OSU Full Ride or Swarthmore? Parent's perspective would be greatly appreciated!

Parents Forum
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<p>Make sure that you talk to the people in the Collegium about what your goals are. Under Gee, they have taken a very proactive stance as to mentoring and guiding their members when it comes to winning valuable and prestigious awards–just today, they announced that seven students have won Fulbright scholarships this year. Also. have a talk with your parents about college finances. If you have a full+ tuition and expenses scholarship, maybe they can put the money, or a percentage of it, that they have saved for your education into a savings account that you could use for graduate school.</p>

<p>[Honors</a> Collegium](<a href=“http://honors-scholars.osu.edu/collegium/Default.aspx]Honors”>http://honors-scholars.osu.edu/collegium/Default.aspx)</p>

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<p>As a side note, when you look at the Collegium website, click on the senior class to see what they have accomplished over their four years, as well as the alumni profiles from each year to get an idea of what would be in store for you.</p>

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<p>That’s a pretty strong accusation that Swat has a “biased” pop because they don’t have Jewish studies. Are you sure you want to make that accusation? BTW, Brandeis has considered dropping some aspects of Hebrew & Yiddish because of their financial woes.</p>

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<p>Pizzagirl, I did NOT make any accusations. I used the word “might have a biased population.”</p>

<p>Check out most LACs that give a lot of ethnic majors and languages. Most of these do have some form of Jewish studies or Hebrew offered. It is a bit unusual to have Islamic studies, Gender Studies, Black Studies and even Asian studies without some form of Jewish studies, especially since there are a large number of Jewish folks who go to college. Both Haverford and Williams, Barnard and Wesleyan, Oberlin, Bryn Mawr, and even Middlebury have at least a concentration in Jewish studies along with their usual ethnic studies, as does many others. Admittedly, this isn’t universal since Bowdoin and Amherst don’t have a program,but they also don’t have the same number of language options and ethnic studies program options of Swat. Thus, when I find a program like Swat that is missing it, it does raise questions with me even upon reflection. I tend to be overly sensitive towards any form of perceived discrimination.</p>

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<p>Well, now let’s look at that claim in more detail. Of course THE OSU has a larger number of courses. It has more of everything: more students, more bathrooms, more parking spaces, and so forth. I think it’s a secret. Small boutique size is one of Swarthmore’s defining characteristics. Large mammoth size is one of THE OSU’s definging characteristics.</p>

<p>On course selection, the Common Data Sets provide exactly the information we are looking for: the total number of course sections offered last fall.</p>

<p>The OSU:</p>

<p>Undergrad Courses - 4092
Undergrad Students - 41,348
Ratio of students to available courses: 10:1 </p>

<p>Swarthmore College:</p>

<p>Undergrad Courses - 348
Undergrad Students - 1,432
Ratio of students to available courses: 4:1</p>

<p>So, even when it comes time to register for courses, the resources of Swarthmore are apparent as only four students will be competing for enrollment versus ten. In other words, Swarthmore offers an extraordinary number of course sections relative to the size of its student body – extradordinary even for a high-end liberal arts college.</p>

<p>NOTE to TAXGUY: Swarthmore has an Engineering program granting a B.S. in Engineering degree. It’s been ABET accredited as long as MIT, since the first year ABET accredition was instituted, back in 1936.</p>

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<p>Well, with the honors college at OSU, I think the comparison is a bit more complicated than that (although I have to say I don’t know much about the particular offerings at OSU). </p>

<p>Being a mad googler (like idad), I found the following about honors courses:</p>

<p>“All honors courses are taught in small classes (25 or fewer students) with faculty instructors who committed to the needs of each student. Classmates will be among the best students at The Ohio State University, all eager to learn and explore new ideas.”</p>

<p>So, Briguy, find out how many of these courses are offered, particularly in your area of interest. It can make a big difference. (For example, PSU Honors offers around 250 of these courses and many of them are really terrific - AND taught by the better professors). And I assume you will have priority scheduling so no problem getting into the classes you want. </p>

<p>Again, good luck to you!!!</p>

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<p>I haven’t read the whole thread here but I might have an interesting point of view. All of my family…mom, dad, brother and I all went to OSU and loved every minute of it. When my S started looking at colleges (oldest child) we started at Swarthmore as a lark. Great school, beautiful, lots of opportunity there. I came away from it with a great appreciation of what a small school can bring.</p>

<p>If you can get what you need at both schools and the $ amt at S is not that great, what about “fit” for you? When you walk around OSU’s campus does that feel good to you, do the students look like you? Does the campus seem overwhelming? Same goes at Swarthmore. Did you visit feel good? Did you spend the night and feel like you fit there? It’s a lovely campus, but much smaller than OSU…did that seem ok? As I remember something like 97% of all kids at S live all 4 years on campus. Would you like that. Most at OSU live in a dorm for 1 or 2 years and then live with friends in apartments. School spirit is HUGE at OSU not at Swarth so much. What sounds like YOU?</p>

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<p>"Thus, when I find a program like Swat that is missing it, it does raise questions with me even upon reflection. I tend to be overly sensitive towards any form of perceived discrimination. "</p>

<p>Not offering a given academic area does not mean discrimination, however. Perhaps Swat students can take those classes at BM, Haverford and/or Penn and so the administration decided it wasn’t worth offering on their campus. Sorry, I’m Jewish but I think you’re being a little overly sensitive and finding discrimination where there may be none. There’s no other a priori reason to suspect Swat is a “biased” campus against Jews. It’s in a northeast urban area, the student body supports all types, I’m sure there is no shortage of Jewish students at any school in their consortium.</p>

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<p>Swarthmore hardly neglects “Jewish studies”. As has been pointed out, they even have a two semester course in reading the Old Testament and other texts in the original Hebrew. They have a Jewish studies specialist in the Religion Department, a PhD graduate in Rabbinics from the Jewish Theological Seminary.</p>

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<p>That’s funny. At Swarthmore, my daughter considered 25 students to be a large class. Last fall, 78% of all Swarthmore courses had 19 or fewer students. 93% of all Swarthmore courses had 29 or fewer students.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.swarthmore.edu/Documents/administration/ir/ClassSize.pdf[/url]”>http://www.swarthmore.edu/Documents/administration/ir/ClassSize.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>THE OSU site says that honors students usually take one or two honors course sections a quarter. Here’s a PDF with the list of “Honors Courses” and the quarter they are offered:</p>

<p><a href=“http://honors-scholars.osu.edu/honors/documents/yearly.pdf[/url]”>http://honors-scholars.osu.edu/honors/documents/yearly.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Oh, and for TAXGUY, one of the two HONORS HEBREW courses at THE OSU is the study of the Bible and other Hebrew tests in translation.</p>

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<p>Idad…you’re a better googler than I am :)</p>

<p>Really, does anybody think Swat has LARGE classes? No way. </p>

<p>But it’s important, IMO, to nail down what the experience at a large state U might be for an honors student. Is it window dressing or is it real? From what it looks like, there are significant offerings but I would dig more. Students can probably take more than two classes per quarter. And classes can get smaller naturally as you progress through your major. </p>

<p>That’s why I suggested that the OP talk to current honors students. Find them on Facebook or other places. Get the real story. Based on what I know, you can get a LOT from this type of program as long as you invest your time and energy in connecting with the many resources. </p>

<p>All that said, wow, I still think these are vastly different environments. You really can’t replicate what Swat offers, IMO. The one thing I will say is not to believe the " small liberal arts school within a big U…“best of both worlds” marketing pitches. If you are comfortable in a large school setting and can advocate for yourself, that’s great. But these big school honors programs are NOT equivalent to small lacs (although they have many other perks). Going in with the right expectation is very important.</p>

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<p>Interesteddad-</p>

<p>“Well, now let’s look at that claim in more detail. Of course THE OSU has a larger number of courses. It has more of everything: more students, more bathrooms, more parking spaces, and so forth. I think it’s a secret. Small boutique size is one of Swarthmore’s defining characteristics. Large mammoth size is one of THE OSU’s definging characteristics.”</p>

<p>All true except the parking spaces!</p>

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<p>mommusic-</p>

<p>"I knew students who preferred <em>gasp</em> Michigan football. "</p>

<p>IMPOSSIBLE!</p>

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<p>Taxguy makes an interesting point here:</p>

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<ol>
<li> It’s actually a very helpful exercise when touring colleges to go to the campus bookstore and see what textbooks are used. For the big introductory courses, a prof generally has the choice of an upper-level, mid-level, or lower-level text. So for intro psych, a course using Gleitman or Gray would probably be upper-level; ditto for an anthro course using Kottak or an American history survey using Henretta. The other thing to look at is how many supplemental books are required in addition to the textbook.</li>
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<p>So while I disagree that OSU and Swat “probably use the same books,” I do agree that the very best way to compare is to get hold of the syllabi for the courses a student is interested in. How many pages of readings are required for each class? How many oral presentations and research papers–and how long–are required? How many tests and exams are given each semester–and are they computer-graded multiple choice exams or do they require essay answers? At some state universities (I know nothing about OSU), intro psych courses require no research papers and exams are multiple-choice. </p>

<p>Although course syllabi are almost all on-line now, in most cases you have to be an enrolled student to access them. But the differences in course demands can be vast and accepted students should take advantage of the wooing period to find out as much as they can. Swat’s reputation for “intensity” is based in considerable measure on the heavy demands of most courses there. </p>

<p>One example: At many schools the engineering course on concrete is taught over two semesters, i.e., “Concrete I” and “Concrete II.” At Swat the same content is covered in one semester, at an accelerated pace. </p>

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<li> ID has corrected Taxguy’s misstatement by pointing out that Swat does indeed have an ABET-certified engineering program. Taxguy is correct that the program does not cover all major fields, such as aerospace. However, Swat DOES offer a concentration in civil engineering; in fact, in my son’s year about half the engineering students took civil. Perhaps taxguy was thinking of Penn, which phased out its civil engineering major a while back? Or Princeton? The main field of engineering Swat does not offer is chemical–although you can cobble together a self-made concentration in that, supplementing with courses at Penn.<br></li>
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<p>Of course none of this engineering info is remotely relevant to the OP; I just wanted to be sure we got the facts right on the thread. </p>

<p>I agree with everyone that the OP can have a fantastic educational experience in the Honors college at OSU. The financial savings are real and being closer to home will save travel expenses as well. </p>

<p>On the other hand, the OP is (currently) aiming for two of the most selective occupations there are–corporate international law and the Foreign Service. It would be interesting to check the alma maters of Cravath and Sullivan & Cromwell and David Polk and Paul Weiss–and senior FSOs to see how many are Swat or OSU grads.</p>

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<p>Two points against having classes at the college level with too few students: There comes a point where you don’t have enough voices, ideas, or opinions in the class, or buddies to pick for a study group. It’s also inefficient for a professor to have too few students, that it unnecessarily boosts the cost of education.</p>

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<p>Small classes are really, really boring. Anything under 25 would be awful.</p>

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<p>As I said before, I’m from the suburbs of Philadelphia, under a half hour from Swat, and I had never heard of it until I was looking at colleges. Hell, I live 5 minutes from Haverford and never realized it was that good of a school until I started looking at colleges.</p>

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<p>Diontechristmas,</p>

<p>I’m gonna go out on a limb here and guess you weren’t too familiar with Bryn Mawr either.
Glad you learned about these schools before you were done with the college process!!</p>

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<p>I knew Bryn Mawr. My ex lived across the street.</p>

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I guess sustained vigorous discussion and the ability to take side trips of interest through material of interest to the class is of no interest to you. </p>

<p>Shrug. Don’t know what you’re missing.</p>

<p>Whereas I’m a UC grad and now know what I missed.</p>