<p>briguy, I graduated from the University of Michigan and my son from Williams so I have a fairly good insight into the differences between an enormous State U and a small liberal arts college. </p>
<p>First, put the money to the side. I know $13K per year is a sizeable amount of money to a lot of people and I don’t want to sound condescending, but believe me ten to twenty years hence you won’t see it as a deal breaker.</p>
<p>Second, visit Swarthmore. Small LACs are not for everyone. Swarthmore is not for everyone. But those who like it, love it. It’s an emotional, visceral response. I don’t think you could find two more disparate social and academic cultures than Ohio and Swarthmore. You simply *must *prefer one to the other, and you will do best in the environment that you feel most at home in. </p>
<p>You can get an excellent education at a large University, especially in the honors program; however, big schools come with big bureaucracy and stressed out budgets. The rule that rules is that the squeaky wheel gets the most attention. If you’re prepared to be aggressive, you will get what you need. At Swarthmore it will come to you.</p>
<p>Although I received an excellent education at Michigan – and the satisfaction of having my alma mater is recognized all over the world – I feel that it was the wrong school for me at the time. Now that I’ve lived a bit I could go back and take advantage of everything that a large university offers, but for an introverted 17 year old, the experience was overwhelming.</p>
<p>My son’s experience at Williams on the other hand was overwhelmingly positive. From the day he stepped foot on campus he was swept along in the academic and social wave. Internships, post graduate jobs, graduate school – with the wonderful LAC network and support system everything fell into place. </p>
<p>Your post struck a cord with me. My son is also in this dilemma. Ohio State vs. a very small LAC with good merit aid. Depending on the day, either one was on top since acceptances came out. He debated the merits of both, and in the end, it came down to the feeling that if he was at such a small school, everyone would know his business. If you broke up with a girl, it would be all over campus by noon. He felt that once people got to know you, like high school, perhaps you would be “locked” into always fulfilling that role. He is the type of kid that always has a myriad of friends- from fellow AP kids, to the jocks, to the artsy, to the kids who are in the car mechanic program. He felt at a larger school, he could move more easily between all these worlds. He did love the small LAC, though, and he would have been fine there also. I guess you just have to finally make a decision. It seems like he loved batting the two schools around for weeks, but now it is crunch time. </p>
<p>Go with your gut feeling. It is usually never wrong. Good Luck!</p>
<p>so the difference in what you have to pay is not $13,000 - it is $15,000/yr since your work study should count as money that will be paid by you and your family, just like a loan.</p>
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<p>That said, I would still take Swarthmore over Ohio State for $15,000/yr</p>
<p>If you can swing the $13K/yr, Swat is a great place (you already know that). I went to a small undergrad an a huge grad U (small program in large U). I still feel a stronger connection to my small undergrad many, many MANY years later. FWIW. </p>
<p>Both are great options, but IMO, if you can handle the $13k/yr , especially w/o loans, I’d do it. It is a once in a lifetime experience.</p>
<p>First, as others have said you have to really spend a lot of your decision time on this in considering LARGE school versus SMALL school. I have been to both, the environments are significantly different.</p>
<p>I am from Ohio. I was born and raised a HUGE Ohio State fan. I live in Florida now but try to go to 1-2 Ohio State sporting events every year. Although I went to the University of Maryland for college, I made many college trips to OSU to hang out with the numerous high school friends that went to OSU. I love Ohio State, just so that you know in hearing my next opinion.</p>
<p>With all of that said. If you are still stuck after considering environments. In MY opinion (that is all it is, my opinion), there is no way I would recommend my son or any other kid to go to OSU before Swarthmore. I do believe that you will become a much better graduate candidate from Swarthmore. I also think Swarthmore carries a lot of weight on a resume, much more than OSU Honors.</p>
<p>“I do believe that you will become a much better graduate candidate from Swarthmore. I also think Swarthmore carries a lot of weight on a resume, much more than OSU Honors.”</p>
<p>This is a misleading way to state the issue. True, so long as all other things are equal a Swat degree carries more weight than an OSU degree (at least with some people; even the most prestigious LACS do not carry Ivy weight with a substantial number of decisionmakers in the workplace). But all other things are probably not going to be equal. We are talking about a student who almost certainly projects to be a star at OSU, while predicting how anyone will rank at a school like Swat is virtually impossible. And I would repeat, the top students at OSU will have virtually the same opportunities as any Swat student, and probably better opportunities than the run of the mill Swat student.</p>
<p>^^^^^
It is my opinion that if 2 kids graduated with identical GPA, identical graudate school testing scores and identical ECs. 1 from OSU Honors and 1 from Swarthmore. Regardless of class rank, the Swarthmore kid would get preference in admissions to the graduate school the majority of the time. NOT ALL OF THE TIME, but the majority of the time.</p>
<p>There aren’t statistics to prove it, but as I said, I do believe a Swarthmore degree carries more weight than OSU.</p>
<p>I agree with rjpfl5 on grad school admissions. Swat will carry much more weight than OSU with a graduate admissions committee. Part of getting into graduate school IMO is having a mentor who supports and pushes your application with a particular department. You’re more likely to develop a mentor relationship at a place like Swat. Re–small faculty and small classes that may turn out to be duds–don’t forget that Swat is part of the tri-co, so it’s not just Swat that’s open to you. You can take classes at Haverford and Bryn Mawr. Possibly Penn–I know that Bryn Mawr students can take courses at Penn, if those courses aren’t available through the tri-co. As a graduate of a huge Big 10 U (Michigan), I’m a fan of small LACs. My kids/stepkids had great experiences at small LACs (Bryn Mawr, Bowdoin, Kalamazoo College, and Tufts). All of them have or are (one is still in college) going on to excellent grad/business schools.</p>
<p>My daughter was in the same situation, different schools. She ended up at state u for the following reason. With a everything paid for by the university, then there is extra parent money for the perks, such as study abroad, living away from home at exciting internship locations, and travel. If you go to Swathmore and your parents have to pay $15,000 a year, will any money be available for the the extra’s you may want to participate in?</p>
<p>The atmospheres of these 2 places are so different that I think your visits will lead you to the right conclusion for your personality. Swat is a great school, with easy access to a major city and an exchange program with other top schools. OSU is much larger and has the attraction of big time sports. Swat prides itself more than any other LAC on how rigorous it is. OSU honors carries great weight in Ohio if you wish to return home.</p>
Study abroad at Swarthmore costs exactly the same as studying there, regardless of actual program cost. All fin aid goes with the student.
Another thing that is “different” about Swarthmore is that all on-campus events are free for students.
Also, they provide free space to store your stuff in the summer. This should not, of course, be a reason to choose one school over another, but it does save a lot of money and/or headaches every year.</p>
<p>2) If your parents are truly OK with the money, then the money is not an issue, except for point #1, I also don’t want to sound condescending, but 15K per year is not a huge amount even for most middle class families.</p>
<p>3) Swat is an excellent school, very academic, VERY highly regarded in the right circles, but is a VERY LACish LAC, has a quite distinct personality, even for a LAC. In other words, you couldn’t be comparing two more different places.</p>
<p>4) I seldom say this, and I hesitate to say it, because this is the imternet and this observation may not be helpful, but… in your post you sound like someone who would get the most out of your opportunity at OSU. Not that you wouldn’t take advantage of what would be a tremendous education at Swat, but I think the perceived disadvantage of OSU Honors over an academic LAC like Swat are best overcome by someone who is focused, extroverted and has at least some plan going into the program of where he wants to go - you come across in that way. My 2 cents…don’t flame me Interesteddad, you may remember I came pretty close to having a Swattie, too.</p>
<p>briguy, early on you mentioned that the scholarship would likely be renewable for four years- I don’t know anything about Swarthmore but is this merit or need based aid? If need based, it can fluctuate and could possibly include loans in the future (unless Swarthmore doesn’t include loans in aid packages). I believe some schools that were previously “no loan” have now gone back to including loans in their packages (Dartmouth may be one). </p>
<p>I think the OSU opportunity sounds like a fantastic one. You have two very excellent options and I wish you good luck in deciding!</p>
<p>Look closely at the financial aid and scholarships at each school. Most scholarships are fixed and do not go up with a rise in tuition or rise in R&B. A 1/2 or full tuition scholarship is a different story. They usually follow price increases. What looks like 13K out of pocket today or the first year may be significantly more by the time you graduate. Same with OSU.</p>
<p>Swarthmore is 100% loan-free for all financial aid packages. </p>
<p>Swarthmore guarantees to meet 100% of the need for all students for all four years. Whatever the formula says from your financial filings is what you will be asked to pay.</p>
<p>Swarthmore’s need-based aid is formula is adjusted upwards to match any future price increases. It would also be adjusted to reflect changes in a family’s need. So, generally speaking, if income goes down or a second child goes to college, aid will increase. If income goes up, then aid would decrease accordingly. Again, generally speaking, families will not see an increase in their expected contribution over four years unless they have a change in finanical situation: new job, lost job, and so forth.</p>
<p>1) Everything at Swarthmore is free (except Pub Night which is $5). All concerts, events, activities, etc. are free to all students without exception. This is a Swarthmore policy to ensure that financial aid students feel like they have exactly the same opportunities.</p>
<p>2) Swarthmore’s study abroad deal is extremely advantageous to financial aid students. You exact deal continues. If you are paying $14k to Swarthmore, then you keep paying $14 to Swarthmore. Swarthmore pays the study abroad program, writes you a check for airfare (if necessary), and in most cases writes you a check to cover incidentals, meals, etc. Swarthmore’s pre-approved list of study abroad programs includes hundreds of the top study abroad programs in the world. It’s as good a list as you will ever see and includes many programs that cost as much or more than a semester at Swarthmore.</p>
<p>3) Because of the huge per student endowment (top 12 in the country of all universities and colleges), Swarthmore has large amounts of money for student stipends: summer research, summer community service, and so forth. For example, Swarthmore funded a grant for my daughter’s community service program one summer. I don’t think finding money for the “extras” is difficult at Swarthmore. As I said in my initial post, I don’t believe you will find a college that is more student- focussed or that invests more financial resources in undergrad students.</p>
<p>^My daughter spent 2 summer at Swarthmore doing research, and getting a stipend that covered all her expenses (and she was a full-pay student during the school year)
She was a humanities major, which makes this situation much more unusual (in general, getting research grants is much easier for science majors)</p>