Packaging a plodder for admission

Parents Forum
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<p>I get where the OP is coming from. I have a similar kid. Wonderful child, but one who will always have to work hard for good grades.</p>

<p>My advice-</p>

<p>-Take a look at the list of test optional schools. There is a wide range of choices for kids whose performance exceed their testing. Her strong grades will serve her well.</p>

<p>-Expose her to, but do not push, less standard ECs. For instance, there are a million kids out there who’d like to be recruited for soccer but the number of recruitable fencers or rowers is substantially less. Kids can still pick up these sports in high school and have the potential to be recruited for college. Of course, if she has no interest or aptitude even these less common sports won’t have an impact on her admissions process, but it doesn’t hurt to do a 1-week learn to row program or fencing camp. Look for similar opportunities in the arts or academics.</p>

<p>-Let her pursue the activities and intellectual areas in which she’s expressed interest but look for ways to take those pursuits sideways. For instance, as blossom suggested, if she’s interested in computer programming but doesn’t have the aptitude for it she may want to get involved in something like web design. I have a kid who developed an athletic interest for which she wasn’t suited. We let her pursue it regardless but looked for ways to leverage both her interests and talents. It let to an academic interest for which she also wasn’t particularly well suited. That interest, however, led to an arts/business interest which I anticipate may make some schools pay attention. If we had pushed her on the original athletic interest I expect she would have burned out and dropped out without ever discovering her meandering path to her current pursuit.</p>

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<p>There is no new story, ssseamom. Plodders do get work done, they just move more slowly and require a yoke to keep them in the correct path. I never said D hadn’t succeeded or that I didn’t expect future success. I talked about her good grades in advanced classes in my first post, didn’t I? I also mentioned her EC’s, but said they were typical ones.</p>

<p>This forum is really becoming too confrontational. The need to defend oneself is exhausting.</p>

<p>Thanks for the helpful comments. I like the sideways idea. </p>

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<p>People who like computers and physics often like puzzles (of all kinds). So- law enforcement/forensics? There are criminal justice programs within commuting distance of where I think you live, GFG. All kinds of companies hire folks for roles in fraud detection (ranging from clerical/hourly all the way up to SVP). And this is a career area where not being neurotypical is likely not an obstacle to advancement.</p>

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<p>I appreciate the clarification. I like the sideways idea, too. You love your daughter and want what is best for her, but are trying to be realistic. </p>

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<p>Since your daughter is not destined for highly selective schools, I really don’t think that she’ll have a big problem with college admissions (OK, these may be famous last words, but I’ll continue anyway.) There are dozens of really good LACs out there – not national brands, but local/regional schools. They have pots of merit money – and assuming your daughter stays on track, she’ll have good stats. I have a friend whose son had a C average in high school and not great SATs (as in, high 400s, low 500s), she was uncertain if he’d get into any schools – and she was shocked, absolutely shocked, when he not only was accepted but got a merit package, too. If he got merit, I would think your daughter can too.</p>

<p>At most of these lower tier schools, you just don’t need the same well-crafted package as the highly selective schools. And I think the “packaging” should happen as the application is being written. Guide, suggest, let your kid go her own way – whatever, but when it comes time to do the application, that’s when you look at the whole picture and figure out how to best present the kid. </p>

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<p>My younger son did Science Olympiad for four years despite having no intention of being a science major. He did it because it was fun, his friends were doing it, and he found his niche of events that he was good at. I don’t think it hurt him in admissions. He did not do Model UN though he was a future IR major because those kids were the drinkers. I didn’t know it at the time, but as far as I’m concerned I’m glad he hung out with a more sedate nerdy crowd.</p>

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<p>I have been on CC for years, and there have always been incisive comments. I saw that as a positive thing when it forced people to be truthful, clear and accurate. But really, I’ve noticed a downturn of late in the tone on this forum, which seems to be all about gotchas and nitpicking at other parents, rather than trying to understand and help. Another longtime CCer recently expressed the same when she posted a college question for a friend. A lot of attack. I am saddened that I am being criticized on another thread for my posts on this one–posts I explained. Most parents love their kids and are trying their best to be good parents in tough times. We don’t have it all figured out, and we might not word everything exactly right in our posts to please everyone’s sensitivities. I do hope we can allow people to be honest. Honest isn’t mean, even when the truth is less palatable than a lie would be. So I suppose I must now correct my OP to say my kid is a fantastic, smart, self-starter and I have no qualms she will be admitted to many fabulous schools. No advice necessary. Sorry, I know I’m mostly preaching to the choir, since many of you have been supportive. But I really am sad for new parents about how adversarial CC has become, and feel the need to express that.</p>

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<p>Unless the OP is insistent on a private school, as far as I know admissions is not holistic for colleges who take people in the SAT/grade range of the OP’s daughter; they will be a function of grades and SAT. So you don’t really need to “package” her. </p>

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<p>GFG- I know your kid is fantastic. You have been posting for a long time about the challenges she has had, both “fitting in” as well as academically. So from my perspective it goes without saying that you are looking for creative ideas to take advantage of what she’s good at, and compensate for the areas where she has difficulty.</p>

<p>New topic- has she ever taken a photography class? And I don’t know what her sport is- but has she tried ballroom dancing??? Neighbor of mine with a physically strong/athletic kid who has some social challenges is progressing nicely in the dance circuit. </p>

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<p>@TheGFG, I don’t have any wise advice for you other than the CC mantra, “love the kid on the couch.” But I do have a story about one of my nephews. He’s a very nice kid, but was the kid that everyone was worried about. Clearly had learning disabilities; there was some talk that he fell when he was a baby and that might have caused some damage. Started out at a college which provides good services for LD students. Didn’t have better than mediocre grades there and insisted on transferring to an OOS university known as a real party school with big-time D1 athletic program. How he managed to graduate from there is still unknown.</p>

<p>Unlike your daughter, who sounds pretty “driven” to me, he was not. At some point in high school he got a job, through a friend, as a ball boy for a professional basketball team. He parlayed that into becoming the manager of the college basketball team, and when he graduated with those things on his resume, got an internship with NASCAR. Used that to get hired by a start-up company which had “invented” a new beach sport. Got his next job with another start-up “adventure” company which turned out to become a major company. He found he was really good at convincing corporate sponsors why they should become involved with this company.</p>

<p>He was surrounded at work by grads from all the big name/trophy schools, and certainly felt intellectually inferior. But, he obviously had certain people skills which translated well into convincing corporate sponsors to part with their cash. :slight_smile: He became so good at this job that he was honored nationally as one of 10 marketing execs under the age of 30. He was recruited away from that job within the past year by one of the big TV network sports departments. Now, the “adventure” company wants him back, and he is going to drive a hard bargain with them. He makes a great salary, not that that is the most important thing, but in his case, I think his parents are stunned and grateful that there is no need to worry about him in the long run. He found what he was good at.</p>

<p>I think your daughter will too, with your guidance.</p>

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<p>Considering the title and a feeling a bit of good-hearted levity is needed:</p>

<p>Has your D considered the CIA?:</p>

<p><a href=“Party In The CIA (Parody of "Party In The U.S.A." by Miley Cyrus) (Official 4K Video) - YouTube”>Party In The CIA (Parody of "Party In The U.S.A." by Miley Cyrus) (Official 4K Video) - YouTube;

<p>Yes, I know that’s a bad pun. :D</p>

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<p>@TheGFC - I agree with your summation about the tone here at CC, but I think most of us on here do want to help each other without judgment and sarcasm. I also worry about my youngest having the same opportunities as his sister because he is not an overachiever or a joiner. </p>

<p>And I haven’t seen evidence that my D’s very unusual and strong EC’s have helped in the college process one whit. But she did them because she enjoyed the activities and isn’t happy unless she’s busy. </p>

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<p>^That’s TheGFG. Careful, one more letter and you’ll turn the OP into a purveyor of tasty fried chicken.</p>

<p>Anyway, I wonder if the OP’s daughters insistence on a career in physics or computer science could be related to the pursuits of an older sibling?</p>

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<p>Some more info: D has poor social skills. She is like an Asperger’s kid, though she has never been given that diagnosis officially. While she is progressing in that area, she would currently have a tough time with EC’s that require people skills. That is also why I don’t anticipate her seeking or obtaining leadership positions in a high school setting. </p>

<p>She was quite delayed in fine and gross motor skills, so dancing and other complicated sports like fencing would still be very difficult I think. She can’t jump rope yet, for example (tried again just yesterday). She is doing pretty well in her simple sport, though. </p>

<p>Neither of her siblings are in physics or CS. I am not exactly sure where the interest comes from, outside of having watching a documentary related to physics.</p>

<p>She has overcome her executive function deficiency to a large extent, but would still struggle for a while with brand new demands or a brand new schedule. </p>

<p>She was de-classified, and the school district has made it clear she does not qualify for a 504 either, despite my pleas. So she will not get accommodations for testing.</p>

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<p>GFG, from your first post on this thread and the title, I assumed that your child was a plodder, but still a candidate for the highly selective schools. It is true that those schools do favor the kids who are considered amazingly gifted AND who have the stats. The most selective school have so few seats for all of the candidates that every thing counts, and they do want the exceptional. A plodder is not in that category, because there are simply too many of them, whereas that rare bird, with the intellectual fire power and who has done the work is what these schools want. Their way of taking chances, I guess. </p>

<p>Schools that are not quite so selective will often take a chance on a kid with the super high test scores and high intellectual ability because quite frankly they want those test scores. IT ups their stats in the whole ratings game, and it’s harder to get those high test scores than the good grades. Now we aren’t talking about BAD grades, but kids with a low 3. average without the Ds and only a few Cs, some such school will take if those test scores are up there. One of mine never got an A in high school till last semester senior year, one A but with fives on all the APs, taking a very rigorous course load at a known rigorous school and near perfect SATs, all 6 including the subject tests, he did have some highly selective schools give him a nod. Not so another one of mine whose test scores just weren’t up there, but he had a better gpa improving each term. But his results were not too shabby either, getting into a number of school where he was in the bottom 25% test score wise. He did apply to the Fairtest schools not submitting any test scores at all and was accepted by the 4 schools he chose from that group, all pretty competitive schools for someone with his stats. He also got accepted by all of the state Unis to which he applied. So he did pretty well, IMO. </p>

<p>But, none of my kids had an dxed learning disabilities or had any flag as in terms of cognitive issues and problems. Though I truly fear for some of them when it comes to executive function, organizational skills, and plain old common sense, it’s very clear they can get jobs and support themselves. They can function just fine in society without a quarter given to them.</p>

<p>If you are talking about a child who does have some issues in those areas, it’s a whole other story. These days, I’m seeing a lot of kids going on to college despite any number of diagnoses that may have so prevented them. Being on the spectrum, LDs, mental illnesses, behaviorial problems, specific handicaps…all of these can be addressed to some degree by some programs at some colleges. it might be wise for such as student to stay at home and commute and stay under the protection and patterning of behavior by parents and others who care for them for a few extra years, and slowly make the exodus into independence, a process that I think many “normal” kids could possibly benefit from as well. This press for going away for school is not always the best next step for a high school grad. Maturity can come slowly and painfully for many. </p>

<p>It can get pretty tough at a sleepaway college and even kids who have no signs of any issues to have problems do. The ugly head of mental illness does rear up these young adult years, and the lack of parental rules and the behavior of peers can lead to some kids taking up some things that they cannot handle, but as adults they are expected to do so. You cannot expect a college to be watching over these students. Just not likely to happen, and these kids often can be cruel to each other and instead of helping tear them down if they seem a bit odd or just if they can. These are realities to face as parents, but when you know your child has special challenges, it may be a very bad idea to let that child loose in such a situation.</p>

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<p>I often disagree with GFG, but this time I think she’s right. This family has obviously done an amazing job with this young woman and she gets attacked for selling her kid short. Unreal! </p>

<p>Have you thought of looking into some sort of vocational track program? I’m a big fan of schools like SUNY Cobleskill for this type of kid. <a href=“Academics Overview”>http://www.cobleskill.edu/academics/&lt;/a&gt; You get the whole “college experience,” but you also get vocational training. Or maybe something like Johnson & Wales? <a href=“http://www.jwu.edu/”>http://www.jwu.edu/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Just throwing it out there as a thought…</p>

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<p>Take a look at Mitchell College in CT. It has excellent and well supported programs.</p>

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<p>I think that GFG’s daughter is actually really amazing and driven, and actually, quite accomplished. I know young people with far better starts and no disabilities who have not been able to manage honor classes and AP’s Think of it-a former sped kid is taking AP’s and doing well! I absolutely applaud GFG and family for getting the young lady this far.</p>

<p>What bothered me on the first reading was a tone that I took to mean that this girl was just plodding along, one foot in front of the other, with no real shot at success in life unless she was properly packaged. It really did sound to me like a put down. With more information about her, though, it’s clear that she’s had real support all along.</p>

<p>But I do stand by one thing-I think this kid is capable of far more than people might think-look at how far she’s come already! As with ANY kid, it’s a good idea at that age to suggest a variety of paths-as we always see people suggesting almost everyone changes their major, maybe more than once. But I don’t see suggestions as packaging so much as the guidance she’s already been given and continued in that way.</p>

<p>But maybe OP has little experience with non-tippy top students, so thinks that packaging and stats are where it’s all at. Having watched a passel of nieces, nephews and my own kids go through the process, I can say with complete confidence that it’s entirely possible to get into decent programs without being more than a student who works hard and has no stellar resume or packaging. Decent is not always talked about here, but there’s something to be said for just ok. </p>

<p>Finally, I do think plodding and ox are not the best words to describe one’s child. At my job we are helping a young man who sounds much like the OP’s daughter, but who does not have a supportive family behind him. At 20, he is homeless and struggling. He will never go to college and in fact, graduating high school was iffy, though he made it. And while he needs a ton of direction and supervision to get things done, he is one of the most sincere, driven, intentional person I have ever met. He may be slow and steady, but plodding is not a word I would use. His family chose similar words and he has chosen homelessness over living with them. So maybe that is why I reacted so strongly. Good luck to you, GFG.</p>

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<p>It made me think of the horse-betting episode of Seinfeld. “He loves the slop! His mutter was a plodder! His fodder was a plodder!”</p>

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<p>Ox sounds very odd to my ears. While it has the connotation of being a very hard working, it also has the connotation of meaning someone who is so stubborn & exceedingly stupid they can’t be reasoned with. </p>

<p>That doesn’t seem to be a very good description of OP’s D from what written about her here. </p>