<p>An interesting summary of studies on the impact of class size in college. Not what you might think. Bottom line…class sizes under 15 MAY be positive. </p>
<p>In any case, I think it’s largely dependent on the student. Personally, I think I would like a mix…a couple of small and a couple of big classes each semester. All small might be a bit too intense for me. That’s just me though. Some might like all large or all small. I don’t think your preference correlates to your intelligence or your intellectual curiosity. It’s just personal choice…that “fit” thing we keep talking about.</p>
<p>There is nowhere to “hide” at Swarthmore. You can find a few larger classes (my daughter always tried to take one “large lecture class” like an art history course with 35 students, just to balance her week. But, by and large, a student looking to blend in to the shadows in the back of a lecture hall really shouldn’t even consider Swarthmore. Even if you could get by with that approach, it would be missing out on the whole interative approach to education that is the school’s specialty. So why bother?</p>
<p>It’s a lot better suited to the student who enjoys spending time with professors and generally being an active participant. They use the first-year seminars (capped at 12 students) to get new students up to speed with that style of education, even while they are taking their larger introductory courses in some departments.</p>
<p>taxguy: I agree with some of your Swat “negatives,” and I certainly hope I haven’t glossed over them. The (tiny) size is definitely a big deal–a huge positive for me, but a huge negative for many other people. Pre-professional majors are also lacking, for good reason–it is a traditional liberal arts college, though the engineering program is said to provide excellent theoretical breadth and preparation for grad school.</p>
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Bolded for emphasis; this was another catalyst-point for me in comparing Swat to my flagship university. Lack of significant TA interaction is a hallmark of the LAC education.</p>
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Swat’s first-year seminars are limited to 12 students. I believe the upper-level honors seminars have similar caps.</p>
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My AP Lit class this year is 30 students, and the size is a significant impediment–in fact, my teacher complains about it all the time whenever we have to divide up for discussion or group projects. Too many people need to talk in order to seem like they’re participating, but they don’t have anything to say. I frequently find myself wishing that I could pull out the 10 people who actually make original contributions so that we’d have a real discussion. </p>
<p>These things may or may not matter to the OP, and it’s clear that the OP’s parents are pressuring him to attend OSU.</p>
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QFT. I have nothing against Honors programs, and I think they can be absolutely amazing academic experiences–for the right student, ideally one who prefers a university setting and the unique advantages of that setting (e.g. school spirit, not knowing everyone else’s business).</p>
Most liberal arts colleges typically do not attract top, heavy-hitting researchers who are the most well-known in their fields. And most LAC advocates [correctly] say that research skills and prestige are not necessarily good measures of teaching ability. So, tell me: what automatically makes a prof preferable to a TA?</p>
<p>^Because I believe–contrary to my usual cynicism, I know–that LAC administrations do pick professors with an eye to teaching ability. No one is infallible, but differing emphases/priorities do matter.</p>
<p>Why is a prof better than a TA? Simple: more experience, both with teaching in itself and with the subject matter. After all, the profs have all trained as TAs for the undergrads at their grad school universities. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Some students would prefer to work with a famous researcher-professor, even if that professor is more distant in student interaction. Those are the students I would recommend toward universities rather than LACs.</p>
<p>Well, some of us may like to “blend in the shadows” for at least a PORTION of the time (not all). That’s why I think, at least for certain students, quality honors programs are pretty cool. They give you a mix. Nothing like a LAC for sure but they can take away some of the negatives of a huge place. </p>
<p>Regarding opportunities and TAs. Here’s a twist. My DS is a TA at his state flagship. As a undergrad senior. Not in the traditional sense…he doesn’t really do any teaching. But he does help in the lab, handle some presentations, grade papers, and help kids with their problems. A helper really. And a paid one too :). He was a star student in that class. And developed a close relationship with the professor. It’s been a terrific opportunity for him.</p>
<p>They do offer “Jewish studies” courses. They always have. Quite a few courses. They don’t offer a “Jewish Studies” program or major. Just like they don’t offer a “Catholic Studies” program. Or a “Quaker Studies” program. Or a “Southern Baptist Studies” program.</p>
<p>@rcefn: thanks for the insight into the scholarship. I never thought about it that way, and it would definitely be nice to have some extra money in my pocket. Also, I’ve been speaking with a guy in the honors collegium who has similar interests, which has been really helpful. As for your suggestion about setting up an account for the money my parents have saved up, thats a great idea.</p>
<p>@taxguy: thanks for your analysis. I know that neither school is perfect which has made making a decision so tough!</p>
<p>for those who have addressed the question of honors classes: while 25 students does still seem a bit large to me, I guess it’s an improvement over 100+ student classes. I’m not sure about the rigor of any of these courses yet (though I hope they’re decently challenging), but I would hazard a guess that they might not be as intense as regular classes at Swarthmore. I guess that might be a trade-off though. Close student-faculty interaction is definitely something I value so I know if I do end up at OSU (havent officially accepted) I’ll definitely try to work hard to establish a relationship with my professors. My cousin suggested researching the faculty in the polisci department to see if any of their areas of expertise were of interest to me. Maybe I’ll try emailing them this weekend to see if they have any interest in facilitating some kind of research project in the fall. I’m guessing it wouldn’t hurt. :-)</p>
<p>Again, thanks for all the suggestions everyone!</p>
<p>I don’t think it would be easy to find two more different places to spend four years.
I am a happy state flagship graduate who has been equally happy to send 2 kids to elite privates.
The advantage to Ohio State of course is cost, range of course offerings, economic diversity in undergraduate experience, and, let’s face it, a much more democratic experience.
At Swarthmore the advantage is money, an elite student body, smaller classes, and a student body with much more ambitious aspirations, which are apt to be catching. The “non-white” student body aspiration is a positive or a negative, depending on your point of view.
My own bias is that Swarthmore is worth the extra money.</p>
<p>noimagination - The “experience” graph (I’m dabbling in dangerous metaphors, given my poor understanding of math) is not linear. Completing a research PhD generally requires the student to TA at least a few courses… so I prefer to learn from people who have already practiced (by TAing as a grad student) and ironed out the initial flaws, so to speak.</p>
<p>diontechristmas - I’ve “had them,” too, in the form of an interdisciplinary team-taught seminar of two long-tenured professors to 18 students. The class was not perfect–what class is?–but the discussion was noticeably better than any of my public high school classes.</p>
<p>I’ve also experienced a 4-person summer course at a third-tier university, and the discussion was not so much boring as nonexistent. Peer quality does matter at least as much as class size; ideally, you would have both.</p>
<p>^Shrug. I reported two very specific anecdotal examples of my own personal experience. I assure you that they were not hybridized or fabricated.</p>