parents and the summer

Parents Forum
1

<p>a few months ago i asked about what you all thought about freshmen staying in their college town for the summer, rather than going home. i go to barnard and i have a pretty cool internship in my field (women's studies/political science) lined up in nyc for this summer, and i'll be staying in the dorms. i've told my parents that i was thinking about staying here, and have informed them of my more concrete plans as they've come up, but my parents are regarding these as, well, just talk... they don't get that i am actually going to stay here. i won a grant that will pay for 3/4 of my expenses, and i am currently looking for a job for nights/weekends to pay the rest. i am extremely independent - in high school i would go days without even seeing my parents, and i haven't asked them for any money whatsoever since before graduation. (although my large loans for barnard are mostly in their names.)</p>

<p>the thing is, whenever i talk about my summer plans, they just ignore it. they keep asking me when i am coming home for the summer, and they tell me that staying in new york isn't an option. my father told me that as a freshman, there isn't anything i could do that would enhance my life or career plans, so there's no reason to spend money staying in ny.<br>
besides the fact that he is a physically abusive alcoholic, many of my friends from school are staying in new york as well, while my 2 closest friends from home are not going to be there. there's no reason for me to go back; new york is my home now. i just committed to a year-long therapy program here (it's free through the columbia medical center), and if i leave for the summer, i lose my spot in the program and will have no therapy come the fall. i haven't told my parents about the fact that i'm in therapy, and i'm afraid that they would view it as a sign that i am not stable enough to stay here on my own. (it's kinda hard to accuse your dad, who most of the time is quite charming, of being abusive... i'm afraid it would lead to more episodes.) the opposition is mostly from my dad (who at 18 was already married with kids).</p>

<p>basically i'm just whining here, but i'd like to know what you parents think. i am 18; my parents can't stop me from staying here, especially since i am paying for it myself. but i was going to ask them for <em>some</em> financial assistance (which i'd pay back at the end of the summer), and regardless, it's incredibly stressful to be in bad terms with your parents, especially since the distance of college was helping me get along with them finally. i miss my mom and my dog, i want to go and visit, but i'm scared that if i go back they'll physically stop me from returning to new york. i'm sick of being manipulated by him and i thought when i got to college it would end.</p>

<p>sorry for the terribly long, whiny entry, i'm just really stressed about this tension. what do you all think?</p>

2

<p>Scarfmadness - first of all, a personal note: I went to college at age 16, and I always stayed in my college town over the summer, never went home, not even when I was 17. It was o.k. with my parents -- they might have wanted something different, but truthfully my prospects for employment were better in my college town, and I pretty much had "settled" there. </p>

<p>As to you: if your father is an abusive alcoholic, then (1) he is never going to be reasonale; (2) he is going to want to try to assert control over you - abuse in a relationship is always ultimately about control; and (3) you should do everything you can to stay away. I think you are probably doing the best thing you can right now: avoiding confrontation by avoiding discussing the matter, but making all arrangements on your own. In the end, what you need to do is simply stand firm, but be prepared for your father to cut off financial support in the summer. Are there other things you can do over the summer to supplement income? I know that Barnard has a babysitting-coop and some other agencies that might provide you with a way to earn extra money during hours outside those required for your internship. I think in the long run the only way to deal with an abusive relationship is to do whatever is necessary to cut off your dependency on the abuser -- that is, as long as you feel you need money from your dad, he will have power over you.</p>

<p>I realize that you still need to have your parents signing for loans - but so far you haven't said that your father has threatened to cut you off in that respect. You don't want to unnecessarily antagonize him -- if there is a way to arrange short visit home at the end of the summer, it might make everyone happier. That will also give you a date to tell him - that is, he asks "When are you coming home?" you say, "At the end of August, after my internship is done." </p>

<p>Don't argue with your dad; just stand firm. If telephone conversations get hairy, screen your calls and use email to communicate. </p>

<p>You might find the information and the books recommended on this web site helpful for learning how to deal with your Dad:
<a href="http://www.verbalabuse.com/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.verbalabuse.com/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>The main thing is you have to avoid getting drawn into arguing with him. You have made up your mind, so you need to stand firm, probably by just polititely repeating things without rationalizing. That is, you don't need to convince your parents of the merits of your internship, you just need to keep saying over & over, "I'm staying in New York" ..."I have taken this internship"</p>

3

<p>scarfmadness, I think you have excellent reasons for staying in New York, and a very good plan, even without the therapy/father issues. Be strong! You re on the path to indepdance, and you will make it.</p>

4

<p>My D is staying in her college town since she lives in an apartment and has to pay the rent whether she is there or not. She will be taking a summer class and hopefully finding a temp job to keep her busy. Besides, there really isn't much here for her now that most of her friends have left town to start their own lives...college or not.</p>

5

<p>scarfmadness
Congratulations, it sounds like you're caring, sensitive and independent. Adulthood came early to you! Try to maintain your intelectual curiousity and willingness to ask for help. Sounds like you have both feet on the ground. If you have any solid connection with your mom, I'd "confront" her with your intentions. Ask for their blessing while informing them of your intentions to stay in NY. Sooner or later you'll need to confront your dad (either directly or through a mediator) so that you can move on with you life. In the mean time, I'd prepare to be financially independent as soon as possible. Sure it's difficult... but you're dealing with more difficult stuff than that already.. YOU CAN DO IT! PMA>>>PMA>>>PMA</p>

6

<p>scarfm,
I agree with the other parents here. Somewhere along on the road to maturity, you will likely have a major disagreement with your parents. If you have rationally considered your position (and you have!) then it is your duty as an adult to stick with your own plan--this implies that 1) you will finance it yourself , if necessary and 2) if there should be negative consequences of your decision, you handle them yourself.</p>

<p>Parents should not be automatically discounted but they can be wrong.</p>

<p>You will have to lead your life in the light of your own wisdom. Sounds to me like you're doing pretty well already. Keep it up!</p>

<p>Pyewacket</p>

7

<p>thanks for all the nice replies, parents. i'm still looking for a job this summer (barnard finals are rather stressful) but i'm going to pay for it myself and hopefully they'll realize it's better to be friends with your self-sufficient daughter who lives a few hours away than to have her under your roof resenting you all the time. thanks again, and i'm hoping things will work out.</p>

8

<p>scarfmadness, the fact that you are among other things attempting in a responsible way to do therapy and to sort out how to set boundaries with an alcoholic parent trumps the entire guilt thing about them wanting you home.<br>
You can't change your dad and alcohol does change him.
Every kid with an alcoholic parent has issues as soon as they get away that need to be addressed. People who are addicts can be very narcissistic, in denial and can "miss" a lot about their own kids. Wonderful that you are looking at this before making any huge decisions in life like marriage, children and even career path. I congratulate you on taking your own life seriously and giving it the best beginning and respect it deserves.<br>
Be a "recruiter". Recruit healthy mentors and peers into your life to see you through.
Be polite and firm, repeat the same message over and over, don't argue. "Yes I will miss you guys but trust me, this is the best thing for me and I am assuming financial responsibility." "Yes, I don't like to go against your wishes, but trust me, this is the best idea for me this summer." If you have not had counseling yet, I would suggest you wait till a little further down the road to give you parents much information on your personal angst or to confront them on how their home is not a very emotionally safe place to live. You will be better equipped to deal with them more honestly after some therapy. Each family is so unique.
Calmom is correct to remind you that an adult with a drinking problem is not rational regardless. So you should just minimize contact and exposure to this lifestyle they have created until you have had time to build up your own life and identity..which is what these years are for!
Sounds like you are enjoying your life in NYC, enjoying your education and making good headway in establishing a great new circle of friends. You sound like a smart and forward thinking person! (so the folks gave you some very good qualities, despite the alcohol issues.)
I have a girlfriend who got into Georgetown back in the day. She was from Chicago. Her parents drinking only got worse after the sibs left for their education. No intervention worked. Visiting became difficult. Finally, all the sibs stayed only in hotels to see the folks. Her folks also suddenly quit paying her share of the expenses for tuition, not really out of spite but out of a neglect.<br>
Her friends at Georgetown had parents who "hired" her in the summers so she did not have to return to Chicago. She managed to finish with her class, but it was hard since so many kids had terrific family support. She is happily married, has great kids and a great career now. Her parents gave her some of her talents but many of the reasons she made it had to do with the friends and mentors she found at Georgetown.<br>
Her parents never ever acknowledged the damage they inflicted on their children, but after they became ill later in life they had to stop drinking. Some healing took place and their children helped them both have better final years. Her parents had love and support from their kids in the end.
So, focus on taking great care of your own life first and foremost. Keep in mind that today's problems may change shape over the years and resolve. You may find a way to spend time with your parents that feels safer down the road. Seek out good people and surround yourself with them..we can learn so much from each other especially at your age.</p>

9

<p>Scarfmadness - I mostly agree with the others, but i have one question. Can you clarify how your normal-school-year expenses are being paid? You mentioned a "grant" that will pay 3/4 of your expenses, and a job for the remainder". Is that 3/4 of expenses for whatever is going on this summer? Or is that for your next year's expenses (Tuition, Room, Board, etc.). </p>

<p>Let me put it another way. If your parents will be paying for next year's expenses (of any amount that you need, and that you will not be able to pay on your own), then you need to be absolutely certain of what you are doing, and you need to be quite clear of the pro's and con's. </p>

<p>The kicker is this: If you have your next year's expenses covered (via Grant, Scholarship, student loans, work, etc.) then you are free to do as you wish.</p>

<p>However, if you need your parent's money for next year, then you are in a totally different situation. If you thumb your nose at them, and completely ignore their wishes, then (as an adult) you may suffer the adult consequences. They may resent your unwillingness to listen, and cut off your college funds. If that happens, and if you don't have the funds to cover (for what they would have paid), then your college days are over - until you come up with the funds.</p>

<p>I am not saying this to imply that i agree with them. If you have an abusive father, then i can understand your need to be away from him. If you are 18 (are older) than you are legally able to be your own person and on your own. However, as adults, your parents will have no legal obligation to pay your college expenses, and any other expenses. </p>

<p>(Let's just say that I know someone who went through a similar situation, and the money went away. Was it fair? Of course not. But life is not always fair. How does that saying go? Don't cut off your nose to spite your face". The person who I am referring to, wishes that he/she had made a different decision.). </p>

<p>If I am correct, and you would lose your college funds, is that really what you want? Would it really be worth it Or, might you somehow be able to endure a few more summers of trials and tribulations, for the sake of the long range goal.</p>

<p>Probably the best solution - is to sit down with them, and discuss it. Find a way to be calm. Find a way to see their reasoning, and their concerns. Find a way to communicate the logic of your plans. And best of all, find a way to open the door for them to be the ones make the decision in your favor. Sometimes, parents just want to hear that you are listening to them. Once that happens, often, the walls break down, and you will get what you want.</p>

<p>You have surely heard the saying: "You'll get more bees with honey than with vinegar".</p>

10

<p>I'm paying for Barnard through a combination of federal grant money, a loan I took out, and a loan my parents took out. The grant I mentioned before is paying for the costs of staying in NYC this summer. My earnings during the school year pay for my books, pocket money, and transportation for visits home, so except for my cell phone and those loans, my parents haven't paid for anything in over a year. My parents are implying they are considering cutting me off financially, in which case I'll take out a bigger loan under my name (I'm a bit confused about cosigning and whatnot, since I'm 18 but I was 17 when I took out my student loan, but I have a meeting with the Barnard finaid office soon where I'll learn more about it). I might end up taking a year "off" in which I work full time, depending on how things work out. I was planning on paying my parents back for their loans anyway - the difference would just be in whose names they were.
Thanks for pointing out that I can't really expect them to pay if I'm not doing what they want; the thing is that they are not considering what I think is healthy for me, and at this point - considering my last encounter with my father consisted of him cursing at me, saying "whatever" to my very real need for therapy, and hanging up on me - I don't think they can any longer determine what's best for me. So, yes, I'm prepared for the financial consequences, I just wasn't quite ready to be so independent yet. Although I guess no one ever really is.
All of you parents gave really good suggestions on how to deal with this - thanks. I don't want to take that step of completely cutting myself off from them (the irony is that that is what happened with my dad's other 2 kids, and he doesn't seem to care that he is repeating his past mistakes), and I am going to try to be rational with them and see if we can have a compromise. For instance, I was planning on ending my internship early and going back for three weeks in August. Hopefully it'll work out; it seems like a lot of you have had tough experiences or know people who've had unusual/difficult family situations and they all ended up more than ok, with elite private school degree in hand.</p>

11

<p>You need to go to an Alanon meeting...its for people dealing with alcoholic family members, spouses, etc</p>

<p>This can be very helpful as it helps you realize your limitations for fixing someone else, having a relationship with someone in denial of their addiction, etc.</p>

<p>I know many people that they have helped, you can talk if you want, share your story, or just listen, the meetings are free and here is a link for NYC</p>

<p><a href="http://www.nycalanon.org/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nycalanon.org/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://www.12stepforums.net/alanon.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.12stepforums.net/alanon.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>While you don't have to cut them out completely, you can learn to understand you need to expect little from them...</p>

<p>There is no shame asking for help, and you should be very proud of yourself for doing so well with your life, seeing all your possibilities and taking care of yourself....</p>

<p>If you were my child, i would be in awe of your capabilites</p>

12

<p>Thanks for the reply. Here is another thought. And, let me say ahead fo time, you have to careful when you play poker. Sometimes, if you bluff, you lose. </p>

<p>I am not saying that you say this, but just read the words, and think about both sides, and the possible outcomes.</p>

<p>"Dad. I really want to stay in NY. It is an unbelievable opportunity. My college advisor told me it will really help my career goals by <fill in="" the="" blanks="">. I will be learning <fill in="" the="" blanks="">. I will be working with <fill in="" the="" blanks="">. It is what i really want to do. However, I love you, and I appreciate all that you and Mom are doing, to help me realize my dreams and my goals. I am willing to abide by your decision. Thanks Dad"</fill></fill></fill></p>

<p>Obviously, I can not gurantee the results will be what you want. But, I think you will see my point. </p>

<p>You stand the best chance of "disarming" him, and his anger, by showing GENUINE appreciation for what he (and your Mom) are doing to help you. They would not be spending the money for your college expenses, if they didn't care for you.</p>

<p>Very few people are so deeply callous that they won't be affected by the application of love and respect. You might be surprised at the outcome. You would have to mean it, and you would have to live with their decision. Otherwise, it would create an even deeper rift, if they found that you were just trying to play an emotional game with them.</p>

<p>It could go either way. Give it some thought.</p>

13

<p>Has your therapist talked with you on how to handle this? Perhaps you could do some role playing conversations with him/her similar to what lovetocamp suggested and play it on out with different responsses depending on how your parents react. You sound incredibly bright and resourceful. I would be impressed by your independence. My daughter is not coming home this summer mainly to live in an area where she thinks she might like to settle after grad., her work there is not career related and I really didn't think it was the best plan financially; but it is what she wanted and as long as she funded it herself how could we say no to her exerting her independence and possibly learning a little about life in the process?</p>