<p>Hello parents of CC! I'm finally done with the college admissions process (finally!) and it's time for me to make a decision. Recently I've narrowed down my list to two colleges: Ohio State and Swarthmore College. I'm in a bit of a dilemma though and I was wondering if I could get some thoughts from you parents. </p>
<p>I was fortunate enough to be awarded the Presidential Scholarship at Ohio State, which will pay for room and board, tuition, books, etc. I was also admitted to the Honors</a> Collegium, which I think will be enormously helpful when I apply for grad school and major national scholarships. Additionally, what appeals to me is The</a> Ohio State University Chinese Flagship Program which I definitely plan to enroll in, should I attend OSU. I am also attracted by the fact that Columbus seems to have a lot of attractions, that I will have the opportunity to meet a lot of diverse students at OSU, and that I will probably get a lot of credit from my AP exams. I'm pretty sure I want to major in international relations, economics, and Chinese, but maybe also dabble in German and/or French, which is why I think the lax credit policy at OSU will be very beneficial.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I was also admitted to Swarthmore College, which is also an excellent institution. I'm attracted to the culture of academic rigor at the college and the opportunity to meet high achieving, diverse students here as well. I also like the fact that I will be in small classes for the majority of my time there and that I'll have the opportunity to participate in the rigorous honors program. I also know that Swarthmore has a reputation for sending lots of its students to the top grad schools in the country. At Swarthmore, however, although I've been awarded around 40k in aid (my EFC was around 10k), I'd still have to pay around 13k per year. </p>
<p>So the question: would I be stupid to turn down the full ride at OSU for Swarthmore, assuming that Swarthmore stands up to my every expectation when I visit next week? I think it might be relevant to say that I'm considering a career in international politics, either as a foreign service officer or something to do with international law (a field which has very few and competitive job opportunities, I hear). I plan on either attending grad school after college to pursue an MA in international relations or pursue a JD, or both. However, I am not 100% positive yet, which route I will pursue. Would it be worth it to pay the 13k per year at Swarthmore, or would I be better off studying at OSU for free since I'm not sure yet what I want to do? </p>
<p>Thanks for the help all! It's greatly appreciated! Let me know if anything needs to be clarified.</p>
<p>Swarthmore would be well worth $13,000 a year.</p>
<p>Swarthmore is a very, very small campus. You need to ask yourself if you could handle being there for four years. </p>
<p>My s turned down Swarthmore for Penn State Schreyers full ride BUT Swat would have cost us $120,000. This was a good move for him. He had no interest in all those humanities courses.</p>
<p>Does the 40k in aid from Swarthmore include student loans? If so, then the overall cost for you would exceed 13k per year. Is the Swarthmore aid renewable over the four years? Would you actually be able to come up with the 13k or would you (or your parents) be borrowing money to finance your undergrad education? As wonderful as Swarthmore is, it would be hard to turn down a full ride at OSU, especially considering that you are planning on graduate school, which could be costly.</p>
<p>Thanks for the help, sax. Yeah, when I go to Swarthmore I’m going to see if the small college atmosphere is right for me. I just really like the idea of small classes, and lots of student-teacher interaction. Also, glad to hear that your son found his niche at Penn State.</p>
<p>Mary13, the financial aid does NOT include loans. I got $38k from the “Swarthmore College Scholarship” and I am expected to earn $1,780 from work-study. Also, I do believe the reward is renewable for four years. My parents said they would try hard to provide the money for Swat if I chose to attend. I am relatively sure that some of the 13k that we are expected to pay would come from loans. And yes, I’m finding it hard to make a decision between these two great options, so thanks for the help!</p>
<p>Swatties definitely have a strong academic reputation. You may answer your questions yourself after a campus visit. Does Swat. have the Chinese? </p>
<p>There are two ways to do grad school: 1) you pay or 2) they pay you tuition and a small stipend to TA or do other work. Alas, law school is the “you pay” path. What you choose now may affect which of those paths you can take later.</p>
<p>Hi Olymom, thanks for your prompt reply! Yes, Swat does have Chinese, and it seems like the department offers a wide range of courses.</p>
<p>I guess I didn’t really consider those aspects of grad school. I was recently thinking about the law field and how I might reconsider going into it if international law and some aspects of constitutional law are the only areas that appeal to me. Basically I want to pursue a career in the future that will allow me to travel and learn different languages and cultures. While I acknowledge that many of my interests will change in college, I think you’re right in saying that which institution I choose now will affect what I do in the future. Thanks, it’s definitely something to consider!</p>
<p>At our community college graduation a couple of years ago, I was chatting with one of my colleagues instead of listening to the program, and we were discussing the small college experience. Her observation was that if you attend a small college and don’t like your classmates, you are stuck with the same group for four years. Likewise, if you aren’t crazy about one or two faculty members, often the departments don’t have a lot to choose from.</p>
<p>When DD visited Swarthmore, she sat in on a class and there were only two or three students. She did not find it particularly stimulating though it could have been just a bad day. She ended up at a public university though not as large a one as Ohio State. She loves the flexibility she has because of the generous AP credit policy. She also plans to go to graduate school and will graduate with no debt and her 529 in place to use for grad school. It may be a question of do you want to be a big fish in a small pond or the other way around. Swarthmore does offer the consortium with Haverford, Bryn Mawr, and Penn, so that would broaden the pool.</p>
<p>MD Mom, thank you for your perspective. Your thoughts about the limited number of faculty members in particular is interesting. Although I know I won’t like all of my classmates in college, I’m willing to bet that I’ll be able to find at least a small group of people that I like and that have similar interests. I’m assuming that all of the professors at Swat are highly qualified, but I know that merely having a PhD doesn’t qualify one as a good teacher per se.</p>
<p>What’s most attractive to me about Ohio State is that I’ll have the freedom (and money) to pursue a wide variety of interests. It also seems to me like the Honors Collegium will offer lots of opportunities for networking, and there are also numerous research opportunities available at OSU. I might be wrong, but maybe there is a better chance that I’ll be able to “stand out” at OSU. Sorry if I seem like I’m indecisive. I’m just trying to offer my perspective of the situation.</p>
<p>I love OSU but I’d sure consider Swarthmore at that nice price ($13K/year). Both are great schools, but they are so different! If you visit Swarthmore and it really feels “right” for you, more so than OSU, I would say to go for it. (Is your Swarthmore scholarship hard to keep or is it automatic for four years?)</p>
<p>Thanks Midwestmom. The “scholarship” is part of my financial aid award, so I think it is automatic for 4 years. I think Swat calls it that because they have a new policy of not putting loans in the financial aid awards, so it is considered a “gift of the college.”</p>
<p>My daughter is very personality driven. She went to her first day of a seminar last fall and said that the prof was a jack of all trades and master of none and she wasn’t listening to him all semester. She dropped the class. Funny girl. </p>
<p>The honors classes at Ohio State might be smaller as well. Universities figured out quite a few years ago that they were losing really smart kids and many developed honors programs, which seem to be colleges within colleges. A lot of people would have you believe that the pricey privates get all the brightest kids, but it simply is not true. Many bright kids like the idea that a university wants them enough to pay most if not all of the bill.</p>
<p>100 years ago when I went to college at my state university, classes were pretty small (25 or less) after freshman year.</p>
<p>Swarthmore @13,00/year is a real bargain. You will get a spectacular education there.</p>
<p>I don’t think you need to worry about having too few faculty members to choose from there. But you should visit the campus, if at all possible, before making your decision. It is a very intense place with a distinct “personality”.</p>
<p>The honors program at OSU is definitely one of its stronger points. When I visited, and from speaking to other people at OSU, it seems like the university takes extremely good care of its honor students. I like the idea of priority scheduling as well the smaller honors classes and the special study abroad opportunities. When I visited, I also met a freshman who had junior standing and was taking 500 level classes, which definitely appeals to me since I have such a wide variety of interests.</p>
<p>And thank you for your insight into college 100 years ago, I definitely chuckled at that!</p>
<p>I think what I want most of all is a great academic experience and the assurance that my parents can enjoy their retirement. I know I can get a great academic experience at both institutions, so I guess now I’m weighing the costs and benefits of paying for very different experiences!</p>
<p>My daughter will have junior status at the end of the summer. Something to keep in mind whatever you do is that you can work on languages in the summer. Many colleges and universities offer immersion programs, which is a great option. At my duaghter’s school, her language class (Japanese) is five credits, but has seven contact hours (two lecture, five recitation). It really locks up the schedule, so she is taking her second year this summer (lucky her, she got a scholarship for that too) and in the fall she will move to year three, which are three credit classes. After the summer course ends, she wants to take a little trip to Japan and practice her new language skills. Since she took the scholarship, we will pay for the trip.</p>
<p>Had she chosen to go to Georgetown or Chicago–where we would have been full pay, she would be getting a J-O-B this summer. Now her job is to do well and keep her grades up.</p>
<p>I find it very difficult to compare a large public state university to a LAC. It would seem that you need to decide on that first. The college experience would be very different at the two, and many students who would thrive at one would wither at the other, regardless of the academics, or the potential job market that one or the other opens.</p>
<p>The honors college at OSU changes little in distinguishing large public versus LAC. In practice I would expect that most of the students at your OSU classes would be non-honors. The honors cache gives you privileges, like scheduling, but it will rarely do more.</p>
<p>So what would you do if you could afford either, and there wasn’t the “honors” cache at OSU?</p>
<p>If money weren’t an issue, which one would you choose?</p>
<p>Swarthmore sends more kids to the top grad schools, is a highly ranked LAC, etc. There is a WSJ link to this list of top grad school feeders. I will try to find it.</p>
<p>But if you prefer a bigger school…Swat may not be for you.</p>
<p>If I were interviewing a kid for a job and I heard they went to Swat, I’d be very impressed. OS not so much. Not because it’s not a great school, but because I’ve never heard of it.</p>
<p>But I think it’s most important for kids to choose a campus that is “right” for them. Many kids might be miserable at Swat. Too small. Too dry. Too rigorous. Etc.</p>
<p>IMO, Swarthmore offers the best undergraduate academic program in the United States, bar none, and I would be happy to go into excrutiating detail backing up that opinion, if you would like.</p>
<p>I am very confident that no public university in the country can offer the undergraduate program Swarthmore does. They can’t match the financial resources, can’t match the student-centered focus, and can’t match the academic engagement of the students and faculty.</p>
<p>Having said that, I can’t tell somebody else how to make a $13,000 a year decision. All I can tell you is that Swarthmore spends $85,000 per student per year on undergraduate education, so you would certainly be getting a better financial “deal” at Swarthmore for $13k than at any public university for $0k.</p>
<p>Note: Chinese is the most popular foreign language at Swarthmore now. Arabic is the second most popular.</p>
<p>Thanks for the responses everyone. Regarding the size of Swarthmore, I honestly don’t think that it will be that much of a problem for me (but I say this not having visited Swarthmore yet). My high school, while bigger in student population by around 500 kids, isn’t what I would call suffocatingly small. I also think that given the diversity and academic profile of my potential peers at Swat, I would be able to find my niche. Again, I’m hoping to get more of a sense of Swat’s environment when I visit next week.</p>
<p>If money were not an issue, I think I would pick the institution that has a better academic reputation. Mrscollege, I found the link you speak of on Swat’s wikipedia page and I think that’s definitely a plus for me, as I am sure I want to pursue graduate/professional studies after my undergrad years.</p>
<p>Thank you for your perspective, interesteddad. I’ve seen your posts in the Swarthmore subforum and it definitely seems like Swat treats its undergrads extremely well. Also, I didn’t know that Chinese was so big at Swat: that’s great! I looked at the list of courses and was kind of surprised by the variety. If you DID have the time, I’d of course be willing to hear more about your opinions of Swat via PM. </p>
<p>I am usually one on here to say “save your money”/ differences are overrated/don’t worry about prestige/education is what you make of it. But when I saw the $13k/yr differential, my vote is definitely for Swarthmore. I know everyone’s utility is different so this might seem like a giant amount but it is, after a degree, the price of a new car. So I think it would be very very worth going to Swarthmore (assuming of course you like LACs and all they entail, which isn’t of course for everyone).</p>