<p>* It was more like they thought there was “safety in numbers.” In other words, apply to a lot of good schools, you’re bound to get in to one of them. *</p>
<p>I think this is a common mistake. I’ve heard some kids here on CC post that since their reach schools have about an 8% acceptance rate if they apply to 12+ reach schools, they’ll likely be accepted to at least one. :/</p>
<p>Glad to hear that the convo went well. If they take your advice, then great. If they don’t and they have a bad result, at least you’ll feel that you did what you could.</p>
<p>I will have to remember that phrase: thinking “safety” is safety in numbers, and not knowing that isn’t the reality in these times.</p>
<p>this kind of thinking can be really dangerous if the student’s stats are “average” for these top schools. All applicants aren’t equal. Maybe a student with perfect stats, great ECs, and some great hook could risk that thinking, but not the kids who are falling in the middle quartiles. (heck, even having perfect stats isn’t worth that risk)</p>
<p>If you run the numbers, you’ll see that safety in numbers doesn’t really work. If they accept 8%, then they reject 92%. If the process was really about odds, the chance of being accepted somewhere would increase with every application, but with a 92% rejection rate, you would have to apply to 9 just to have a slightly better than 50/50 chance of an acceptance. Even 20 applications would result in about 20% chance of total rejection - not odds I would count on!</p>
<p>Good job, OP! I’m working on getting up the courage for a similar conversation.
A complication here is that her husband and mine are good friends.
I know, you’d think my H might be willing to step up, but mr. non-confrontational says “no way - it’s not our business”.</p>
<p>The funny thing is that a mutual friend’s D was in this same situation two years ago.
She was rejected from her top six schools (two Ivies), and wound up at her seventh choice, paying full fare.
How could could these first parents not see the similarities? We discussed it at the time but I guess now they are sure that their son is SO much more special that the same thing could not happen to him.</p>
<p>I guess I’m going to be the odd person out. </p>
<p>There’s a big drop in selectivity --and other things-between Amherst or UChicago and Butler and Ithaca. I’m not knocking either of the latter. Both are excellent for performing arts. Butler’s good for pharmacy. But I’d probably rank about 200 or so colleges between UChicago and Amherst or any of the other schools on the original list and Ithaca and Butler for liberal arts. </p>
<p>I think it’s a good idea to have some safeties on the list, but now it’s basically reaches and safeties. Moreover, while I agree the original list makes very little sense, I don’t understand why the OP is recommending those particular colleges as safeties. Notre Dame and Butler may be in the same state, but that’s about all they have in common. They are VERY different schools. </p>
<p>Don’t misunderstand. I know the young woman will be in better shape than she would have been without the OP’s intervention. I just think her list still needs some matches…and she needs to articulate what it is she wants in a college.</p>
<p>@jonri- I did offer some matches as well - Villanova, American U, but didn’t want to give a whole laundry list. We talked about her daughter making a list of what was really important to her, both academically and activity-wise. I gave them some ideas for safeties so that they would truly look at a wide range of schools. If they go to some of the websites and do some college searching, I’m sure they’ll come up with a few good matches. The biggest obstacle now is that deadlines are approaching and the high schools around here are closed for another week, so getting test scores & transcripts sent will be difficult.
I admit, it is difficult to come up with ideas for other people’s kids, especially since I don’t know exactly what the girl is looking for in a school (and like a lot of HS seniors, she’s not particularly clear either!) I’m hoping that what they’ll take away from our conversation is that they should think about sending out a few more applications where the daughter has a very good shot at being admitted, possibly with aid, and to a place where she’d be happy to attend.</p>
<p>HSmom2dncrs: Great job! I totally know and understand the nervousness and fear and I’m impressed that you pushed through all of that in order to try to help your friend.</p>
<p>HSmom2dncrs: I am sure it was difficult but you handled it beautifully! I hope your friend takes your advice. </p>
<p>For DS’ school, they put up a webpage where seniors plug in where they applied and which school they will be attending. I noticed one student had applied to nothing but Ivies and UVA. I guess the safety was UVA – I am surprised the GCs didn’t suggest other schools or maybe they did and was ignored. I hope it works out for this student!</p>
<p>Hmmm . . . I hope the girl applies to schools like Michigan, NYU, USC, Boston U, and maybe Mount Holyoke or Reed or something. Those seem like good solid alternatives to her original list and well within her reach. (I’m just thinking abt stats and not finances.)</p>
<p>hsmom, I clicked your reputation scales in honor of your valiant action in a difficult situation. You also deserve clicks because you used your CC savvy to such good effect. I hope others do the same, else what are these little green boxes for?</p>
<p>I get very nervous talking to parents who see their child as the only star in the universe.</p>
<p>They really believe that their child will have a great chance of success in applying to Harvard, and Yale, and MIT–because when they look at the “stats” they see that their child has the numbers! And their high school teachers love them, and will write great LORs. And their child was president of the spanish club, ran track and sings in the chorus–great ECs! Their child is going to have such a hard time choosing among all these enticing choices come next April.</p>
<p>Because they really do have a great child. A child that they are quite rightfully proud of.</p>
<p>It’s just that a lot of times these parents seem to think that their wonderful child is the standout in the pack–that the other 95% of the students applying to these elite schools DON’T have the numbers, the LORs, the activities…and so those are the kids that make up that 95% of the application pool.</p>
<p>Sort of big fish/ small pond syndrome.</p>
<p>They just don’t think about the fact that every high school has its top students who are beloved by their teachers who will write great LORs, and that all of these kids are involved in chorus, and band, and drama, and French club, and basketball…that the pool of applicants to almost any elite college or university is full of students who qualify and deserve to go there, but for the fact that the number of seats available is fewer than the number of students who want to fill them.</p>
<p>hsmom, well done! You are a good friend, and you can also sleep well at night now. Interesting point about the meaning of “safety.” I can see where people might get confused. I’d love to hear an update down the road on this young lady. I really hope they take your advice.</p>
<p>I imagine high school to be like a mountain. The people around you see you at the top of the mountain and imagine that the universities see you as they do, at the top. What is often forgotten is that there are tens of thousands of mountains, some taller, some lower, and each of them have students similar to the one at the top of the mountain in which you reside. The most prestigous universities see not the mountain but the whole mountain range and tops of all the mountains. It is a blessing to have intelligent, inspired children. You want to encourage them and offer them the best you are able, but I believe it is also important for them to see the world as others might see it and to understand that while they are special to you, there are many intelligent and talented young people out there.</p>
<p>Edit: I didn’t read all of the thread until AFTER I posted…glad the OP made the call! :)</p>
<p>I would send the email saying you’ve reflected on the matter and while her D is terrific, etc. and her college list is full of WONDERFUL schools, they are still HIGHLY selective and conventional wisdom says you need a “safety” school…one you are SURE to get into. </p>
<p>The lower math score is a concern but the D may be a brilliant writer and her essays & other parts of the apps may get her in to one or more of the schools on her list. Or they may not. Better to be safe than sorry.</p>
<p>Another update because I heard from the girl’s mom today. She, her husband and daughter got online and on the phone and did some more looking/research in to schools where she might be happy and where she’d almost certainly be accepted. Their D completed 4 more applications this weekend: Ithaca (they had actually stopped for a visit there when they visited Cornell, and the girl had really liked it), Syracuse (the dad’s brother is an alum, and they were able to get some 1st hand info), Pitt (their D liked the location, the programs offered, and knew some others who had visited and liked it) and one other school, which I can’t remember - maybe Villanova?
Sounds like she’s got her bases covered now - and I feel relief for them, and for her. She should definitely have some place to go in the fall.
Happy New Year!</p>