Parents: "Come Clean...Let Others Learn From Your Mistakes

Parents Forum
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<p>No one is denying anything. What some of us are saying is that this may not be the best forum to ask parents, especially those who have been singing the mantra of fit, of having realistic and appropriate safeties, and have seen their own kids have good outcome to their college search to come clean about anything.</p>

<p>Although I try to be as helpful as I can to parents and students, it's not my job, or the job of other parents on CC to educate others about college admissions and applications, especially if no one asks us about it. It's the job of individual parents to educate themselves and of GCs to give them and their students realistic information and timely support.</p>

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<p>I wouldn't assume prep schools provide careful guidance to their students uniformly. Our experience was that only a handful of students are made an effort for. Our d is going to an ivy next year but we as parents educated ourselves about the process. Our d pursued things outside of school for which she got recognition. She believes it had alot to do with her acceptance. If we had not done our research(since the school was not informed about it) her outcome could have been very different.</p>

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<p>My son's prep school paid equal attention to everyone- they made sure the Gettysburg kids were properly positioned, the Rutgers kids got all the ducks in a row, and the Ivy kids knew the odds and gave it the best shot and had good back-ups. The hardest part (the counselor said) was convincing parents of Gettysburg kids that their kid wasn't going to Yale, even though they had spent all that money on prep school.</p>

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<p>Still hearing the same things. Looking for someone who has something to say that may actually affect those parents I'm truly referring to. What you have to say can positively impact those parents just starting the college process.</p>

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<p>obw-
Perhaps rather than trying to get parents to wear their issues on their shirtsleeves, you can post some examples of the "best and the worst" from your yers of experience. To be honest, I think that trying to get parents to take "blame" for significant emotional adjustment issues in their kids may not be too fruitful.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
During my 30 years as a college counselor, I sat with way too many students who had fallen victim to depression, low self-esteem, anxiety attacks, eating disorders, poor family relationships, etc. as a result of how their parents handled the whole college thing.

[/quote]
Sorry. Lost me there. Parents don't have that much power - at least not regular flawed run-of-the-mill parents. (Maybe those emotionally-abusive negligent parents?) I'm not willing to take that much credit or take that much blame! (Research shows peer influences so much stronger than parents....)
Luckily, my kids both did fine.<br>
Mistakes.... We didn't include return postcards to make sure the recs showed up, then had to scramble to get them sent again. Mistake... I got a little wound up in the Val issue - once it looked like my DD might be val I would ask her if she had done her homework. She would look at me and scoff, "Mom, I am handling this just fine." I probably didn't help her stress levels, but she handled it fine. (In my defense, I thought the val might help with finances, and since we had no college saving, finances were/are important.)<br>
Non-mistakes.... I occasionally fretted that my son wasn't involved in EC activities and spent way too much time playing computer games on the couch, but I let him be. I told him I loved him, and that there were many paths to life. He has sauntered his way through high school, taking things at his own leisurely pace, refusing to play any school games or stress over schoolwork. He applied to only instate schools (he likes to stay fairly close to home). Was accepted to all, with merit aid at all except his first choice, a private strong university - which he will probably attend. It's all good.
As for Guidance counselor for DS? I've ever met her, never talked to her, wouldn't know her from Eve. She's new at the job. DS attends large public high school, and college issues are only a small part of her job. It hasn't seemed to matter. I'm assuming she sent in her things, since Ds was accepted to all schools. Again, it's all good. I don't expect her to spend precious hours on my son's college choices, when there are so many other needs. :)</p>

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<p>General background: DD1 received many mailers from schools and went through them (with help) to see where she wanted to visit. Ivys were never in the conversation (not interested). I lobbied for a couple of in-state schools (in the small LAC category that she was most comfortable with). So far she is in at 4 out of 5 and we should hear on the last early next week (the mail!).</p>

<p>Things I wish I had better: Keeping track of deadlines. I know I missed one for FA info. DD1 left all that up to me and I was waiting for her prompts. DD2 (soon to start her search process) will have a more organized agreement on who is responsible for what.</p>

<p>Overall we got through it pretty well - very different from when I went to college in the dark ages.</p>

<p>HS GC was a general help but since I knew my DD's abilities and what she wanted, we were ahead of the game. Fortunately the HS has a very good process on making sure recommendations and records get out.</p>

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<p>Oh, all right, old but wise: Mea culpa!</p>

<p>From the moment D was conceived, hubby and I tenaciously chanted the full list of Ivy League schools to my expanding belly, careful not to neglect MIT. Swaddling her in an attractive red Harvard blanket, we carted D home from the hospital, already planning the fascinating traumatic experiences to which we -- the most dedicated of parents --could subject her to in order to make for truly juicy college essays, and a greatly enhanced chance of her applications making it through the initial screenings. </p>

<p>Oh how time flies! Soon she was walking and although we had already tossed her in an icy lake over and over, having heard that Dartmouth really loves a water polor player with a long term commitment to the sport, we realized that we hadn't yet picked a true passion for her to pursue. Carefully analyzing how we could telescope the various requirements for college admissions, we decided that a passion for curing cancer in her spare time would also go a long way to fulfill that pesky demand that students serve their communities, especially if she cured cancer in poor people! And just in case she needed a back-up passion, we strapped her chubby little feet into tiny toe shoes and decided that she could be captain of a tiny tot ballet team that could also -- big inspiration here -- raise money to cure cancer in poor people! (Of course, not being totally unrealistic, we realized that the tiny tot team would have to achieve international recognition to give her any kind of a meaningful admissions boost.)</p>

<p>Naturally, as soon as she started cutting herself, we had to switch her artistic endevor to ice skating, relying on those nice neck to toe leotards to cover the unsightly scars. But couples skating was just the thing because all that binging and purging made her light as a feather and her partner could lift her over his head so easily. And we heard that Yale really loves ice skaters! </p>

<p>Anyway, all of this extracurricular wonderfulness left D very little time to be a straight-A student in the 23 AP courses we decided she should complete before graduation, taking an IB diploma on the side just to be safe, so we were lucky enough to find nocturnal tutors in every single subject, as well as a helpful sports psychologist who trained her not only to get by but to remain perky on 37 minutes of high quality sleep per night! </p>

<p>And whenever her motivation flagged, we were always quick to provide her with large quantities of inappropriate prescription drugs obtained from her kindly yet unscrupulous pediatrician and daily reassurance that we would never never stop loving her unless, of course, she attended a mediocre college merely in the top 25 and brought shame and disgrace to our family and made it impossible for us to continue to lead fulfilling lives through her vicariously. </p>

<p>We did meet with her hapless GC, who had the audacity to utter words like "fit" and "psychotic" and (shudder) "safety schools," but we ignored the incompetent fool who clearly had far less understanding of the admissions process than we did, and made what could be interpreted as a disparaging remark about the inspirational shrine to US New and World Report we had constructed in our livingroom...and don't get me started on what she had to say about the burnt offerings!</p>

<p>Sadly, D imploded under the weight of all our helpfulness...Do you think it was a mistake not to let her know that we might still love her a little bit if she were an utter failure and ended up at a top 10 LAC?</p>

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<p>OBW--
Perhaps you'll find exactly what you're looking for in the Parents Forum post titled "Please help me with plan B" started on 3/29. It sounds like a very unfortunate situation for both parent and child, but then that sounds right up your alley. But make sure you sure you read the responses as well....</p>

<p>You keep talking about parents pushing for elites and Ivies. Even though this is CC, and you're probably dealing with an unusually involved group of parents, I don't see this to anywhere near the extent you imply. On some forums, the parents seem almost ANTI elite and ivy (i.e. "what makes you think you can't get just as good an education at a flagship state school?"). </p>

<p>Sure there are some problems. I've come across posts here by some asian students, or children of first-generation college attendees, who complain that their parents value only the "top" schools, as in the post noted above. Perhaps they haven't yet become aware of what so many other schools have to offer their kids. If that's what you're really looking for, I'm sure you can find it, but not in most case.</p>

<p>FWIW, I see a lot of posts this week by parents wanting to comfort their children who didn't get into to their (not the parents') 'dream' schools.</p>

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<p>Now you're talking, CCsurfer ;) More, more! The confessional is open!</p>

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<p>LOL CC!
You forgot the part about after receiving her first disappointingly low SAT scores, having her psychiatrist get extra time accomodations for her.</p>

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<p>Loved it, CCsurfer! Esp. the term "extracurricular wonderfulness" :)</p>

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<p>obw: while I can hardly fault you for some of your thinking with respect to the whole college admissions process, I do have problems with your “using” this forum for what I suspect are your own personal motives. In one of your posts earlier this year, a very astute CC’er questioned you on whether you are writing a book. Your line of baiting in the couple dozen threads you’ve started since then all continue to suggest this possibility. Yet, in response to that early post, you responded:</p>

<p>“Also, to write a book one must know something about college admission. My dog probably knows more about admission than I do!”</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?p=3637199#post3637199%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?p=3637199#post3637199&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>And this coming from a retired GC! Just wondering: what college did your dog attend – Ivy or public? Hope he gets some of the royalties when the book comes out…</p>

<p>Just for the record: If anything, my mistake will turn out to be that I didn’t push my freshman S enough - even advised him against applying to the few top tier schools he actually considered (not that my underachieving procrastinating S with Aspergers really knew anything about them other than that other kids were also applying – or even had any clue at that time on how the college admissions “process” works or how different college would be compared to hs). Or perhaps that I didn’t encourage him to take a gap year. Or conversely, that I actually let him go 1500 miles away to college – at a school that I even initially steered him to because it seemed to be the best fit for him and would provide opportunities for him to grow and develop in ways that I thought would benefit him the most and which seemed to be lacking in the local schools, and that would still be challenging but not too challenging for him, academically (and one that we could only afford because he received a merit scholarship that made it comparable to the much large state university he was considering)… time will only tell, I guess. Certainly, there have already been some serious “bumps” and “hurdles” already this year, but S has also amazed me at how well he is overcoming them!</p>

<p>Still, it seems parents are being set up here to take ALL the blame if/when something goes terribly “wrong”, by simply doing either too much or too little, with little consideration for other individual or societal factors that may come into play. At least, in your “book.”</p>

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<p>scans: Regarding your above post..........Got me! My turn to "come clean."</p>

<p>Because of the unconditional love my dog gives me, I have a tendency to overrate his intellectual ability. If he were a person, he would definitely be a HYPer, without any prodding from me.
Now that I think of it, maybe that's why he's so "hyper!" I definitely know more about colleges than he does, but he's probably better in math and science than I am.</p>

<p>CONFESSION...I DO have thirty years of experience in college counseling, AM retired, AM old, AM an expert in the field, and DO a little writing. I AM the biggest student advocate on the planet; HAVE seen way too many students fall victim to emotional and physical problems due to the way their parents handled the college process; HATE the "game" that college admission has become, whereby parents spend thousands on "college strategists" and SAT Prep courses; and am SADDENED by the number of adolescents who seem to miss out on the best aspects of their high school years because everything they do centers around acceptance at an elite college.</p>

<p>Of course, the vast majority of students and parents do very well with the college process. Many of you are right here on CC. My concern, however, is for those for whom it takes its toll.</p>

<p>When I started in this profession many years ago, it was nothing like it is today. I hate to see what it will be like 10 years from now! It's really gotten out of control.</p>

<p>My two biggest areas of interest are (1) Effects of parenting overinvolvement on adolescents going through the college process, and (2) The "frenzy" surrounding an Ivy education.</p>

<p>Mission: To address the adverse effects of parental overinvolvement in the college process, and to find out "what makes parents tick" when it comes to their obsession with the elite colleges. Again, it is the minority of parents who fall into this category.</p>

<p>Despite my irritating posts, I really am a nice guy with a true concern for students and parents. And, for the poster who called me "Old but TROLL," I had it coming!!!</p>

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<p>Old but wise, look it in the mirror, and you may see a close reflection of another retired and grey-haired GC, namely the notorious Lloyd Thacker. If that is good or bad is entirely in the eye of the beholder. </p>

<p>I really think you should contact the new guru and help him with the type of "constructive" ideas on how to solve this "new" crisis you describe. From checking his web site, he surely could use a lot of help, especially from people who have thirty years of experience. </p>

<p>Speaking about experience, could I ask you how many students attending your high school applied and were accepted at an Ivy League school in the past 5 or 10 years? I assume that, based on your stated experience, the district you worked must have been over-populated by the type of parents who exhibited that destructive behavior. Right?</p>

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<p>Collegeboard posted a recent article summarizing a survey they undertook, in response to growing concerns over “helicopter parenting.” One thing they noted: “recent media coverage has been largely based on anecdote rather than solid evidence… without baseline data, we cannot confirm that the phenomenon is actually growing. But it is important to keep in perspective the difference between anecdote and behavior in the fuller context.”</p>

<p>Their findings? That the “helicopter parent” phenomenon is not nearly as prevalent as the media has made it out to be; at the same time, parental involvement is an important factor in a student’s success: </p>

<p>“While 3 out of 5 students are satisfied with the level of parental involvement, the vast majority of the remainder (28 percent of the total) actually want their parents to be more involved. Only 6 percent of the students surveyed who reported some parental involvement in their college search reported that they want their parents less involved.”</p>

<p>“Should we be alarmed or comforted by what we see in parental behavior? Highly regarded scholarship demonstrates conclusively that parental engagement has a positive impact on student success. For example, a study completed by the Harvard Family Research Project provides compelling evidence that parental expectations strongly influence student achievement in grades K-12. For less motivated students, it appears that more parental involvement might actually be welcome, and would likely be helpful.”</p>

<p><a href="http://www.collegeboard.com/about/news_info/report.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.collegeboard.com/about/news_info/report.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>CC Parents: Stay the course.</p>

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<p>scans: I agree with you when you encourage CC parents to "stay the course" when it comes to "healty" assistance in the college process. But when you cite articles that say the evidence of helicopter parenting is "only" anecdotal, remember that anecdotal evidence of the problem doesn't diminish the severity of the issue of adolescents being adversely affected by parents who push way too hard.</p>

<p>Perhaps anectodes should be enough. All you have to do is look at the depressed student, the student with anxiey attacks, the anorexic or bulemic student, the perfectionistic student, or the student who feels that he can no longer communicate with his parents because they push too hard.</p>

<p>Again, it is a small majority of students who affected this way, but even one student is one too many.</p>

<p>Please don't try to diminish the importance of the message I'm trying to get across.</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

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<p>Old but Wise you sound like you are Loren Pope, are you?</p>

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<p>OBW:</p>

<p>Some parents are indeed helicopter parents. But from where I sit, the biggest problem for the kids in high school (not the colleges who would like the parents to just pay up and go away) is the unengaged parents. This is not to blame parents: many work ungodly hours, many are new immigrants with no familiarity with the American educational system and limited English. Nonetheless, the lack of parental support is real. At our school council, teachers discussed going to where families live since many parents did not attend parent-teachers nights, did not come for parents-teachers conferences, etc... Some of parents expect their kids work 20-30 hours a week even when the kids are struggling to achieve academically. My heart went out to a girl who was in a bilingual program. She was bright but her punishing working hours prevented her to put in the effort to get out of the program and into regular classes.</p>

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<p>If you already know the "message you are trying to get across" then you don't need anecdotes from CC parents, do you? Because if they don't adhere to your "message" then I guess they are wrong.</p>

<p>Overall, a message isn't a question. This thread pretended to be a question.</p>