<p>I believe you need to visit both and get a feel for each environment. Assuming you can find similar courses & dedicated profs at each institution, it may come down to things like extracurriculars. Do you want to continue playing an instrument, singing a capella, or doing taekwondo in college?</p>
<p>Talk about the yin/yang of colleges! I looked at the OSU Flagship Program link you posted and was impressed with the amount of study done in China-a full three semesters +. As to class size, Chinese Language is a small department in most colleges so even at OSU there will be an intimate feel within the department. As to class size in the Chinese department, in Spring 2010 there were 22 classes offered with the largest section having 18 students enrolled and 8 having less than 10 students. There were two courses offerred to the university at large, Chinese Lit in translation and calligraphy which enrolled 43 and 22 students respectively.</p>
<p>Tenured faculty resources at OSU are significantly larger than Swarthmore too.</p>
<p>Stating the obvious, the caliber of student at Swarthmore is significantly better and the overall academic/social atmosphere will be vastly different, setting aside the Honors Program courses at OSU. If this is important to you the investment of $13k/yr is definitely worth it. And if there is any possibility that you might change majors and opt out of the Flagship Program Swarthmore is an even more attractive choice.</p>
<p>Both choices look attractive to me and seem to be with you.ood luck and I hope this post is of some help.</p>
<p>It is “The Ohio State University” (not “Ohio State University”) 
Swatties are a pretty unique breed - - as other posters have said, you need to visit to get the vibe. I have two cousins who went there who were VERY intense and intelligent science students. They both adored it; one went on to be a doctor with the Indian Health Service, and the other is a physics professor. Visit before you decide, for sure. </p>
<p>Just an FYI, I went to a large public university (just a few miles north of “The” OSU ). You will have a LOT of course offerings at OSU, but the quality of teaching is definitely hit and miss compared to LACs like Swat (many courses taught by TAs, hard to actually work with professors in the first couple of years, some foreign TAs that can be hard to follow, etc.).</p>
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<p>I’d hesitate to agree with anyone that there is one unequivocally best academic program, bar none. But I could be persuaded that Swat is one of the top 3-5 for liberal arts & sciences. </p>
<p>So I don’t think there’s much of an issue here about the academics. It’s about size and money. As far as size goes, consider that 500 students at a first-rate college is not the same as 500 students in high school. You may not have too much in common with more than 50 or 100 of your HS classmates. At Swarthmore, we’re talking about 500 exceptionally talented young adults. That’s a lot of people to get to know.</p>
<p>As for the money, $1780 sounds like a low earnings target. Between work study and summer employment, something more like $5K-10K should be realistic (especially if you have some skills, such as math or computer programming, to earn more than minimum wage.) That leaves about $5K-$10K to be covered by some combination of loans and family help. </p>
<p>I think the decision should be resolved by your visits. If Swat feels right, the size and money should not stand in the way. If OSU feels right, then the money is all the more reason not to hesitate. If you’re still on the fence after your visits, you could try persuading Swat to up their offer. Maybe email them the OSU numbers.</p>
<p>Swat is one of the few LAC’s that I think begins to approach the caliber of Smith. (Just said that to check ID’s blood pressure.)</p>
<p>It has an <em>outstanding</em> academic reputation. </p>
<p>I’ve undergone a mild evolution on the whole prestige issue between the time D applied and now, two years after graduation. Swat is one of those schools where your resume will tend to float into the small stack and you’ll have an easier time getting interviews. There aren’t many like this and OSU isn’t one of them.</p>
<p>Know that at Swat you won’t have a choice: you’ll work your tail off. </p>
<p>Ten years after you graduate, the $$$ differential will seem piddling.</p>
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<p>As luck would have it, I just finished my workout and happen to have a blood pressure monitor on my arm! Hold on…</p>
<p>beep, beep, beep… 126 over 69</p>
<p>Not bad for a fat guy!</p>
<p>Don’t get caught in the drinking atmosphere at either school, esp Swart.</p>
<p>GL.</p>
<p>I agree with the others, visit Swarthmore and see how it strikes you. You may just end up feeling like you just belong there. If not, what a great opportunity you have at OSU! I have one kid at Amherst and one at the honors college of Univ. of Oregon. Truth is, they are both getting an excellent rigorous education. One’s personality is better well-suited to the small liberal arts college environment, the other would get very itchy there. After visiting both, I bet you’ll be able to tell what’s right for you!</p>
<p>ID: Great BP for anyone, especially post-workout. Congratulations.</p>
<p>I don’t have knowledge of OSU, but at the large state flagship I am familiar with, the honors program looks a lot better on paper than it is in reality. One might get a few courses that are smaller, but most of the classes aren’t honors, and an honors program certainly doesn’t turn a huge state university into anything approaching an LAC. </p>
<p>Swat for $13K is a very good value, IMO.</p>
<p>I am biased. I have one who graduated from Swat and one admitted for the fall who just returned home from an overnight at Swat. The head of the college counseling department at our high school, with well over 25 years of experience in the field says, “You will not get a finer undergraduate education ANYWHERE in the country than you will at Swarthmore and Amherst.” This statement is coming from someone who heads a college counseling office of a high school which sends MANY students to HYP each year.
This high school is now starting to send 3-6 students per year to Swat from a class of ~175.</p>
<p>As others have stated, all the activities, concerts, movies, etc. at Swarthmore are free to all students. It’s the Quaker way. I was shocked when I looked at other colleges with my son and realized as the student tour guides spoke about great bands coming to campus that it cost the students another $20-$30 per concert.</p>
<p>You can take classes at Haverford, Bryn Mawr and Penn is you want to, but in truth, a relatively small percentage of Swatties do that because they find that they don’t even have the time to take all the classes they would like to take at Swat.</p>
<p>My Swat graduate is currently in a Ph.D. program at a top 5 university in his field, a very well-known school. He has told me that the Honors Seminars at Swarthmore were better than his first couple of years graduate student seminars. Better discussion, smarter students at Swat. It’s a really unique place and IMHO cannot be compared even with an Honors Program at a large state university. I have learned from kids of friends who have gone to large State U.'s and been in Honors Programs that you may be in a couple of classes designated as Honors, but certainly not all your classes.</p>
<p>Finally, if you are thinking of grad school of any sort, it is crucially important to become close to several of your professors who can guide you with your applications, write recommendations for you, etc. I KNOW that you can get this at Swat. Can you get this at OSU? Good luck with your decision!</p>
<p>My husband and I have been discussing this recently. My D will have a choice between a nearly full ride at UNC-CH plus honors vs small LAC (Williams vs Swat vs Haverford vs Davidson vs Smith). After she goes on some overnights at different schools, if she finds that she “loves” the LAC environment, my H and I agreed it’s worth the money to send her to a small LAC. Like you, she’s worked hard to put herself in a position to go to a small LAC which, in my opinion, gives the best undergraduate education. LAC financial aid packages are coming in anywhere for expected family contribution from 16K to almost 30K/year. Which LAC will probably have a lot to do with financial aid packages.</p>
<p>momof3sons makes a great point about how Swat prepares you for grad school. My son (2008 Swat alum) is going back to grad school this Fall and he could not be happier with how his professors helped him in the process. They all went above and beyond to help him out, with counselling, recommendations etc. He was in email contact with them for all of these 2 years. Many met him for lunch/dinner at Swarthmore and in NYC when they were visiting there to talk to him. He has also taken graduate classes at a top school while working and he can still see the difference in the quality of his experience. Of course, I would not want to generalize from that limited experience of his (regarding the experience of learning at the top school vs. Swat).</p>
<p>Thank you so much for all of your responses; it’s been really helpful hearing opinions from both sides. I guess I only recently realized that a majority of my classes will not be with other honors students. Even in the 500-level classes I could potentially take as a freshman at a big state school, many might not even have the honors-designation. </p>
<p>I guess what I find extremely important in my undergraduate career is to be able to establish a close relationship with faculty members, not only for the purposes of understanding the challenging material I am likely to encounter, but also for the purposes of receiving help through the graduate school admissions process. At a state school, as many of you have said, professors may be bombarded with requests from many other students, as well as being tied up in their own research commitments. </p>
<p>What I’m looking for in an academic institution is the ability to carry on a conversation about a topic learned in class or through other discussions outside of the classroom. Thus, diversity is important to me. I am sure that at both institutions, I will be able to meet a diversity of people with varying interests, which is definitely a plus.</p>
<p>I think before my visit to Swarthmore or immediately after, I will contact the financial aid office to see if possibly my award could be increased by a little. I am happy with the two awesome opportunities I have and I know that ultimately my decision will rest on my visit as well as my parents’ determination of how their retirement will be affected.</p>
<p>Brian</p>
<p>Dear Stranger, </p>
<p>I’m just another student – but I think that you should visit Swarthmore, experience as much of the environment as you can, and after you come back this weekend, really think about which one feels right to you. Saving a bit of money, especially since they’ve offered you quite a good amount of cash, will never make up for missed opportunities. And that’s the stuff that I see my friends who are already in college regretting. </p>
<p>That’s the reasoning I used, even though it has been one of the toughest decisions I’ve had to make. </p>
<p>It’s cheesy enough, but go with your heart.</p>
<p>I know 3 kids who went to schools similar to or lower ranked than OSU. All have worked really hard for 4 years, and now 2 in medical schools and 1 at the top university for a PhD. It really depends on what you want for the next 4 years.</p>
<p>Hi everyone. I just wanted to bump this thread one last time before I make my decision. I visited Swarthmore about a week or two ago and I found the campus to be extremely beautiful. Also, the people were extremely friendly and were all very welcoming. I still have some qualms about attending a small liberal arts college, but I was wondering if anyone with experience with liberal arts colleges could tell me about the breadth of research opportunities at a place like Swat? I know that the institution has lots of summer research grants but that’s about all I’m aware of. If it helps, I’m interested in doing international relations/political science research. Thanks!</p>
<p>Brian</p>
<p>I know that my daughter’s friend did a lot of extensive psych research at Penn over the summers that was fully funded by Swarthmore.
Poli Sci is a very strong department at Swat, so I am sure they have a lot of research opportunities.
[Swarthmore</a> College :: Political Science :: Democracy Project](<a href=“http://www.swarthmore.edu/x25452.xml]Swarthmore”>http://www.swarthmore.edu/x25452.xml)
[Swarthmore</a> College :: Political Science :: Political Science](<a href=“http://www.swarthmore.edu/politicalscience.xml]Swarthmore”>Political Science :: Swarthmore College)
I am sure you can contact the department and ask about it.</p>
<p>Political Science, Economics, and international relations are Swarthmore’s signature fields. It is the number one per capita producer of future Economics PhDs in the United States. The number one per capita producer of future Political Science PhDs in the United States. And the number one per capita producer of all future social science PhDs in the United States.</p>
<p>You will have ample opportunity for exploring these fields. For example, you could research the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan every week by talking to sources you develop in each country and producing your own segments for War News Radio:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.warnewsradio.org/[/url]”>http://www.warnewsradio.org/</a></p>
<p>Or, you could start an anti-genocide non-profit, to Darfhur for MTV News, be a panelist at the Clinton Global initiative, and travel to Washington a group of students, all meeting with their home state Senators:</p>
<p>[Stephanie</a> Nyombayire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephanie_Nyombayire]Stephanie”>Stephanie Nyombayire - Wikipedia)</p>
<p>You will certainly have unlimited opportunity for research abroad during your study abroad semester or during Swarthmore funded summer research. For example, you could do this study abroad program where you travel to megacites on three continents and do independent group research in each one on issues of globalization and urban development. It’s $26,500 per semester this year, but you just pay whatever you are paying to Swarthmore (after financial aid) and they pay for the program plus send you a check for miscellaneous expenses:</p>
<p>[International</a> Honors Program: Cities in the 21st Century](<a href=“http://www.ihp.edu/page/cities/]International”>http://www.ihp.edu/page/cities/)</p>
<p>Or, you could do the Peace Program study abroad in Northern Ireland. Or the independent study program in Argentina, or on and on and on. Swarthmore’s approved list includes the top two hundred or so study abroad programs in the world.</p>
<p>Social science majors at Swarthmore are all strongly encouraged to take statisitics and research methods courses. Depending on your major, those courses will likely include a group research project, sometimes field based.</p>
<p>Depending on your major and whether or not you opt for the honors program, you will likely be writing a senior thesis one on one with your faculty advisor. This will be original research.</p>
<p>Basically, the whole four years at Swarthmore for a social science major is spent learning how to do social science research. That’s the whole ball game. It’s the focus of the entire school and the opportunities are essentially limitless for a motivated student.</p>
<p>First, congrats on the OSU Presidential scholarship! They only give out 10 of those a year, so that’s quite an achievement.</p>
<p>My daughter was in a somewhat similar bind. Her final two schools were Ohio State with a small (Maximus) scholarship, and a local small LAC with a good scholarship/aid package. Our end costs ended up being almost identical for the two schools, and both were affordable without loans - at least for this year.</p>
<p>It’s SO hard to choose between two such different schools. The LAC isn’t Swarthmore level, but it’s very respectable. We really liked the friendly atmosphere, personal attention, and flexible programs, but my daughter was afraid it might be too small and limiting. OSU’s wealth of opportunities is its strong suit - but it might be too big and impersonal. </p>
<p>I don’t think the Honors classes at OSU were a big factor for my daughter, although Honors scheduling preference and Honors housing were. </p>
<p>My daughter’s acceptance confirmation and deposit just went out in the mail today - to Ohio State.</p>