competition and Entrepreneurship Award at Texas FIRST Robotics
President of French Association</p>

<p>Led students through French competitions, including the National “Le Grand Concours” (won the only “Texas Certificat d'honneur School” award) and the Texas French Symposium</p>

<p>Awards:
US Surgeon General’s Sciences Award and received a congratulatory letter from Senator Samuel D. Jackson for my Alzheimer's Research
National French Laureate Scholar- 99th percentile, awarded to 142 out of 12087 high school students learning French
Exemplary Plano ISD Musician and Solo Superior Violinist Awards at Texas Orchestra Interscholastic Competition
Regionally placed in Braniacs Regional Math and Science Competition</p>

<p>Job/Work Experience: None</p>

<p>Volunteer/Community service: 500+ hours in Vacation Bible School, Autistic Summer Camp,
I'm a tutor in Biology and Chemistry at the University of North Texas and am about to receive professional certification.</p>

<p>Other</p>

<p>State: TX
School Type: Residential Public
Ethnicity: Asian (Indian)
Gender: Male
Income Bracket: 110K, Adjusted Gross Income is 87000
Hooks (URM, first generation college, etc.): None :(</p>

2

<p>Yes, I think you should apply and have a good chance at success. </p>

3

<p>Thanks! Do you happen to know the score averages of accepted Johnson Students?</p>

4

<p>@UofRbound?‌ </p>

5

<p>@Hello98 You have outstanding stats! Yours are close to the average of a Johnson Scholarship recipient.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, because you are of Asian Ethnicity your chances for the scholarship are decreased by a factor of 3.</p>

<p>Asians are admitted to W&L at about a 12% rate while Caucasians are admitted at about 36% rate historically.</p>

<p>Last year an Asian girl with similar stats as you was waitlisted and this year an Asian boy that I know with slightly lower stats as you was also waitlisted.</p>

<p>It appears W&L tries to keep URM enrollment to less than 15% of the student body. Historically the total URM enrollment is under 60 per year with about 20 of them Asians.</p>

<p>With your stats and your desire to go to medical school you might want to apply to schools that offers dual BS/MD programs. If you are selected into these programs, the undergraduate portion is usually low to no cost. Check CC under dual BS/MD programs.</p>

6

<p>Thank you for that @voiceofreason66! I might still try, but I’m definitely looking into Northwestern’s HPME and other bs/md programs.</p>

7

<p>@voiceofreason66‌ W&L most certainly does not try to limit the % of minorities on campus. In fact it is aggressively trying to increase the number of minorities. The whole situation with the one girl last year can be explained by a plethora of reasons, the actual reason we’ll never know, because no one on this forum works in the admissions office. But, W&L has many programs to attract minorities students (as a current student I can see this every day), by paying all expense trips for large groups of minorities from different high schools and geographic reigions to visit campus. I lived in red square last year (the group of fraternity houses down the hill from the colonnade), there were many days on my way to class where I saw entire minority tours being led. W&L is stuck in a tough cycle to break. Because it doesn’t have as high a % of minorities as other elite schools it winds up driving minorities away. </p>

8

<p>@coppijr‌ Would you say that there is actually a higher chance of receiving a Johnson if you were an Asian/Indian in that case?</p>

9

<p>@Hello98 I am not discouraging you from applying to W&L, only telling you the past history of its admission rates. Just wanted you to know your true chances.</p>

<p>@coppijr I am only looking at past history of admission rates at W&L. Hopefully it will change this year but past history is generally a good predictor of future admission rates. As to the Asian girl I mentioned, I do not know the exact reason for her denial, but her stats were outstanding just like OP so OP is not a lock even though his stats are outstanding as well. What is troubling is that if an Asian girl with her high stats is not accepted and the Asian acceptance rate is only 12% vs Caucasian acceptance rate of 36% who and what kind of Asian students are W&L accepting. If W&L is truly trying to improve URM enrollment then she would have been accepted and a lower stat Caucasian applicant denied. However, this did not happen. </p>

<p>In 2012, there were only 29 Asian females who were accepted out of 318 applicants for an acceptance rate of only 9% versus 484 White females out of 1402 for an acceptance rate of 36%. White females were accepted at a rate 4 times that of Asian females. There is no question in my mind that the high stat Asian girl that was denied could easily have take the place of a low stat White girl but this did not happen.</p>

<p>As to the argument that W&L is actively trying to recruit URMs is disingenuous and feigning without showing a significant improvement in the URM population. Since 2008, the total number of URMs per year enrolling at W&L has been less than 60 students. It is my understanding that W&L has been “trying to improve URM enrollment” for many years but the number of enrolled URM students remains 60 or less each year. Numbers don’t lie.</p>

<p>This year an Asian male applicant who has just slightly lower stats than OP was also waitlisted. Since I know this gentleman, I am at a loss as to who is being admitted over him given the low Asian enrollment. His stats are in the upper quartile of those admitted to W&L.</p>

<p>Hopefully you are correct and this will be the year that URM numbers change, but I won’t be holding my breath.</p>

10

<p>@hello98 Sorry, I’m not a Johnson and I have nothing to do with picking new Johnsons (current students who are Johnsons do have some say during the inteviews over Johnson weekend). </p>

11

<p>@voiceofreason66 I don’t want to argue. Just think of it mathematically. W&L is a small school with a small appicant pool year to year (I think 5000-6000) every single applicants outcome has a much larger effect on the statistics than a single applicant at schools with, say, 50,000 applicants. So if a dozen Asian/White/Martian/whatever students do or don’t get in (again, based on reasons we on this forum will never know) it will have a more dramatic impact in W&L’s numbers. Just keep that in mind, that is all I want to get across.</p>

<p>Since I’m posting, here is some more food for thought: Admissions at ALL schools is about math. EVERY college regardless of size, public/private, religious affiliation, has an Office of Instituation Effectiveness (That’s what it is called at W&L, name can be different at other schools) one of their primary jobs is to number crunch every bit of information about every aspect of how the university functions (from admissions to academcis to administrative functions). They use math and raw data to give admissions guidelines on the demographics of students that W&L is most likely to get to enroll. These data are essential in filling out each class at W&L. IF the school were to ignore those numbers for the sake of increasing minorities numbers at W&L it may not pull in a class big enough for the school to continue functioning as normal (for very obvious reasons that is bad).</p>

<p>So even though I’m just a student I PROMISE you that W&L is trying very hard to increase it’s minority numbers. My only “in” at admissions are my friends who are members of the student recruitment committee (aka tour guides), and my frend who does work study in the office of institutional effectiveness and his father who has worked in that type of office at a bunch of Univerisities not including W&L.</p>

<p>I’m sorry your friend didn’t get in. But, as I look at other colleges in CC (I have sisters who are rising seniors so I spend time combing other schools forums), there is one thing that every school’s forum agree’s on…College admissions can be one f****d up system, and that’s life. When I was applying I knew I wanted to go to W&L for a long time, but I also applied to Cornell and if I got in probably would have attended. I was rejected from Cornell and I couldn’t be happier about my life at W&L, sometimes the world makes things work out for the better even when it may not initially seem so.</p>

12

<p>@coppijr Your level of understanding of Math and Statistics is underwhelming. Size of the applicant pool at W&L is large enough that historical numbers do matter. I have never stated that every high achieving applicant should get into W&L. I would not be having this discussion if the rate of admission for URMs were somewhat at par with Caucasian admission rates.</p>

<p>It is the FACT that less than 10% of URMs are admitted each year versus over 35% of Caucasians. This isn’t conjecture, this is Fact. The OP wanted to know his chances of winning the scholarship and based upon historical data that is what I provided to him. </p>

<p>I’m not sure why you are disputing FACTS but you must be aware that this issue of low minority enrollment has not been a recent issue for the school. W&L has been giving lip service of wanting to improve these numbers for years, well before you ever arrived on campus. I highlighted the Asian girl last year and the Asian boy this year to give the example of Minority students who were qualified to attend W&L but were not given admission even though URM population is so poor at W&L. This is not by chance because the applicant pool is sufficient to have a clear view of what is happening at admissions. </p>

<p>I am sure you are not aware that a sample size of 6000 is enough to predict the outcome of any state wide election down to 1-2 percent of millions of voters. So statistically one can use the sample size of W&L’s entire applicant pool to predict the future admission outcome extremely reliably. </p>

<p>What is so disturbing is that every year the admission of URMs at W&L is under 60 enrolled per year and their admission rate is under 10% by contrast the Caucasian enrollment each year is about 400 and their admission rate is about 35% to fill a class size of 475 students. (The remainder is international and students who do not report ethnicity)</p>

<p>If your GPA and Test scores where lower than OP’s than this year’s Asian boy and last years Asian girl who were both waitlisted should have been admitted over you and kids like you if W&L wanted to really improve URM enrollment. But the admission’s office instead has consciously chosen not to admit these high stat URM kids over lower stat Caucasians even while claiming that W&L is actively trying to recruit URMs. </p>

<p>The sad reality is that W&L could nearly double its incoming freshman URM enrollment by just increasing its admission rate of URMs to half that of Caucasians (increase to 17.5% from current 9%) without harming the overall quality of students and Stats profiles. </p>

<p>The FACT that W&L does not do this speaks volumes of what is truly going on at the Admissions Department. </p>

13

<p>@voiceofreason66 you’re missing my point. This reminds of a quote from Field of Dreams. "If you build it, they will come."There are parameters beyone race that the school looks at (for example W&L is partially need-blind but not entirely need-blind). If you admit them, they won’t necessarily come. I don’t know (and neither do you) but I believe W&L is trying to find a balance where it can admit students who are likely to come and keeps its admissions stats looking competitive. For whatever reason the numbers come out with a higher acceptance rate for caucasians, but it certainly is not racism or malicious in intent, until this past year Erin Hutchinson an african-american woman was one of the heads of admissions (she has since left to pursue her dream of starting quilt business, it right in downtown Lexington). Dean Futrell (spelling?) devotes a lot of time to bringing minorities to W&L as she has since she arrived in 2003. The list goes on. I may be reading between the lines when there is nothing to see, but I feel like your stopping just short of saying there is a conspiracy against minorities in admissions at W&L. There isn’t, we take a lot of pride in being the first instution of higher education in the US to have a black student.</p>

<p>Finally, the two students you talk about. I don’t know them, I don’t remember their stats but suppose they’re the most qualified people on the planet, if they don’t demonstrate interest W&L may not take them. That doesn’t mean the school hates asians, it means those two kids may not have interviewed, visited campus, followed up with admissions reps, etc.</p>

<p>Maybe historically caucasians prospective students interview and visit at higher rates. Who knows? …Well, the office of instutional effectiveness does, but we don’t. </p>

<p>I’m not attacking your numbers (of FACTS, in your own words), I know exactly where you found them. I’m just encouraging you to be mindful of information you don’t know when painting a picture about a school whether it be W&L, Bama, or any school.</p>

14

<p>@coppijr My replies were to OP’s inquiry about his chances of winning a Johnson Scholarship. I used the information I had available to make a reasoned assessment of his chances.</p>

<p>It was you who felt a need to defend W&L from the admission numbers because you too see that the numbers are very troubling. Yes, I agree with you that “there are parameters beyond race that the school looks at…” but the admission numbers go so far away from the other parameters that whatever the parameters are they cannot justify the magnitude of disparity in URM admission rates vs Caucasian admission rates however many times someone tries to defend the numbers by using ubiquitous language about other admission parameters that no one can quite define other than to dismiss RACE as a factor.</p>

<p>There are many colleges and universities who have small URM populations for instance Howard University has a nonblack population of under 5% but the admission rate of nonblack students is greater than the admission rate of black students. I would challenge you to find a single university other than W&L where the admission rate of White applicants is 3-4 times greater than the admission rate of URMs. You see you can be a university with a small population of URMs because a small portion of the applicants are URM, thus the small URM population is expected, but when you are talking about W&L where over 40% of the applicants are URM the admission rate of URM students are abysmal. You mentioned the University of Alabama. It has an Asian population of about 2%, however the admission rate of Asians is greater than the overall admission rate of applicants to Alabama . It has a low population of Asians because only a handful of Asians apply. This is not the case of W&L.</p>

<p>Have you ever looked at the W&L diversity and cultural webpage. There is a picture of one Caucasian girl and the rest are African-Americans females. Are you aware that single picture could be showing the entire class of African-American females in any class of the last 5 years. In 2012 only 2 African American female students went to W&L out of 355 who applied while 198 White female student enrolled out of 1402 who applied. The admission rate of African American females for 2012 was 18 admitted out of 355 for a 5% admission rate while for White females it was 484 admitted out of 1402 for a 35% admission rate. If you are a White female your chance of acceptance is 700% greater than if you were a African American female. This disparity to varying degrees is consistent for all URMs vs White applicants. This cannot be by chance or as you put it other parameters that is not RACE based.</p>

<p>You mention Dean Futrell who has been working on bringing in URMs and expanding Ethnic diversity since 2003; has she been doing a good job in your opinion given the lack of URM presence at W&L in 2014? By an measure either she is not trying very hard or whatever she is doing is not working because the admission numbers have been pretty consistent for the past 5 years and possibly since her hire in 2003. If her job was to increase URM enrollment then W&L should have sought someone else to fill that position because based upon the numbers she has not done her job. Or could it be she still has her position because W&L doesn’t want to increase URM enrollment but wants to appear that it is does. The latter appears to be more likely given the terrible Admission Numbers of URMs.</p>

15

<p>I’m in the class of 2016 aka I applied in 2012, I know more than 2 african american females in my grade. Are you leaving out international students? Off of the top of my head I know 7 African students (4 in my grade). Also that picture you reference is the AKA sorority, that white girl is in it. But, go back and check that. Maybe the numbers are funky because international students dont count in those numbers? I also know 3 vietnamese girls in my grade alone too. </p>

<p>Like I said initially, I don’t want to argue, I just hope you realize that there is much we as the public don’t know.</p>

<p>I’m sorry you have such an axe to grind with this university. It truly is a great place, but then again we are also a unique school in many respects. Nobody is perfect. Most people at the school will tell you W&L isn’t for everyone (In the name of all that is holy, please don’t skew that to be about race) but if it is your type of school it creates a very special place in your heart. Good luck with your admissions search.</p>

16

<p>@hello98 I’m not sure, but I think I heard one time that the Johnson average was 2200 give or take 30. Not an official number just something I think I heard once.</p>

17

<p>Thanks @coppijr‌
@voiceofreason66‌ I’d like to see an online source of your data please :)</p>

18

<p>@Hello98 The data came from W&L’s 2012-2013 Fact Book page 56, however the information has now been blocked by password protection. It used to be public. All the data I have provided came from the Fact Book.</p>

<p>@coppijr Per the Fact Book 2012-2013 edition there were only 2 African American females that enrolled in your 2012 class so you must be mistaken.</p>

<p>International students are not included only Domestic Minorities in URM acceptance rates vs Caucasian acceptance rates.</p>

<p>As to your reference that I have an “ax to grind with this university,” is both true and false. I abhor discrimination from that point of view I do not like what I see in the admission numbers of W&L if that’s my ax to grind then so be it. If you abhor discrimination it should bother you too. My input toward the OP was my reasoned evaluation of his chances based upon prior admission history of winning a Johnson Scholarship so there was no ax to grind there. </p>

<p>Admission data is relevant because ALL Johnson Scholars are admitted to W&L even without a formal admission letter. If one knows that only about 1 in 9 Asians are admitted to W&L but that 1 in 3 Caucasians are admitted, one can infer from the data that if you are Asian your chance at admission is one third that of Caucasians. Since admission is required to be Johnson Scholar, you follow where I’m going with this. </p>

<p>Which brings me to your reference “please don’t skew that to be about race.” I did not make my chance evaluation about race. I provided a reasoned analysis about OP’s chances of winning as an OOS Johnson Scholarship based upon historical admission numbers and race just happened to be a factor. It was you who saw the blatant racial aspects of the admission numbers, which I commend you for seeing, but saw fit to defend W&L because it is your school, which I also commend you for doing.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, you do so blindly and that is disappointing and shows a lack of character an courage. If I was a student at W&L I would like answers from Admission why the admission numbers are so blatantly skewed against URMs. When admission numbers are as skewed as W&L, anyone who sees them has to scratch one’s head because it can only be one of two reasons: 1. The applicant pool of URMs are so poor that only 1 in 10 are deserving of admissions or 2. W&L has a racially discriminatory admission policy.</p>

<p>Now add this information. Last year an Asian girl who scored over 2200 SAT, unweighted 4.0 GPA and showed interest by interviewing with great EC was wait-listed and this year an Asian boy who scored 33 ACT, unweighted 3.7 GPA with good EC and who showed interest by visiting the school from across the country was also wait-listed. </p>

<p>What is your assessment now.</p>

19

<p>I’m not mistaken, it’s a small school I know the african girls in my grade. So since the race of international students at W&L is not included in those numbers and most of the international students are not caucausion (we have African students from Uganda, Rwanda, Nigeria; Asian students from China, Vietnam, Korea; We have students from Latin American like Argentina, Costa Rica, etc.). So I guess on paper the numbers look far worse than the reality because we have all of those students most of them are not caucasian. Come visit in the fall, you can see them with your own eyes rather than worrying about page 56 of a three year old packet.</p>

<p>Please don’t attack my character, that is low. This isn’t my fight. I got on here to help students explore my university. You have are so fixated on the numbers from one point of view it has given you tunnel vision and blinds your from trying to see the whole picture. All of your posts to me have been using the same numbers and repackaging them with the same or slightly different arguments. You are “adding” no information in this post. But, the only reason I’ve kept responding to your shenanigans was to see if you would come out directly and say it rather than beating around the bush and you did “W&L has a racially discriminatory admissions policy.” It’s great that you are concerned, it’s okay to have any opinion. It is NOT acceptable to lie. We have an honor system that gets students kicked out every year for lying in one form or another. I guess you may not be a great fit for W&L if that’s how you choose to act.</p>

20

<p>@coppijr All colleges and universities keep separate Domestic and International minority data. It is a shame that you and W&L see international African students the same as African-American students and international Asian from Asian-American students.</p>

<p>Again, from the admission information and the additional profile of two Asian-American students who were wait-listed, you concluded that I stated that “W&L has a racially discriminatory admissions policy.” I have stated no such thing. Unlike you, I am inclined to be non-judgmental without more information but like you the DATA does appear to show W&L Admission’s Office in a negative light. One that requires further inquiry. </p>

<p>Unfortunately since W&L has already taken steps to be less transparent by closing access to what was open to the public, the Fact Book, it is clear that W&L knows of this information but refuses to address it in public.</p>

<p>As you know, African-American law students at W&L just this past spring have made allegations of racism at W&L so this is an issue that the Administration should clear up but they have taken to being secretive and not transparent. Says a lot about how valued the Honor Code really is at W&L.</p>