<p>My daughter has her heart set on attending a top school. She is only a freshman, so we carefully planned her courseload to cater to the main requirements. Over the summer she made me promise to do whatever it took to keep her on track. Here comes the problem....
She is taking an advanced biology class, and is really struggling. My opinion is she has not developed her study skills yet, and is not studying properly. She made a 75 last six weeks, and will probably make between 75-80 this six weeks. She wants to drop down from advanced biology to regular biology, because she thinks she can make A's. The advanced class is weighted 10 points in GPA and class rank.
I do not think she should change classes because her record needs to show the most challenging classes. I also think if she would learn to study, she could make an A. The one test she actually studied for she made an 85.<br>
Is it better to have lower grades in harder classes, or higher grades in easier classes? Any thoughts on what I should do?</p>
<p>The sad, but true answer is that it is best to have As in the most difficult class available...if you are trying for the hardest schools; however, in my opinion, it is about ift....in which class is your D learning? What is her personality like? Does she need to be in that top class to have any motivation, does she need that high level of competition to inspire her OR would she, in the long run, be better off with the self-confidence developed in being in a class one level down, but experiencing much success?</p>
<p>Do not get sucked in to the need to be Ivy or nothing, instead help your daughter find things about her personality and her passions so she can truly find a school which meets her needs and helps her reach her personal potential.</p>
<p>IMO it is much better, much more important for her future, to see that your child is happy and appropriately challenged in school than it is to try to manage grades and course work for colleges.</p>
<p>So, if it were my child, and I have two freshmen myself, I would simply look at what is best for her at this time. I would give no consideration to the alleged implications of this decision for "top colleges".</p>
<p>Nor would I let her switch just because of the expected effect of this decision on her grades. I would try to make an assessment of where she best fits, where she will be both happy and appropriately challenged. If possible, I would talk to her teacher and guidance counselor.</p>
<p>In making this assessment, I would accept her as she is at this time. If she is lacking necessary study skills for the advanced class, then that is one argument for the regular class. Her study skills will come over time. </p>
<p>There are some promises that a parent perhaps shouldn't make and just can't keep. IMO, the promise to "do whatever it took to keep her on track" turns college into your goal, rather than hers. </p>
<p>If you reasonably conclude that she will be happier, and more appropriately challenged, in the regular course, then it would be a mistake, in my opinion, to insist on the advanced course just because of this promise.</p>
<p>Is she learning the material and making C's on the tests? Or is she having trouble learning the material and making C's on the test? If the latter, drop down. If the former, stick with it and learn some test-taking skills. If she drops down now she's out for later Bio advanced courses, right? I'd concentrate on mastery of the material myself. </p>
<p>If she knows the "stuff" there are many tools of test-taking that she can use to improve the grade, including going to the teacher and finding out where the disconnect between content mastery and test taking is coming in.</p>
<p>BTW, what are the the other students in class making? Is she at the top, bottom, or middle?</p>
<p>
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The one test she actually studied for she made an 85.
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</p>
<p>This is the statement that causes me the most concern. What does it mean? Is she lacking in study skills, such as the ability to extract pertinent information from a reading assignmen, make necessary connections between what she already knows and what she is currently studying, tackle problems? If that is the case, some specialized guidance would be called for. After she has gotten it, then will be time to reassess whether she should stay in the advanced class or go down one level. There is no sense staying in a class where one is struggling, but sometimes, a little support may get a student over the hump.</p>
<p>Is she lacking good study habits? Is she uninterested in doing the homework, or is doing a perfuntory, sloppy job? Then going down one level will probably reinforce these bad habits. </p>
<p>I think this is the question to address rather than whether taking an honors class vs. a regular one will look good to colleges.</p>
<p>Cross-posted with marite. What she said, too.;)</p>
<p>She is learning a whole lot and loves the teacher. She has breezed through school up to now, and for the first time she is actually having to work. She does OK on the daily work, but does poorly on quizzes and tests because she doesn't even look over the material hardly. The teacher gives a lot of essay questions, and she does have problems with those because she can't seem to express her knowledge in writing. The main problem is she just doesn't study. If I thought she really couldn't handle it, I would pull her out. I don't like the idea of pulling her out just because she doesn't like to work hard. She needs to learn now that life IS work.</p>
<p>Sounds like we may have more than one thing going on.
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does poorly on quizzes and tests because she doesn't even look over the material hardly.
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The teacher gives a lot of essay questions, and she does have problems with those because she can't seem to express her knowledge in writing.
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Sometimes kids don't try because they think they'll fail and it's much easier on the ego not to (appear to ) try. Don't assume it's just laziness. It may be that the disconnect between knowing the material and expressing that knowledge on tests is symptomatic of a problem. </p>
<p>Or she could just be goofing off. You'll need to do some digging.</p>
<p>Once you know the time and effort is being put in, then you can rule out the laziness aspect. At that point you can start working on the disconnect.</p>
<p>Some really bright students have never had to work for As and when the first time hits, it's a shock and they do lack study skills and even the sense that they need to put in some effort. However, the motivation needs to come from her, imo. If she's asking you for help, I'll bet you could help her find a tutor or someone in the school system who can teach study skills. GC is a good first step.</p>
<p>Is she in a study group? Any chance of a joint hire of a tutor with other kids? Studying adequately takes a mindset....they have to want the goal and they have to believe and understand what effort is required. The study skills themselves can be taught, if the student believes they are needed. </p>
<p>It is a rough time in the parent/child relationship for you to be put in the position of being responsible..."Over the summer she made me promise to do whatever it took to keep her on track." It is all too easy for the issue of importance to be come the grounds for her independence. Perhaps you could negotiate some kind of contract with her to do what it takes to make and achieve her own goals....some kind of special privileges if she shows the maturity and responsibility to meet her academic challenges. The idea is to offer a reward, not to threaten a punishment, and privileges are an evolving issue for a teen. However, I know people who do force the issue of a tutor, the approach being that they must meet with a tutor to make sure they have a grasp of the material, then it must be ongoing if the tutor thinks it would be necessary for the student to master the material based on how student is functioning with the subject. It is hard for teens to perceive the long term consequences of not doing what needs to be done. A primary job for us as parents is to help them keep their options open. </p>
<p>There is no shame in needing a tutor. I know two National Merit Scholars who needed them to handle higher level high school math courses. I know students currently in med school who used them for science courses. Good students do what they have to do to master the materials. </p>
<p>I would recommend that you insist on her having an evaluative session with a tutor, then ongoing tutoring and/or study group for the course. In the sciences, successful students almost always are in study groups. Good luck. Lorelei</p>
<p>Wow.</p>
<p>The college grind starts for freshmen? </p>
<p>I'd be much more concerned about mental health of my D and learning effective study skills than packaging for college apps at this point. </p>
<p>I'd talk to the teacher, privately, one on one. BTW, when dealing with teachers, I found it important to let them know early on that you are not criticizing them for the grade. You want to understand the kid. I'll give you an example. One HS grading period, my D got an unexpectedly low grade in a course. I called the teacher, and after some preliminaries, he opened up and told me that he could have justified a higher grade, but he thought she was coasting and wanted to send her a message. Another time, she bombed her first exam in a class after holiday break. Called teacher who told me many kids bomb that exam, not to worry.</p>
<p>So, rather than ask us, talk to the teacher, but seek the teacher's advice. They are all too used to attacks from parents about bad grades, and may be defensive at first. Instead, ask what you can do to help. You may be be surprised at the answer.</p>
<p>NMD is right. My S got some lower grades because his teacher wanted to teach him a lesson about sloppy lab reports (but she later nominated him for the school prize!).</p>
<p>STM:
It sounds like you have a bright kid who hasn't had to work hard for grades in the past and is experiencing the rude awakening of a really challenging class. I tend to agree with you that she should stay in the advanced course, but "cowboy up" on study techniques, time spent studying, work with a study tutor if necessary to see if that gets her on track and focused on the reality of achieving what she says are her goals regarding college. The issue should be doing her best, not necessarily getting an "A." A "B" in an advanced course as a freshman is not a bad grade and it would be better IMO than an "A" in the less challenging biology course. </p>
<p>I do think that she has to buy into the plan and get herself motivated to do what it takes, as you put it. If she's not willing to change her study habits now, before classes become increasingly difficult in many subjects, she will have to change her goals about college to include choices not limited to "top schools."</p>
<p>I have had so many arguments with my middle child regarding study skills. Biology was one of the hardest courses for him. He would get the study sheet and just sort of look it over and read his notes. I knew it wouldn't work. I let him do it his way. First term a D+. The next term I took over as tutor. Each exam I sat down with his with the study sheet. Flash cards were made over his resistance. Answers were searched out. Questions he couldn't find the answers to where taken to the teacher the next day. The teacher also gave sample essay topics. I tried to get him to write out some practice essays or at least an outline. For the tests that I helped him study he did well. The 2nd term ended with a B+. And the added bonus was my son learned that organized study skills help.</p>
<p>mom60 you definitely understand where I'm coming from. Your son's study habits sound just like my daughter's. I am more than willing to help her, but she says she doesn't want it. I think your method would solve our problem, so I'll try it.</p>
<p>smalltownmom: as others have said before, the crux of the issue is truly, "what is the problem?" One of my Ds switched schools a few times, her first switch was extremely difficult, she had never had to work for grades before in her public middle school, her new private high school had an extremely tough grade process and the grades for the entire school were low compared....a top 5 kid (going to an Ivy type uni) might have a 93%....DD had to learn to work her butt off and it took all of her freshman year. She changed schools again later in HS and found the new school to be a cakewalk, after what she learned at the tough school.</p>
<p>Take heart, your D may simply need to learn study & test taking habits!</p>
<p>The other question is, does your D <em>like</em> biology? Is she better at other sciences, math, or English? Languages? If she would rather put her study energy in other subjects, that's ok, too. On the other hand, if she doesn't put any study energy in anything--that's not good training for the future.</p>
<p>I had a "slacker" too and he turned out all right. He was merely selectively brilliant.</p>
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My daughter has her heart set on attending a top school.
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What does she mean by this? What is the source of this desire? Why does she want it? Even if you can't answer these questions right now, I think it's important to create an atmosphere for her where attending a "top" school is not the criterion by which she judges her own success or happiness. Also that she does not feel she will be disappointing her parents if she fails in this mission.</p>
<p>My own approach to this was never to discourage a vague notion of "aiming for the top." I felt it was a good motivator for my S to always strive to do well in high school. But I felt it equally important to have any discussion of college future contain notions of the breadth and depth of colleges out there, the wonderful world of possibilities, the many places that might be perfect for him.</p>
<p>If she is trying her hardest and still gets that grade maybe you aiming too high, but I could be wrong, maybe the teacher is too hard. </p>
<p>What are the other students' grades.</p>
<p>I think she shouldn't drop it. Tell her to try to pull off a B.</p>
<p>smalltownmom, a word of caution here. While it sounds like it worked for mom60, IMHO I do not think Moms should take over as tutor for kids in high school. If you start that now you will either develop a child who isn't prepared to do it on their own or develop a situation where you spend the next few years being your child's tutor, which may interfere with your ability to just be a parent. Those high school years go by fast, I wouldn't choose to spend them tutoring my own kid.</p>