<p>Brian, My daughter recently made the decision between Williams and UNC honors that gave her mostly a full ride of COA. She chose the LAC because she felt it would provide for more research opportunities and the best undergraduate education in the country. As Quakers and fans of LACs love Swarthmore. They just offered significantly (5 figures) less grant money. </p>
<p>Best of luck. If you can afford it, pick the school, not the scholarship. It’s the advice I gave my daughter.</p>
<p>D also received a fat scholarship from OSU this year - she applied predominantly on the strength of OSU’s Chinese program as her interests are very similar to yours. So on that topic we gathered a lot of information, and in our assessment (please only take it for what it’s worth), OSU offers one of the top 3 Chinese Language programs in the country east of the Mississippi. In fact, they do offer an option for one on one courses with your language professor - I don’t think you can have a class any smaller than that :). OSU also offers a liason program where they will match you up with a mentor in China responsible for helping you secure internships and work experiences specific to your interests in China. Lastly, depending on how you progress, they have a 5 year Chinese Language Master’s degree. </p>
<p>I know you have some additional interests which I cannot comment on, but in terms of Chinese Language studies, Swat offers a good program for an LAC, but it is not nearly as robust or resource rich as what OSU offers. </p>
<p>That said, D ultimately turned down the scholarship at OSU to attend elsewhere for other reasons. However, given the strength of OSU’s program (we were really impressed), it was a very difficult decision. Good luck!</p>
<p>Tough call. I think you need to think about how important Chinese studies is to the whole equation. When I hear that you are interested in other languages as well and might want to dabble a bit, my sense is that you could have a lot of interests and those interests might change over time (which is quite natural). </p>
<p>As I have sons attending both LAC and large universities, my only biases are around value and fit. That said, if you see yourself as intellectually curious more than academically focused, I would suggest Swarthmore.</p>
<p>Thanks for the insight into research, nngmm and ID. I guess my considerations of both schools rest on how prepared I will be for grad school. I’m pretty fuzzy on whether or not a name like Swarthmore will get me into a better grad school than OSU, if college really is what you make of it. As I’d be a part of the honors collegium, my friend tells me that this group would help me network with many top professors at OSU, which is critical for getting good recommendations in grad school. I’m also stuck because I’m not entirely sure if I could justify having my parents spend around 13k per year if I might be considering law school and if my plans for the future aren’t entirely clear yet. But appreciate all of your input all the same.</p>
<p>@ctyankee: I’m not sure about your distinction between intellectual vs academic focus. I like working hard and appreciate being challenged. While I want to do well academically, I’m also really interested in international affairs and learning about all its intricacies and global politic’s role in influencing individual lives…if you understand what I mean.</p>
<p>Brian</p>
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<p>Just to be clear, that option is advertised as a self-study track and consists primarily of learning from language tapes. I’m sure it’s a great option, but I don’t think it’s quite the same as an individual tutor!</p>
<p>One thing that anyone insterested in languages (or international relations) should do is closely look at the study abroad options available.</p>
<p>Here is Swarthmore’s list for the non-English speaking world:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.swarthmore.edu/Admin/ofs/planning/nonenglishspeaking.html[/url]”>http://www.swarthmore.edu/Admin/ofs/planning/nonenglishspeaking.html</a></p>
<p>In mainland China, they offer eight options, includiing the Beijing program run by Hamilton, Swarthmore, Oberlin, Williams and others and the long-standing program that used to be the Stanford University program, now coordiated by UC-Berkeley.</p>
<p>No, I wrote “intellectually curious more than academically focused.” By that I mean some kids know what they want and focus on and are driven by that goal. It’s not got anything to do with their intellect and all to do with their focus. With other kids it’s not about targets or focus as much as they just like learning for learning and finding their way through broad exploration. </p>
<p>If you can figure which of those types you are more like, you it may help decide what school is a better fit. </p>
<p>Networking occurs at all schools and throughout life. So this is a complete non-factor. Recommendations are important but nothing more important than getting a great G.P.A. Swarthmore is not going to help you get a great G.P.A. nor are they going to help you get a great recommendation. Those results rest solely on your shoulders and can be achieved at either school. </p>
<p>So, it still comes down to fit and finances.</p>
<p>I can’t tell your family how to make a $13,000 a year decision. Nobody here can do that.</p>
<p>I can tell you that, after visiting, and after knowing that Swarthmore is a future PhD factory, if you are concerned about whether a Swarthmore degree will be good for getting into grad school, you should probably go to Ohio State. I’m not trying to be a smart alec, but it’s kind of like wondering if Tiger Woods really knows anything about hitting a golf ball. Getting people into top grad schools is what Swarthmore does. A more legitimate question would be whether a student who has zero interest in grad school should choose Swarthmore. That’s at least a valid question. Swarthmore as a stepping stone to top grad schools is not really even up for debate.</p>
<p>Don’t know if this helps but my neighbor had the Presidential Award at OSU and studied Linguistics. She had a great time and went abroad to do research with professors multiple times. She got a great financial offer to her first choice, Northwestern, for grad school. </p>
<p>IMO take the offer from OSU, students love it there and you will have great opportunities through the Honors Program!</p>
<p>I agree with Interesteddad here. If you really feel more comfortable with OSU, you should go there. But Swarthmore has a great reputation with graduate schools and that is known among the universities in this country, no matter that Swarthmore does not have as much name recognition as some other elite schools. I am speaking from first hand experience because my son is going back to graduate school in Fall 2010 and being from Swarthmore most definitely helped him out.</p>
<p>Whoa, $13,000 per year is at least $52,000 paid over four years. Moreover, there will be tuition increases at Swathmore which will cost you another estimated $8,000 above this unless your scholarship will increase as tuition costs go up,which I would doubt is the cast. Thus, the real cost is at least $60,000.</p>
<p>An extra $60,000 would pay for a wedding and a down payment on a house.Moreover, OSU is a very fine school with a lot of academic options. In my opinion, Swarthmore isn’t worth $60,000 more than OSU. Go to OSU and never look back.</p>
<p>Thanks everyone. Sorry, I didn’t mean to question Swat’s reputation among top graduate schools. I was just wondering if a high-achieving, involved student from OSU would have similar opportunities. I can certainly see why Swat grads get into elite graduate programs because of its reputation for rigorous academics.</p>
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<p>Both institutions provide ample tools to help you prepare yourself well for grad school. If I were you I would choose the OSU Presidential scholarship, because you’d be among the ten most academically, intellectually, and financially catered to students in a resource rich university system.</p>
<p>No place will prepare you for grad school better than Swarthmore, especially if you do the honors program.
[Swarthmore</a> College | Academics | Honors Program](<a href=“http://www.swarthmore.edu/honors.xml]Swarthmore”>Honors Program :: Swarthmore College)</p>
<p>No “place” prepares you for grad school; you use the tools provided by your school to prepare yourself. And while Swat does a fine job providing those tools to motivated students, MANY other institutions do an equally fine job providing those tools to motivated students.</p>
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<p>That’s not correct. Swarthmore expects you to pay your family contribution. That is based on your family financial situation and does not change with increasing tution. If your family financial situation stayed the same and Swarthmore increased its tution to $85,000 a year, you would still pay the same $13,000. Your out of pocket would not increase.</p>
<p>The out of pocket for students paying full sticker price would obviously go up, but that’s a different scenario.</p>
<p>There are zero fees or out of pocket costs at Swarthmore. We never paid one dime beyond the stated tution, room, board, and activity (which if I recall was $280 a year or so). No hidden fees.</p>
<p>The only extra fee my daughter ever paid was the $4 for all you can drink beer at Pub Nite each week. All other parties and activities and concerts are free.</p>
<p>I do agree that $13,000 a year is a real money and that’s why I would never consider telling some other family how to value that viz-a-viz the value of college. I do know that just in terms of cost of educating each student, Swarthmore is a better deal at $13,000 per year than any state university is at zero cost. Swarthmore spends about $85,000 a year per undergrad, so at $13,000 cost, you are getting a $72,000 a year discount.</p>
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<p>That’s simply not true. The Ohio State University may well provide different tools, but it most certainly does not provide the same tools as Swarthmore College, whether those tools are class size, student/faculty ratios, honors seminars, honors examinations, study abroad options, writing across the curriculum progams, real professors teaching all courses, labs, and discussion groups, and on and on and on.</p>
<p>I agree with your premise that a motivated student can get a good education at any college or university, including a community college. However, even the most motivated student cannot get a Swarthmore education at a large public university. Not possible.</p>
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<p>This goes way too far. It should be no surprise to anyone that really good students may go the PH.D. route and really good schools will have really good students who go the PH.D. route. That’s fine. LAC’s love to talk about how successful they are at getting their pre-med track kids into Medical school (for example). What they leave out is how many of their students self-select out of the track and how many others are ‘advised’ they really should ‘consider other options.’ Switching to PH.D programs - the truth is that being a middle-of-the-pack student at a top LAC is not going to get you into the top PH.D. programs any more than a middle-of-the-pack student at Junkwater University. So, where ever you go, get great grades, great research, great recommendations and great entrance exam scores is the name of the game. </p>
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<p>Let’s just tackle one of these elements. What study abroad options does Swarthmore have that Ohio State does not? </p>
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<p>Forgive me for bringing this up, but we are talking about some young man’s future here. Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t your son’s experience the very opposite of what Interestedad is referring to - that of Swarthmore being a PH.D. factory? Isn’t he an example of a Swarthmore grad who did not get into any of the PH.D. programs he applied to? </p>
<p>I have a very strong opinion of Swarthmore - I just think the pro-Swarthmore arguments need a little more balance.</p>
<p>I don’t know why people get so exercised about “real professors” teaching classes. Some tenured professors are, frankly, boring lecturers. They may be more interested in their own research, writing, and publishing than in teaching freshmen.</p>
<p>And I have had some great grad students as either teachers or TA’s. They were on their way to having a graduate degree, related well to young people, and were excited by the subject matter.</p>
<p>So there you go.</p>
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<p>That wasn’t the question. The question was whether or not grad schools know Swarthmore and whether Swarthmore is a known quantity for top grad school admiissions.</p>
<p>I stand by my answer. That is what Swarthmore is known for. It’s like asking if The Ohio State University is really a known quanity for players entering the NFL football draft. </p>
<p>Over 21% of all 3657 Swarthmore graduates in a recent 10 year period got a PhD compared to 2.7% of the 69,239 Ohio State graduates… That doesn’t include the lawyers and doctors in either case. This notion that most of Swarthmore’s grads are getting a mail-order PhD from *Podunk State at East Overshoe * and that’s why the PhD rate is so high just doesn’t hold up when you look at the schools where Swarthmore grads are actually getting their advanced degrees.</p>
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<p>ctyankee, my son applied to 2 PhDs and did not get into them. But he did get into an MA program with financial aid and he’s grateful for that. Please don’t flame me here, and I wasn’t lying about it. His Swarthmore professors helped him and given the immense competition in PhD admissions this year, he is grateful that he is on a path to a PhD program in the future and he has aid.</p>