<p>"Actually ring<em>of</em>fire, Michigan is one of those that is universally recruited by most major firms. There are only a few such schools...maybe 2 or 3 others."</p>
<p>Alexandre, there should be more than 2 or 3.</p>
<p>I think Alexandre is probably right. For recruiting, size matters a lot, all types of companies come to Michigan because of our size and depth of talent.</p>
<p>i thought you were in-state ring<em>of</em>fire - doesnt this imply your dad works in michigan? USC #7 most recruited by a michigan firm? WUSTL #10 anywhere?</p>
<p>even if we ignore the obvious fact that no hr manager would be able make such a list, your claim still makes no sense.</p>
<p>That's true ProudWolverine. Engineering and Ross are obviously more heavily recruited than LSA and LSA is more heavily recruited than the colleges of Music, Arts and Design and Kinesiololgy. That's the case with all universities that have very highly rated and separate colleges Engineering and Business. And starting salaries and professional placement rates for Business and Engineering majors at all schools, including schools like Cornell and Penn, are significantly higher than starting salaries and placement rates for Arts and Science majors. But all students are welcome to career fair events and most companies that recruit at Michigan's CoE or Ross open their interviews to LSA students as well as to students from other colleges. Even at elite universities that do not have separate undergraduate Business programs, such as Chicago, Columbia, Notrthwestern etc..., recruiting firms prefer certain majors, such as Economics, Mathematics, Physics etc...</p>
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<p>And I am not sure how you figure that Michigan trails in class size, quality of teaching, S/F ratio, academic resources or study abroad. Can you prove that all universities report those statistics identically and that those numbers can be interpreted and translated in a linear method? Besides, I fail to see how any of those criteria translates into a great education for the individual. Education is a highly personal matter. For those serious about their education, Michigan will offer more opportunities (academic and professional) than all but a handful of schools. I know for a fact that the education I got at Michigan could have only been duplicated at very few universities.
I fail to see how the Peer Assessment score proves "beyond a reasonable doubt" that Michigan offers a superior undergraduate education. All it means is that university administrators from all across the country, who have very little knowledge in many cases of the current academic strengths of a university and have very little basis to judge, randomly filled out a poll, which asked them to rank schools on a scale of 1 to 5, and Michigan ended up as one of the schools that performed well. What the academic world thinks is THEIR OPINION as well. It has no more or no less basis than yours or mine by virtue of being an opinion. Statistics transcend all our opinions.</p>
<p>On the other hand, class sizes and S/F ratio offer a clear picture of how a great education becomes more accessible to a student by virtue of close interaction with professors/teaching assistants and more discussion style learning environments. Data like endowment money per student and the percentage of students studying abroad show that the university had adequate funding, is allocating its resources effectively and is able to provide its students with cross-cultural learning opportunities, which are vital in today's globalized world. So, is data meaningless too now?</p>
<p>There are at least 20 schools that provide more academic and professional opportunities than Michigan. That is a FACT.</p>
<p>so where does your dad work?</p>
<p>"There are at least 20 schools that provide more academic and professional opportunities than Michigan. That is a FACT."</p>
<p>ring<em>of</em>fire, it evidently pleases you to think so. As always, I don't understand your contribution to this particular forum. This is a Wolverine forum. Posters who seek outsiders' input will post in the general forum. Those who post on the Michigan forum seek the input of Michigan students and alums. But the Michigan faithful are obviously confident in their institution not to mind your posting here.</p>
<p>I think Michigan is a great school Alexandre. Can you honestly tell me in this economy though, that you would rather go to a school like UMich over even UNC? Michigan's economy is in shambles and UMich's tuition costs for out-of-state students are approaching those of elite private schools like Penn and Duke, with much less financial aid to boot.</p>
<p>I love the fact that you are passionate about Michigan, but one must be realistic here and not misinform prospective applicants. Telling students that only HYP are better schools than Michigan is a blatant lie. Can you honestly look at a prospective applicant in the face and tell him that Michigan is on the same level, educational quality and professional prospect wise, as schools like Penn, Dartmouth, Stanford, Duke, etc.?</p>
<p>ring<em>of</em>fire, I am not sure I understand your point about the Economy. One must always attend a university they can afford. I would never recommend Michigan (or any university for that matter) to someone who cannot afford it. Getting into debt to attend a university is never worth it. I have often recommended other schools over Michigan when cost is an issue. You can easily check the records. Most recently, I recommended UIUC over Michigan to an Illinois resident for that reason. </p>
<p>And I do not lie or mislead students. I would not have been asked to be a moderator if I were lying or misleading students. But thanks for the insinuation. I am sure your character is beyond questioning. </p>
<p>Back to your question. I genuinely believe Michigan is on par with several private elites. Brown, Dartmouth and Duke are actually very different in nature and not easily compared to Michigan. Michigan has a lot more in common with Cal, Cornell, Northwestern and Penn. Stanford (and MIT) is actually on par with HYP and better than Michigan. My sentiments are shared by the academic and professional worlds.</p>
<p>UMich is a wonderful school, no doubt. But being from Illinois, it just doesn't make sense to spend that tuition...particularly if you're interested in engineering. We actually talked to an admissions officer from UMich to ask about merit scholarship possibities. We were told in a very honest way that she didn't believe it would be worth it to apply at UMich. "Go to UIUC" she told us, and then come back for grad school where there would be more scholarship possibilities. Apparently the most we could attain for undergrad scholarships was 5-10 K per year....definitely not worth it!</p>
<p>I feel bad for all of you guys! I'm from a public school in Michigan and U of M is regarded as "the average school for the smart kids." In state makes UMich really easy! (28 ACT, 1900 SAT, 3.6 GPA) I know its a great school-- but I just DON'T want to go there! I know I'll get in...</p>
<p>If you want to set yourself apart where I'm from, it looks better to go somewhere like Notre Dame, Loyola, etc. even though they're clearly not as good. I'm so sorry guys! Out of state makes this school so competitive! Yay for state tax money :D</p>
<p>Okay, nish13, I'm from in state, and it is not as "easy" to get in as it used to be. The average GPA is 3.9- (you definitely wouldn't get in with a 3.6) and you should probably have an ACT above 28 to be competitive for Michigan. I go to a very competetive high school in michigan, and to everyone there considers Michigan a very good school.....:/</p>
<p>yay, for another high school senior know-it-all. if u have 28 ACT/1900 SAT and 3.6 GPA instate, chances are you will not get in. do you actually look up the umich admissions website, or any statistics or did your cousin get into umich with a 1900 SAT and you just assumed everyone there has a 1900 SAT. </p>
<p>28 and 1920 are the 25th percentile of those admitted. 86% of the students in last year's freshman class had 3.6 or higher. In other words, with those stats, even if you do get in, you are among the bottom 20%.</p>
<p>loyola isn't close to being as good as michigan. people go to loyola because it's in chicago... why waste your money and go out of state when you could get a better education here...</p>
<p>Michigan has some very substantial merit awards for exceptional students. My daughter met quite a few in the honors program with LS&A scholarships, Shipman Scholarships and the Stamps Scholarships, all of which are close to a full ride I think. It is at least worth the price of the application with your son's stats, IMHO/. You should also look a the past threads on CC as there were several posters whose kids got big merit aid from UMich.</p>
<p>Thanks Fredmar....but I think he is done with my ideas and thoughts on where to apply! He has applied to 4, and is working on the remaining 6 for a grand total of 10. That's enough I think. It has been REALLY hard to limit the schools....We just finally decided that UMich (as great as it is) is just too similar to UIUC, our state school. (and my alma mater, I might add...)</p>
<p>I know how that can be. Good Luck, I'm sure your son will end up with great choices by the end of the process.</p>