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<p>It makes for a perfectly counter-strawman.</p>
<p>I think when we’re openly using strawmen to avoid having real conversation, that is the time when the debate no longer has any relevance to anything. I mean, really! :(</p>
<p>As a teacher myself, I never interfered with my kid’s grades. They got what they earned. I also don’t recall ever having had a call about one of my own student’s grades in 15 years of teaching.</p>
<p>I did spend a lot of time with S1 on assignments, and in fact, got him through a couple of college courses with passing grades. I never did the work for him, but I sat over him and provided input. He would come up with a draft paper, and I would sit all night with him and make him read it aloud and correct as we went along. It was extremely frustrating because, as I told him, I already done this course myself, I don’t need to learn the material. He has always struggled knowing what he wanted to do. I’m hoping he’s now beginning to figure it out.</p>
<p>S2 was always very self-motivated. After one or two all-night projects (using my same method) and the very first one in college (via text & phone), he would never let me/ask me again. We never had to be involved in S2’s musical preparation. His practice schedule was entirely up to him, and since he was practicing 6-8 hrs. a day, there was no reason to complain. We did get very involved in the college app process, because we knew how important it was to him and his future plans to get into his first choice–which he did. But now he’s there, it’s up to him. I do frequently point out to him that he needs to check the requirements on his own, and he already knows his advisor is not much help. I also pointed out to him that he needs to plan during his jr year where he would like to apply to grad school because deadlines will be early during his sr year. He can’t wait till Sept. of sr yr to start.</p>
<p>We never monitored movies our kids saw. In fact, we often took them to the theater so they could get in to see movies we didn’t care to see ourselves. We talked about them, and neither seems to have suffered any harm from that. We also let them be pretty independent when we could.</p>
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<p>What would you do if one of your kids missed the last month of classes due to a grave
illness where survival and recovery were in question? Would you at least tell the professor why they were missing classes? The professor would probably give the student an incomplete with a certain amount of time to complete the work. What would you do if it were clear that the work couldn’t be completed in the near term?</p>
<p>I know, most of you would just let your kid try to handle it from the ICU.</p>
<p>^I think if it’s something the kid can’t do, the parent should call, in the same way that if they were older and had to let their boss know they couldn’t show up, a friend might do it if the person was physically unable. But if the kid is conscious, and able to use a laptop or phone, they should do it.</p>
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<p>Wasn’t the British Empire supposedly won on the playing fields of schools where most of the boys had been sent by their parents at the age of 7, to be bullied and tortured and otherwise taught to be men? (I recently saw the movie Goodbye Mr. Chips – the kindly old teacher fondly remembering generations of administering canings to his pupils, etc.)</p>
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<p>This kind of attitude is just mean-spirited and vindictive. Don’t you even like your children?</p>
<p>Someone may be a brilliant student and absent minded about day-to-day bureaucracy; so they have ‘no business’ going to college?</p>
<p>A student may indeed check it, but sometimes not notice the mistake.</p>
<p>Colleges employ advisors (who may make mistakes), so they are not assuming the student should should know everything either.</p>
<p>Anyone, friend, fellow student, advisor, parent, or uncle, given the opportunity to spot a administrative mistake, should certainly point it out.</p>
<p>If you can’t find all your own tax deductions, you have no business getting a refund? Only morally weak people get advice from anyone?</p>
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Some kids need to be pushed along more than others. DS is a bright kid but utterly absent minded and unfocused. He has always had a problem with “forgetting” things. Every day, we go over his day, talk about each class, review what homework he has. Then I have to push him to get it done. He still misses things, because I have to rely on his report of what is due. He misses lots of possible points for stupid things like “get your parents to sign the progress report, 5 points”. What does that have to do with knowing the material? </p>
<p>Anyways, without my constant “hovering” he would have a 75 average if that. As it is, he has about 93 for his Junior year, about 91 overall. Not cc-worthy, but at least he has a shot. </p>
<p>I think of it like this: if your child were heading for the edge of a cliff, distractedly talking over his shoulder, would you run towards the scene, yelling and waving your arms, or would you step back and say “well, he’s about to suffer the consequences of being a dunderhead” ?</p>
<p>Yep. This whole conversation just demonstrates why labels can be fun or entertaining, but are largely useless in defining what people are “really” doing.</p>
<p>We have a parent describing doing homework with a college kid over the phone, but they would “never call a teacher for a grade”</p>
<p>We have a scholarship student criticizing a parent for making sure the kid signed up for the right classes.</p>
<p>We have one parent who stayed overnight after moving thier kid in, out of personal convenience and not worry or concern.</p>
<p>We have one person who is defining good parenting as meeting the student’s needs and helicoptering as meeting the parent’s needs…but, what is wrong with a parent meeting thier own needs??? actually.</p>
<p>I am shocked that parents call professors, but then I hear BCEagle’s story, and think…yeah, you’d have to do that, then.</p>
<p>Helicopter parenting is just a derogative term that people apply to parents who are assisting thier kids in learning to be independent. Some kids are more independent from birth, but that doesn’t make the parent any less of a parent, and some kids need some more guidance, but that doesn’t make the parent any less interested in raising independent kids…In the meantime, we write our checks and send our kid off to school, and once you have invested a quarter of a million dollars in an education? I’d say you probably have a right to steer that ship a little bit, if that’s what you want to do. It’s not really my thing, but I do understand why people do it.</p>
<p>Every kid needs guidance on different things. Some things’ll get you labeled helicopter and other’s will get you labeled supportive. </p>
<p>It’s a relatively useless, if entertaining and witty, term, imo.</p>
<p>The first time I heard the term ‘helicopter parent’ it was in an article along with the term ‘free range parent’. Funny how one label stuck and has taken off with such a bad connotation.</p>
<p>If I am going to take my choice between helicopter parenting and free range parenting, I’ll choose to be a 'copter. Keep in mind just like politics and religion anything taken to the extreme is a bad thing!</p>
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<p>Well said, poetgrl.</p>
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<p>rocket6louise is a student.</p>
<p>I haven’t done anything for my son that I haven’t watched executive secretaries doing for their bosses for my whole career. Their job is to make their boss successful, but the boss has to ultimately do the job.</p>
<p>I think most caring, engaged parents don’t stop supporting their kids in college. It’s just a very different level of support. Didn’t select courses or even make suggestions except when my opinion was asked :). Would never have considered monitoring their college performance, except that I am a passive recipient of that because FA is predicated on it.</p>
<p>I never thought that “support” (or interest) is what the term helicoptering referred to. There’s no visual correlation between those two terms. The first time I saw the term in print, I thought it was a college prof or administrator complaining about inappropriate monitoring and intervention, including parent-to-college communication, from the outset. (i.e., no apparent distinction on the parent’s part between K-12 parental responsibility, and that for college).</p>
<p>Why is it called “mentoring” when you do it for other people’s kids and “helicoptoring” when it’s your own? I’m sure some would say I’m a helicopter parent because both my kids and other kids often assign their “research” tasks to me simply because they’re overscheduled with school, studying, work, and EC’s and want to have a little social life, while I get to choose my own schedule, have more time to read, and actually like to do research. Btw, I don’t mean academic research - I’ll sit with them to do database searches if they’re having a problem, but won’t do it for them - but essay editing, college selections, which classes to take (and which profs, if it’s a new school), FA, and even possible career choices have all been things they’ve asked me to gather info on and make recommendations about. I don’t make the final selections but at least they know all their options and can make an informed decision. </p>
<p>I will get directly involved with the school after they’ve tried repeatedly to resolve whatever issue they’re having - more so at the high school level though I have spoken with my D’s academic advisor and the FA office at her college. I find this annoying too and lay the “blame” on the schools for this - why is it a phone call/email from me, a parent, usually gets immediate results when a virtually identical communication from my student gets the brush off/quick answer that’s obviously incorrect? Why don’t high schools have a faculty mentor to help kids who need it with their college planning/research…is this less important/worthy than funding another club advisor/coach? From my experience, five minutes a year with a GC is not going to do much for a kid…even a few parent volunteers would be better than nothing! I think there are lots of kids who “slip through the cracks” because the current system does not allow the time to consider each student’s individual needs/goals/situation.</p>
<p>Rocket, you obviously haven’t experienced the havoc that college advisors, with dozens or perhaps hundreds of students, can unwittingly wreak on academic plans…lucky you! Imo, technology has not necessarily been a good thing for this area as it’s led to a “sink or swim” mentality where the stakes (and costs) are very high. My kids have been advised to take courses which they either already had equivalent credits for or lacked the pre-reqs for and to take other classes on a schedule that would have impaired their ability to be accepted to a major and graduate on time. It seems that most kids have not learned to effectively question authority and will just do whatever their advisor says. My D knows I’ve “got her back” and some of her friends also turn to me, through her, for advice after getting horrible schedules/professors, losing scholarship/grant opportunities, or missing courses that are only offered once a year and are pre-reqs for higher level requirements. Plenty of summer coursework going on in that group…and the “advisors” aren’t the ones paying for it! With a help and support from a concerned parent/mentor, kids learn that it pays to consider options, be persistent in asking questions, and independently test the answers…and this is a very good thing to carry into adulthood!</p>
<p>I don’t know about the whole staying overnight at freshman orientation thing- there is so much more to this then whether the parent is over-involved. With our oldest, we were stationed in Europe and my husband flew back with our son to get him to campus. He stayed a few days, helping him buy things he needed (the store was 5 miles away and my son had no driver’s license or car), and this was all before convocation. After convocation, they had a parent dinner and he left. But the convocation was on day 2 or 3. </p>
<p>I thought the article’s point was simply that parental involvement is class based and that isn’t fair though what to do about it wasn’t stated. Obviously parents who can help their kids are more likely to do so. Yes, we initially helped with editing a few papers. That didn’t last long. With our next, I don’t think we will be helping with that at all. On the other hand, she might be calling and asking for help in some math class. Why not help? I am not taling about doing the work for anyone. I don’t write the papers nor do I do math assignments for others. But explaining how to do a problem or helping proofread a paper is not being a helicopter parent, in my view. </p>
<p>In terms of helping with college selection and advice, I think that is something we are all doing if we are members here and we are parents.</p>
<p>My younger son has severe food allergies, and I had no problem with “helicoptering” all through elementary school when it came to keeping him safe. I think some of teachers found me a bit over the top, but they had probably never seen a kid go into anaphylactic shock. I make no apologies.</p>
<p>I was much less involved (and still am) as far as the academics went – I helped with schoolwork when he needed it and showed up at all the appropriate conferences, concerts, etc. I intervened if there was a problem but only if he made an attempt to straighten it out first. Even got him a tutor now and again. But I wasn’t in constant touch with his teachers and I didn’t check all his homework or reports. Same thing for his brother.</p>
<p>My goal was to make my sons self-sufficient, while at the same time have them know someone was in their corner when they had a real problem or struggle. Would they have had better grades in school if I had been more involved with homework and dealing with teachers? Probably, but grades and college acceptances are important but not overriding of all other goals.</p>
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<p>Had to smile,
too true.</p>
<p>Know a parent who would be classified as a major 'copter–building her own landing pad at the student’s college (incoming frosh) as we speak…
However, the student has had some health and emotional issues - so perhaps those not in the know would be quick to judge the mom without knowing what the family had been through and why the apron strings weren’t completely cut yet…</p>
<p>When I was growing up my parents were strick but had nothing do to with my schooling. I had no clue what the SAT was, how to get into good colleges, what an AP class was etc…I spent 7 years getting my 2 year (AA) degree. I eventually found my way, but it would have been nice if there was more intervention.</p>
<p>There are parents in the parents forum that post near or after the end of the semester on poor results by their kids in college trying to figure out what happened. There are students that post on the college life forum with bad results that do the same thing. Other students and parents then tell them about standard approaches to better performance.</p>
<p>6-year graduation rates at four-year colleges average under 60%. That’s a lot of wasted time and money. There are lots of students out there that could use help. Some of them even know that they could use help. I didn’t have any help or guidance either in the college application process or in college. I could have used a lot more help.</p>