<p>Merlehay, I see you live in Illinois and I had an advisee from a suburb of Chicago who went to a large high school that combined the musical with another high school and so it could be yours for all I know. 90 kids, however, are a lot to have in one production. Our school shows had more like 30 in them. </p>
<p>I agree that those who were finalists for a lead to then not even be put in ensemble sounds nutty. </p>
<p>Here, most kids who want to be in the musical at least get into it I believe.</p>
<p>Wow, I can’t imagine why two high schools would want to combine for a musical. I could understand it if it were two small schools and the casting pool was limited but with 5000 kids? That’s ridiculous, in my opinion. What shows could possibly accomodate a 90 kid cast?? I’m amazed that the licensing company would even allow that. </p>
<p>halflokum, I’ve seen and heard many crazy high school theatre stories in my life but yours may be the craziest! To not allow anyone who auditions for a lead and isn’t cast, to be in the ensemble? Wow. There are no words.</p>
<p>We were very fortunate with the schools that our Ds attended, both the ones who went to the arts school, and the two who didn’t. Neither cast their shows around seniority. It was always the best for the role. Not that everyone always agreed with the casting, but then, when does that ever happen? ;)</p>
<p>One year, I think it was my D’s senior year, the male lead went to a freshman in one of the mainstage musicals (this arts school did 40 productions a year). It was the first time in her years there that a freshman had been cast as a lead in a mainstage. He was amazing. He had been working professionally since he was 6 and he’s gone on to a successful film career in the years since. He was recently in that Titanic mini-series that was on a few weeks ago. I remember a few parents grumbling but the kids all knew that he was deserving and he truly was great in the role.</p>
<p>Try this bittersweet experience…I mentioned upthread that in my D’s final year of high school, she was rehearsing as Ado Annie in Oklahoma. Her boyfriend at the time was playing Will Parker. As mentioned, D was injured badly and hospitalized in intensive care and surgery during the rehearsal period and was out of everything. After three weeks in a hospital bed, her very first time allowed out of a bed was opening night of Oklahoma and she went to our HS to watch her best friend who took over as Ado Annie and her boyfriend as Will Parker and everyone else in what was to have been her last hurrah on that stage (having performed in the high school musicals since 7th grade). That was not easy!</p>
<p>Susan, it’s so many years ago that she was in that awful accident but I remember so well when it happened. And look at all that she’s accomplished since! You and I have been here a long time! :)</p>
<p>This is my first post on CC. Up until now, I have mostly been a lurker, but I think I can offer a few words of wisdom when it comes to handling rejection. I’m 35 now…still a working actor, but doing more and more audition coaching every day which is what brought me to this site to begin with. </p>
<p>In response to the original post about handling rejection…it’s just something that you have to get used to. I don’t mean that to sound flippant, because “getting used to it” is certainly not an easy thing to do as a younger actor. And as a parent who as even less control over the situation, I suppose it’s even harder. Perhaps this is a game of numbers, really. As a high school actor, you have maybe the spring and fall musical/ play, and then one or two community theatre auditions a year. Even in a larger city with a thriving theatre community, at best a student actor is only doing a handful of auditions a year. Their “eggs” really are all in one basket. If they are truly serious about pursuing acting as a career, these auditions really do feel like life or death situations. Not being cast, for whatever reason is a HUGE deal because the next opportunity feels like a lifetime away. </p>
<p>When you are finally out of school, auditioning is your job. It’s every single day. If you blow one (and trust me…we have all humiliated ourselves on more than one occasion) there is another opportunity tomorrow. It just wasn’t your day today. Prepare like crazy. Know your material. Show the director who you are and what you have to offer the production. Leave it all in the room and then get on with your LIFE. </p>
<p>@Jeffandann- The good news is, your daughter feels like she nailed her audition. To me, that means there is nothing else that could have been done. For me, it’s far worse to leave the room thinking “I held back. I didn’t go for it. I wish I had done it differently.” </p>
<p>And since we are specifically talking about A Chorus Line, please remind your daughter that amazing dancers HAVE to be cut at the beginning of the musical to make a point about just how tough this business really is.</p>
<p>alwaysamom, you have been here even longer than me! (and yes, glad my D was given a second chance and is back doing what she loves and now for pay and that one of your D’s also was given a second chance in life…lots to be grateful for)</p>
<p>DotheWork, one reason I think it is harder on the parents is because while one’s kids are pretty young, the parent can control most things in their lives. But when their kids become teens, parents can’t control things like getting picked for the team or cast in the play or admitted to college and it is out of the parents’ control and that is hard to get used to. And part of being a parent is hurting for when your kid is disappointed or hurt in some fashion. But truly it is part of growing up and of life in general and rejection is a huge part of performing arts careers. A Chorus Line really is about it all ironically!</p>
<p>My crazy casting story is actually true. To clarify, it doesn’t happen to everyone that is considered for a lead… it happens sometimes to the handful of kids (girls mostly) that if you just went purely on the strength of the audition would be cast every time.</p>
<p>In fact, it happened to my daughter again recently for the last play of her senior year and she was heartbroken. I saw that one coming and I tried to warn her. She had just been the female lead in the musical and the final play is the one play out of 4 that is the “all school play” where kids outside of the drama department can audition. There would be more than the usual number of students wanting to participate than there were roles. I knew that she was extremely vulnerable before auditioning but she was optimistic that since she was the one senior that was going off to study this sort of thing in college (out of all of them), that they would know she needed the work and would use her. But in my head I thought, yes honey but this is also clearly not your last play and for many of these other kids, it is.</p>
<p>As Merlehay suggested, she would have been perfectly happy just to be a tree or similar. It was not about being a lead again. She just wanted to be a part of it. Instead now after school when all of her thespian friends have to stay after for rehearsal, she goes home. It has been tough.</p>
<p>But as strange as it all sounds (and it was sad to not get to do your last high school play), I sort of get where the teacher/director is coming from. Drama at my daughter’s school is a class, not an after school club activity. The teacher has the obligation to grow everyone in the class as a performer, not just the ones that are the most talented. By not casting my daughter, someone else gets an opportunity on stage and meanwhile, he gets to grow my daughter’s ability to handle rejection because she is the one who is going to need that skill most of all.</p>
<p>I don’t think any of us would be in this little corner of CC if we haven’t been there. I personally can not wait until my daughter goes to college so I don’t have to know about every rejection. It is much harder on me than her. DoTheWork has it right: it is much harder not to get THE part you expected in THE annual high school musical with THE director you know and love than it is to not get called after a professional audition when you are auditioning constantly. My daughter, after being the lead in her high school musical both freshman and sophomore year, didn’t get 2 parts she completely and 100% expected to get this year. I saw them both coming, but she completely poo-poo’ed me. The first was at a youth theater (not HS), and the girl who got the lead truly couldn’t sing it , but she was a senior (my daughter is a junior) and her mother volunteers a lot. The director actually told my daughter that she was so much better than the rest of the kids that she would “outshine” the other leads if she had gotten the lead, so she got the part of a supporting character that didn’t interact much with the leads. She consoled herself with “knowing” she would get the lead (a role she REALLY wanted - one of her favorite shows) in her HS musical, but -you guessed it - she was put in the ensemble. Though the leads weren’t as strong singers or dancers as she is, they both looked the parts more, and they needed strong dancers (like my daughter) in the ensemble. She had such a hard time with this, and was embarrassed because prior to auditions the other kids were telling her, “You’ll get whatever part you want” – but, as hard as it was to see her struggle, I know that if she wants to do this for a living, this is reality. Not long after, we went to see an actress friend in a professional musical. We had dinner with her ahead of time and she told us that until a week prior, the title role/male lead was in the ensemble, and one of the VERY minor ensemble characters was the male lead. For some reason the artistic director thought it just wasn’t right, and switched them last minute. Can you imagine being the guy who WAS the lead, who had family coming to the show, etc., etc. and suddenly they have a really small part? According to my friend, both actors were really good, they just were “different” visions of the role, and the first guy, talented as he was, just didn’t match the artistic director’s vision. I turned to my daughter after this story, and said, “Could you handle that?” It was good for her to hear this. It was good for me to hear it. None of us wants to see our child in pain, but we have to get used to it if they try to enter this field.<br>
The only thing I don’t totally agree wit some of you is: depending on the child’s relationship with the director, I don’t think it is always a bad idea to talk to them and get feedback. I mean, these are often their teachers, and these are still children trying to learn. If the director says, “Your dance skills weren’t strong enough” then they know they need to get stronger in that area. If the kid is told, “I needed someone shorter” then at least they won’t beat themselves up wondering what they did wrong. They may not always be told the truth, but during these horrible teen formative years, I think it is helpful for kids to get feedback on things that they are trying to do well, just like they get feedback on essays, homework, etc. I know this is sort of a Pandora’s box, but my daughter spoke to both directors this year and I think doing so really helped her understand the casting process much better, and she will be so much better prepared for the next rejection because of it.</p>
<p>My daughter was told by one of her theatre teachers this year that she didn’t get a lead in the show she was directing because she was too sexy. My daughter is really pretty and because she is a dancer, she can be very sexy- without even trying. Lucky for me, she doesn’t dress or do anything to portray sexy- it’s just innately in her. My daughter said she was very thankful for the feedback and being sexy isn’t a bad thing. That teacher and I roomed together for a conference last month and the teacher brought it up to me. She said she really wanted to cast her. I said but you’re a director and wouldn’t it have been nice for you to direct her to be less sexy? She said she felt she couldn’t have done that in five weeks. I told her my daughter would have been up to the challenge and would have done a great job. The teacher also told me that she saw her in the musical last year where she played a sexy Egyptian princess and she couldn’t get past that to cast her as a school teacher in a Lillian Hellman play. My daughter really wanted to try though. Anyway, that’s why she chose to get a BFA in Acting so she can get cast in plays in college.</p>
<p>So after having started this thread, an update. My daughter has accepted the role she was offered and is ready to nail her ensemble role. So in fact she has handled this better than me, and I have learned much from all of you. I’m sure I’ll be asking questions about school stuff soon!</p>
<p>My daughter is funny. I mean like comedian funny. It’s just her. Many people that she has worked with assure her that her comedic timing is a gift. DD sometimes thinks its a problem though. She can do other things, but I guess comedic is harder to cast? I don’t know. Our last musical was Beauty and the Beast. We knew D had a problem before auditions. We had no idea what to expect. D got Mrs Potts and totally fiipped out. She was so concerned that she wouldn’t be able to sing the music and would make the whole play look bad. She did fine, but the whole play was weirdly cast. We got past it. D is currently rehearsing for Hairspray and is cast as Penny (she is really skinny; no Tracy lol).</p>
<p>We have had loads of disappointments over the years. We try to look at each one as a learning experience. I’m with the OP though, sometimes it’s harder to watch and try and explain away the weird casting.</p>
<p>The other thing about getting feedback is that this is the age when the PARENTS are trying to figure out whether or not their kid, who hopes to be the next Patti LuPone, has any talent. Most of us aren’t theater people ourselves, and it is so hard to be objective about your own kid. Unless like Susan’s daughter your kid has been a finalist for a national tour, etc, it is really hard if you are just a regular middle class family to know if your kid, who has stars in their eyes, really has what it takes to compete in the bigger pond. Investing in camps, lessons, dance classes, coaching, etc can be really expensive as we all know. If our kids “don’t get cast” and it is for a reason that has nothing to do with talent or potential, it is really helpful to know that.</p>
<p>And one more thing, I told my daughter that since she was a lead in her junior year, she probably wouldn’t get the lead in her senior year (my son graduated from the same school and I knew the politics). In fact, when I found out the show, I cast it and explained how I arrived at that. I was pretty much correct and felt like my daughter was very well prepared so she wasn’t disappointed. Told her it looked good that she could be a lead one year and in the ensemble the next. Also, it was nice that she could be in a show, didn’t have to memorize any lines, and she had plenty of time to work on her college auditions. It was a win-win situation!</p>
<p>Calliene, you bring up a good point in post #52 when it comes to applying to BFA in MT programs and how to get a handle on if your kid is truly a competitive candidate (in the ballpark). It is one thing to be the lead in the school musical but quite another to be able to compete for a spot in a BFA program among talented kids from across the country. </p>
<p>We live in a rural area. Being a big fish in a small pond was my D’s experience here. It would not have been enough to go on. It was other benchmarks that gave us some idea. That sort of began at the next highest level when she was cast in a big theater in our state. But still, it is a small state. But then she went away starting at age 9 to a summer theater camp where there were talented kids from all over and we were shocked when she got cast well there and we saw the concentrated level of talent. That clued us in a bit there. She did some auditions in NYC as a kid (not a lot as we live so far away) but yes, doing pretty well in that national tour of Annie process gave a clue and she actually got cast in her first agent submitted audition in NYC when she was almost 11. In high school, there were state and national awards and so by the time she applied and auditioned for BFA programs, we knew it was gonna be really hard to get in but we felt she was a contender at that juncture (though she applied very young, as she was turning 16). Being the lead in our high school shows would not have been nearly enough for us to go by given the size of our school and the rural nature of our area. </p>
<p>If your child has no opportunity to attend a summer program with kids from all over or else to audition for some higher level shows that involve talent from a broad area, then entering things like NFAA Young Arts and/or getting an assessment from a MT coach of vocal coach who is familiar with the level of talent that is admitted to a BFA in MT program, would be very helpful to do. As a parent, it is too hard to know just “how good” your kid is and you can’t base it solely on casting in high school (though it can be a start).</p>
<p>PS, my kid is from a “regular middle class family” by the way and she received need based aid when applying to college.</p>
<p>Don’t know if this is the right thread to post this story, but it does kind of fit with our current discussion.
Last night while my husband and I were at dinner prior to seeing the high school musical, discussing how amazingly talented the female lead is, my husband said something about not being able to wait to see our D as a lead some day.
I told him that I wasn’t sure if we would ever see her in a leading role in high school. Not because she is not talented – and I do believe she is – but because she is not a leading lady type. She possibly could be an ingenue by the time she is 17, but honestly, right now on stage she looks like a child, even among high school kids. The roles she could play perfectly would be more teenager, little sister or someone’s child. In fact, I feel that will be her career niche for a long time – and there are perfectly good roles out there for that type.
However, my husband looked at me in shock. And then said, “Maybe she should be looking at other career options.”
I guess I’ve always just thought of her as someday having a career as a working actor – auditioning and being cast in a variety of supporting roles or ensemble, and hoping for occasional bigger parts. My husband, on the other hand, thought we were just waiting for the seniors to get out of the way and for her to get her BFA and then she would be playing everything from Maria in Sound of Music to Mimi in Rent.
He’s not really a musical theatre fan, only a fan of our D, so I guess I shouldn’t have been too surprised that he really doesn’t get it. Just hoping that he is going to continue to be supportive of her goals, especially as we head towards the college audition process!</p>
<p>Merle, you have hit the nail right on the head! I go through the exact same thoughts your husband goes through, if she dosen’t get a part what does it mean, etc, etc. The post from Ken early in this thread was so helpful, as were others here. I am begining to grasp the extreme subjective nature of this business, and that her talents aren’t reflected in what happens with a single role. She has my unqualifiied support, because I know with her grades, etc she’ll wind up just fine no matter how things shake out the next couple years.</p>
<p>Wanted to also share that her HS just did Les Mis last weekend, and it was phenomenal. My daughter got some solos (was the girl that fights with Fantine in the End of the Day song), and I have now put it on the top of my list of musicals I have ever seen.</p>
<p>I so totally disagree with those that say you to tell if your child is talented based on casting. First, child “talent” and adult “talent” as two very different things - just ask any kid who’s made it in this industry and then can’t seem to move onto adult casting, and not because of people always referring back to their childhood roles. Adult ability is a whole different animal. </p>
<p>You also have the physical differences and, yes, the ingenue vs non-ingenue looks and ability. There’s also the kid who looks older (balding guys for example) who get cast in college because they look older but when they get into the “real world” there are plenty of older actors for those roles and suddenly they’re at a loss. Character actors and comedic actors need growth and development that comes with age and experience so being cast in high school, college, or even right out of college will be more difficult. Then of course is the kid who has already peaked in their talent by their early 20’s and can’t make that transition to mid-30s. </p>
<p>Being cast or not cast, especially before your mid-twenties or even later, is not a good indicator of talent IMHO.</p>
<p>^^^I assume you mean disagreeing with anyone in general that who would say you can tell if your child is talented or not based on casting vs. referring to any of the postings on this thread. As near as I can figure, nobody on the this particular thread has said casting = talent.</p>
<p>@Merlehay. Perhaps you’ll get lucky senior year and your school will put on “Oliver”. Our HS did that one this year and the title role went to a very tiny, lovely and extremely talented girl. =) There are plenty of shows that need leads that look young and for those of us with tall daughers, those doors are shut. I know you get that.</p>
As mentioned, D was injured badly and hospitalized in intensive care and surgery during the rehearsal period and was out of everything. After three weeks in a hospital bed, her very first time allowed out of a bed was opening night of Oklahoma and she went to our HS to watch her best friend who took over as Ado Annie and her boyfriend as Will Parker and everyone else in what was to have been her last hurrah on that stage (having performed in the high school musicals since 7th grade). That was not easy!</p>