Parchment College Ranking 2012 and Cornell...very disappointing

<p>Sorry. Recently found this site but it makes me mad that so many people dis us. Also, I think a lot of people think Stanford is an Ivy and I’ll find that ranking that showed us equal with Yale if I can. Maybe we’re not equal to H, P and S but I think we can compete in a lot of ways with Yale. We don’t have as much money but we’re far better in science and engineering and with the new campus coming we’re going to be even better known.</p>

<p>We’re still not equal overall especially in terms of average student quality (which is pretty much what we get dissed on if ever, and for a good reason especially with how less selective some of our schools are). If you’re talking about Dartmouth, Penn, or such then we have a good case, but not against HYP for their long line history/prestige/wealth (this is for all of you prefrosh with inferiority complexes), though I feel yale is indeed the lesser of the three. Speaking of which, fix your spelling please because it doesn’t take much of an effort to do.</p>

<p>Trust me our school is already well known.</p>

<p>Lollerpants sums it up well:
“I do think that Cornell is on par with many other schools that are higher than it in ranking, and while it is true that it has definite strengths and uniquenesses, the fact is that Cornell for the average student is not the definite best at anything.”</p>

<p>Sorry again. I’m typing too fast. I know that our science and engineering departments are really good and the ranking where we were equal to or ahead of Yale was looking at those. I still think that our new NYC science and technology campus is going to make us much better known and let us compete with HPS.</p>

<p>We don’t know that yet. It’s more than just about being “better known”. The existing network for HYPS is very strong because of their smaller class size and concentration of talent/wealth. Those schools are where they are for other reasons than just educational quality - they have their own connections. If you’ve watched something like Suits you would know what I mean - there are employers out there who only hire from graduates of one school (despite how other schools may be equal/better than it in terms of quality) and the network that a school like Harvard has is VERY strong and restricted. Not that this is the norm, I’m just saying that there are employers out there who do that sort of thing. Our graduates tend to be hired from employers that look for the top talents from top schools in the field instead (like many other top tier non HYP schools), unless you are looking into something like hotel management.</p>

<p>@Lollerpants - I’m also an alumnus but can’t think of anyone on this site that has ever tried to claim Cornell is the equivalent of HYPS. You might be confusing the fact that a lot of ignorant kids on here try to make Cornell seem like a glorified community college, so people who are knowledgeable of the subject spend a lot of time educating them about the truth, but that is a far cry from claiming Cornell’s standing shoulder-to-shoulder with MIT. It’s not.</p>

<p>It will be interesting to see what this NYC tech campus does for the university’s wealth and status once businesses start churning out. I wouldn’t be surprised if Cornell makes a UPenn / Columbia style rise in the next decade or two. While Stanford was on the ground floor for building the infrastructure of the internet, the next generation of web companies is all about applications for various industries, on which NYC is perfectly situated to capitalize.</p>

<p>I think if you were to go to HYP and then Cornell, having known nothing about either in advance, the only real observable difference is in average student quality and depending on major, networking opportunities. And with student quality, keep in mind we’re comparing valedictorians/salutatorians to people who were right behind them. So you’ll find more exceptional students at HYP, but you’ll have your fair share at Cornell and most will be of very high quality.</p>

<p>It doesn’t work like that. We have just as many super brilliant students that they do, but we’re also watered down with more, “academically lesser” students. Trust me I’ve seen more than my fair share of valedictorians here (there’s a LOT of them) to make this comment.</p>

<p>As a side note, it’s highly likely that ANY possibly inflammatory thread a new poster makes has been covered at least 4-5 times historically on this forum in the past 2 years. Please use the search function for your own knowledge but avoid grave digging. Google’s there for a reason.</p>

<p>^
Isn’t the watered down part a good thing for GPA inflation, though?</p>

<p>I know we don’t have a reputation for GPA inflation, but if there are dumb people here, then maybe we have GPA inflation after all, if you get what I mean.</p>

<p>And dang, didn’t know about the super-exclusive networks. What are some of the companies? And aren’t you pre-med, so why would you even care?</p>

<p>" ^
Isn’t the watered down part a good thing for GPA inflation, though?</p>

<p>I know we don’t have a reputation for GPA inflation, but if there are dumb people here, then maybe we have GPA inflation after all, if you get what I mean."</p>

<p>We DO have grade inflation, and a pretty big one at that at higher level classes. Mind that your “dumb people” are not really dumb either. They would be students that would have gotten in to other top schools as well.</p>

<p>"And dang, didn’t know about the super-exclusive networks. What are some of the companies? And aren’t you pre-med, so why would you even care? "</p>

<p>I’m not going to even answer that. Read the last few posts and you’ll see why I responded.</p>

<p>“If you’ve watched something like Suits you would know what I mean - there are employers out there who only hire from graduates of one school (despite how other schools may be equal/better than it in terms of quality) and the network that a school like Harvard has is VERY strong and restricted. Not that this is the norm, I’m just saying that there are employers out there who do that sort of thing. Our graduates tend to be hired from employers that look for the top talents from top schools in the field instead (like many other top tier non HYP schools), unless you are looking into something like hotel management.”</p>

<p>But if that’s not a significant factor, then why did you use it as an example of why they are superior schools? The vast majority of companies don’t do this. I agreed with your funding (endowment) and name recognition parts, though.</p>

<p>By dumb people, I mean people in the top 10% of their high school class with like 2000-2100 SATs. I’m speaking in relative terms. Obviously they’re still smart overall.</p>

<p>And off-topic, but I wouldn’t say Yale is the weakest of the HYP. Each one has its strengths. Name recognition wise, Princeton is by far the least famous of the three, not that it matters.</p>

<p>I think it’s false that Cornell has as many exceptional students as HYP. It’s POSSIBLE that is true in absolute terms, but definitely not as a percentage. If you want to rate students on a scale of 1-100, HYP on average is a 95 and Cornell on average is a 92. HYP definitely attracts more of those who are 99’s (the valedictorians who won some national competition, and did other amazing things, etc.). My point is that these differences are SOO minor. Honestly, compare the people in your high school who went to Harvard to those who went to Cornell. Sure, the person that went to Harvard (likely) had more going for them, but only barely so.</p>

<p>While I know on average, a valedictorian with a 2300 SAT will have a better college career than a top 10% candidate with a 2000 SAT, I think you’ll find HUGE variance, where OFTEN the top 10% student with a 2000 SAT beats their peer from their high school who was #1. College is a huge emotional and academic adjustment compared to high school, where your ability to manage yourself and grow as a person determine your success much more so than your raw talent/abilities. </p>

<p>As for networking opportunities, it really depends. Cornell has more alum than Harvard because it’s bigger. That said, as an older institution with older money, Harvard is clearly connected to more wealth and that’s only superficially represented by its endowment. That endowment is supported by a LOT of wealthy individuals connected to many of the top organizations in the country/world. And where there is more wealth, there will be more opportunities. And a lot of this is derived from Harvard being CLEARLY ahead of Cornell when it comes to its graduate schools. Cornell graduate schools are definitely rapidly on the rise (esp. law, business, and medical), but Harvard’s have been its mainstay for decades. You want to talk about the real differences between a HYP and Cornell, don’t compare their undergraduate schools, compare their graduate programs. Because the reputation of those graduate programs definitely trickle down to undergrad.</p>

<p>Quite honestly, the Cornell tech campus could be a game-changer for Cornell in terms of its endowment thinking very long-term. If Cornell can support its alum to be entrepreneurial to create successful businesses, you’ll have a lot more really wealthy people contributing to Cornell.</p>

<p>PS. That 100 is reserved for that 15 year old who made a major scientific contribution to cancer research.</p>

<p>You do know that any high school student that does claims to do any contribution to cancer research is 99% talk and that it’s just a matter of the hype machine. If you’re talking about the one in the news what not. I think his family had friends at JHU IIRC and basically I’m pretty sure the graduate student/postdoc did all the actual work and he was just there and happened to be lucky enough to do research as a HS student. </p>

<p>Being a graduate student now, it sickens me that this kind of stuff gets on the news just because the kid was in HS and knows how to play the game.</p>

<p>Yes, I was talking about the one in the news. No, I didn’t look all that in-depth into the story.</p>

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<p>What? </p>

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<p>Brilliant in what sense?</p>

<p>“I think it’s false that Cornell has as many exceptional students as HYP. It’s POSSIBLE that is true in absolute terms, but definitely not as a percentage.”</p>

<p>This is what I meant. Why would you ever think that I’d say we have just as many in terms of percentage… As I said, “we’re also watered down with more, “academically lesser” students.” I’ve said before that Cornell does have the weakest overall student pool.</p>

<p>"You do know that any high school student that does claims to do any contribution to cancer research is 99% talk and that it’s just a matter of the hype machine. If you’re talking about the one in the news what not. I think his family had friends at JHU IIRC and basically I’m pretty sure the graduate student/postdoc did all the actual work and he was just there and happened to be lucky enough to do research as a HS student.</p>

<p>Being a graduate student now, it sickens me that this kind of stuff gets on the news just because the kid was in HS and knows how to play the game. "</p>

<p>I agree with this completely</p>

<p>WongTongTong, are you implying Cornell has significantly less brilliant students than Harvard does?</p>

<p>I appreciate my CC peers for clarifying Cornell’s status as second-tier university. But, do people really consider Cornell is on par with UPenn (CAS), Brown, Duke, UChicago, or Johns Hopkins? </p>

<p>Considering most CC users on this thread agree that the difference (I will not reiterate what involves in this ‘difference’) between HYPSM and Cornell is not very significant, I assume Cornell is definitely a peer-institution with the above universities.</p>

<p>But, Why? why do I see a dozen of CC threads claiming “any intellectual students knowing what Ivy-league means will choose Duke over Cornell”? and why do I see a random website demonstrating how UPenn or Brown undergraduates proudly reveal the colleges they attend with the real names of their respective colleges, whereas Cornell undergraduates mostly resorts to ivy-league title?</p>

<p>I’m getting very sick of this pattern manifested over and over again in numerous CC threads and a bunch other community websites. And it seems that people do not even consider Cornell to be placed in the same level as the second-tier universities. I remember a current Cornell student started a thread named “are people out of mind?” reassuring Cornell’s indeed on par with the schools right below HYPSM. This apparently proves my point that many people nowadays consider Cornell to be inferior to the second-tier schools, and I do not quite fully understand.</p>

<p>I find this whole thread to be a bit repetitive. Threads like these have come up many times over the years- I’m not sure why they’re not just closed immediately. Answers to questions people are asking can easily be found via past threads. All these kinds of threads do is cause arguments/unnecessary comments.</p>

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<p>Why does it matter what people consider? It matters what you make of it. End of story.</p>

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<p>Human irrationality cannot be rationally explained, and it seems the notion of inferiority of a certain few colleges has been spread throughout the masses and continues to spread. Either you can attempt to correct this false assumption in thousands of peoples’ minds or, since you know what’s the truth, correct it in your own mind and move forward. The latter is much easier.</p>

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<p>I don’t see where that was said. It seems wongtongtong was asking for clarification on what ‘brilliant students’ constituted.</p>

<p>@Edition103, post #56</p>

<p>You really do not know the meaning of “second tier” with respect to colleges/universities in the United States. You tend to focus on ■■■■■-speak and the negative rather than the rational – the rational being that Cornell is patently a phenomenal and venerable university. My humble suggestion would be to take your misguided insecurities someplace else. The vast majority of educated people are clearly aware of Cornell’s status as a university at the upper level of the top-tier.</p>

<p>But, Why? why do I see a dozen of CC threads claiming “any intellectual students knowing what Ivy-league means will choose Duke over Cornell”? and why do I see a random website demonstrating how UPenn or B —
Duke has risen in rankings in the past 5/10 yrs b/c of a very concentrated and effective publicity campaign. If you look really closely at their numbers - a lot of them are manipulated for the rankings. They also have a very voluble alumni that tout the horn, because they did not go to ivy league and feel the need. Very similarly with WUSTL and Vanderbilt. There’s no center core though. Someone used tennis example - here’s a car one – the colleges that have risen up in rankings recently are like the audi – so-so car but extremely popular due to its massive publicity machine.</p>

<p>First of all, it gets ridiculous the argument comparing HYP and Cornell. Just because Cornell is not as “selective” and does not attract the “elite” student body such as HYP, it is still an “elite” school. Also, people never seem to bring in the fact that of course Cornell is never going to have the “selectivity” stats as HYP since it is such a large school. Harvard has roughly 6,000 undergrads while Cornell has 14,000. So obviously, Cornell is going to have a watered down student body. If Harvard had 14,000 students, their student body would be “watered down” as well. I am sure that Cornell’s engineering student body is as strong if not stronger than Harvard’s, since Cornell is much stronger in engineering than any other Ivy. And just because HYP and MIT, Stanford, etc are more prestigious, SO WHAT!! That does not lessen the prestige as Cornell. Someone has to be at the top, and that does not make the lesser schools “lesser.” And from year to year, when USNWR rankings and other rankings for that matter, when schools drop in ranking, or move up for that matter, do you seriously think the school changed??? It is still the same school and just because someone ranked it higher or lower, it is not as if it is all of a sudden a “better” or “weaker” school. Just my opinion lol.</p>