<p>On reflection, I think that I was inaccurate in my reference to Penn, which (in large measure because of its sheer size) is much more diverse than Swarthmore.</p>
<p>^I disagree with your implication that large schools are always more diverse than small schools, simply because they have a larger raw number of X minority group. In fact, I would argue the opposite–if Swarthmore were OSU’s size, it would never be able to achieve the level of diversity it does with such a small, intimate community. There simply aren’t enough high-achieving African-American males to make critical mass in a very large community.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Really? Guess I’d better give that news to D who is the opposite of nearly every stereotype I’ve ever heard about W&L, that her diverse spectrum of friends and peers do not actually exist. She’d disagree, but hey, what’s her opinion or experiences as an actual student compared to the outdated generalizations of Fiske Guide?</p>
<p>While I don’t put much stock in Fiske Guide, I do think that prospective student impressions (as well as contradicting accounts given by actual students, which assuredly exist at EVERY school) are of some merit. After all, there are definitely quirky theatre geeks at Williams; that doesn’t change its dominant identity as the destination for really smart, preppy athletes.</p>
<p>Yale Daily News publishes a book annually called “The Insiders Guide to Colleges” which provides a great feel for what it is like to be a student at these schools, what the campus, faculty, students extracurricuklars, and general “tone” etc is like, from a students perspective. Great book.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>That’s because the majority of the Asians here at Temple are internationals.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I won’t disagree, but I do think people need to be very careful about relying on “impressions” as fact. </p>
<p>Even “dominant” identities, per se, are not always a good predictor of what a student’s actual experience will be from one school to the next. At best, such labels only serve the most superficial of evaluations. At worst, they can be groundless and misleading.</p>
<p>^In lieu of subjective “impressions,” what would you recommend relying upon? Current student anecdotes fall prey to much the same issues as prospective student anecdotes, because two students can experience the same “side” of a school and react in opposite ways. What is a minor or nonexistent issue for one student–for example, the lack of a philosophy club–can be endlessly frustrating for another.</p>
<p>I think “identity” labels, or “personalities,” serve a useful purpose of warning students who do not fit the dominant identity–not to go away, but to investigate subcultures, compromises, and institutional priorities very carefully.</p>
<p>So Sunday morning I hop in the car for a two day drive to Florida. I get here tonight, log in to CC for the evening entertainment, and see this thread is still going. It’s arguments have taken on dimensions regarding diversity, law school admits and other elements that detract from the original intent - Briguy’s fit. </p>
<p>Briguy - where are you? You’ve been silent for several days while others nitpick each others arguments, twist statements, and I for one am curious if you have made a decision.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yes Briguy, what say you?</p>
<p>On W&L:</p>
<p>It is very difficult to misinterpret 87% white, 78% fraternity/sorority, and only 37% qualifying for financial aid. </p>
<p>I’ve looked at stats for many, many colleges over the years and all three of those are jaw-dropping numbers. They lead the league in all three categories. W&L is a fine school. Gorgeous campus. But, it is the dictionary definition of “lily white”. I don’t even know how you get 87% white in this day and age. </p>
<p>Williams, Amherst, and Swarthmore haven’t been 87% white since the 1970s – thirty years ago. Even Davidson is only 82% white.</p>
<p>Haha ctyankee, I’m not quite sure what the quoted text is supposed to mean :-P</p>
<p>@susanr64, ctyankee: I haven’t officially made a decision yet, nor have I gotten an update on my financial aid appeal to Swarthmore, but my parents have been quietly pushing for OSU. My mom told me that because there’s a chance I might be interested in attending law school in the future, I should try to save my money now. She also said that 1) I’ll be able to concentrate on my studies without having to worry about working on top of that, and 2) I would be able to study abroad more.</p>
<p>I’m not expecting much from the Swat appeal but I recognize that my parents aren’t that comfortable with swinging the 13k or so per year, especially since my brother is also going to be entering college, and because my dad’s pay got cut and his job security is a bit precarious. So in short, OSU looks like the front-runner for now. </p>
<p>I didn’t mean for the thread to devolve into an intense discussion involving diversity statistics, but perhaps/hopefully we all got at least something from it.</p>
<p>Thanks for all the input from everyone nonetheless.</p>
<p>Brian</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>That’s a very good question. One for which I don’t have a ready answer. I suppose nothing beats how well a particular student knows him or herself. But trying to translate that into “fit” with a high degree of certainty in an environment with which one has no daily experience is tough. As you said, students have to conduct their due diligence intelligently. Hopefully, they also leave enough margin for the unexpected; the inevitiable encounters that occur not because of a school’s reputed culture, but because they are who they are as an individual; those wholly important intangibles that can ultimately trump first impressions. </p>
<p>I believe most students have individual experiences that make or break their time at college moreso than the collective ones promised at the outset. Thus, I tend to cringe at wholesale, overzealous characterizations, both good and bad alike. It’s just not that simple. D’s experience at W&L is a perfect example.</p>
<p>YOu would really be crazy to turn down the spectacular education you could get at Swarthmore for a difference of $13,000 a year. OSU could be good, but Swarthmore is in a whole different league. It–and the students who attend it–really are stellar. If you are a bright person, do yourself a favor and be stimulated by the brilliance and intensity of Swarthmore.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I completely disagree. If your interests consist of mostly intellectual pursuits, maybe. Somehow, I dont think the students at Swat get overly excited about the basketball games. tOSU is a fantastic school academically, and is basically unparalleled socially, especially with regards to athletics. tOSU may not have the same reputation as Swat in academic circles, but the OSU alumni network absolutely destroys Swat’s. I say all this as someone who lives near Swat and isn’t particularly fond of tOSU athletics :)</p>
<p>Trust me, if you like sports, the experiences you’d have at tOSU cannot be matched in any way by Swat.</p>
<p>Briguy…just wanted to chime in although I have not read through all these posts. You have two terrific choices and it sounds like you would be OK with either. And I just have this feeling that you will excel wherever you go. The schools are about as different as can be…however I think it’s just about impossible to say that one will be qualitatively better than the other. Different but not better or worse. That’s my opinion…I know not all on this board would agree. </p>
<p>At Swarthmore, you’ll likely be surrounded by a intellectually curious, somewhat quirky student body. The classes will be small and the faculty top notch. You’ll probably get noticed as having graduated from a brand name when you’re out looking for a job or applying to grad schools. As long as you see yourself fitting in, how can you go wrong? (Also, I live not too far from the campus and it is BEAUTIFUL). </p>
<p>But at OSU, you also have amazing opportunities. You might have to be a bit more aggressive, but if you are, you may find that you’re working on important research with professors, in your first or second year. You can do some of your own research to seek out the best classes and professors. You most certainly can find motivated students, although the party/football type will also be around. Yes, it’s big, but if you’re comfortable with that, you can use it to your advantage…finding just the right group to make you feel comfortable and supported. And the honors college give you a bit of a power boost… you’ll likely to get noticed by professors and will be first in line for opportunities. And you’ll have extra $ for study abroad…and possibly law school. </p>
<p>Can you arrange to talk with with students at both schools who are in your major? Or perhaps communicate online with a few? Maybe they will have some impt info to share that could help with your decision. Could be good or bad. </p>
<p>All the best to you. You are a VERY lucky guy.</p>
<p>Briguy, post #252 exhibits grace under pressure. Congratulations on your excellent choices, and good luck to you!</p>
<p>Fit, fit, fit. Visit, visit, visit.</p>
<p>Having said that, I agree with endicott. A friend’s son graduated from Swarthmore. If you are looking for intellectual rigor then you are getting a fabulous education for 52k total. Some schools are in an entirely different league and Swat is one of them.</p>
<p>I agree with Psi and toneranger, briguy. Sounds like you have some great things ahead of you wherever you land. Good luck.</p>
<p>I will be a '14 Swattie, the same class as briguy if he should choose to attend. Even so, I respect his preference to not burden his parents financially, and with such a sincere motivation, I think he will do well for himself at any school, including OSU.</p>