Parents Disagree With My College Choices

Parents Forum
101

If you have family in Minneapolis, and you won’t be driven crazy by living close to them, then UMN would be an excellent option for you. Apply there. Wait to worry about UMN vs. GMU until you have both acceptances and any financial aid packages in your hands. I’d also suggest that you take a quick look at the community colleges that feed into both of those universities as back-up safety options.

Unless you learn something special about job placement for accounting majors from Georgetown, there isn’t any reason to put it on your list. Both UMN and GMU would serve your long-range goal.

102

If you have a shot at Georgetown, I really think you should try. IF you get in (and that’s a big if, since it’s a “reach for everyone” school), you’ll contact the Muslim Student association again, request a single room on a substance-free floor, etc, ie., you’ll cross that bridge when you get to it. You can email Admissions and say your Dad is hesitant, therefore it’d be very useful if they could find a Somali female student who’d be willing to communicate with you so as to iron out any cultural misunderstandings and have answers for any question. (And, who knows, her dad might be willing to speak with your dad?)
UMN: apply to Honors. :slight_smile:

103

@bouders, large Hmong population in the Twin Cities as well. There are areas around there that aren’t diverse, but you can live in a diverse area if you want to.

104

Minnesota is the one of the least diverse states in the U.S and the Twin Cities is the least diverse big city. There may be pockets of refugee populations and other ethnicities, but the Twin Cities and the state is overwhelmingly white. http://www.rightcode.net/development/beyonddiversity/articlefiles/map.pdf The Somali and Hmong populations are not well integrated and the assumption by many “whites” is that anyone African or Asian is a refugee and/or poor.

105

My only question is how accurate that analysis is. Adding St Paul and Minneapolis still doesn’t bring the population up to that of Columbus OH which isn’t shown on that map (or Austin TX which is larger, San Antonio, etc).

106

More importantly, I’ve always found people in the Twin Cities area to be open, tolerant, friendly, and good-humored. I may have been super lucky but to me it’d be a very good environment for an international student. In addition, the Twin Cities themselves are great - lots of things to do and see, from the outdoors to museums and concerts of all kinds.

107

There was something that my parents never told me…until yesterday. My dad never included his savings (to buy a house) in the NPC. Yesterday he told me to add it on to the savings value he previously put into the NPC and guess what the family contribution came out to be for Georgetown? $53K/year (previous contribution was 22K)!!! That is insane and definitely not affordable so it’s not longer an option. And to top it off my dad said he won’t be able to pay the 31K/year tutiion for GMU. So the only option I’ve got now is UMN as my parents won’t budge on their location restriction.

Great… :frowning:

108

@MYOS1634 I agree, from what I’ve researched it seems like a great place to live for college.

109

There is no way you can qualify for instate
tuition in VA. Don’t rely on what your Aunt or whoever told you that, you need to talk to the schools themselves.

110

@GA2012MOM I know I won’t be qualifying for in-state tuition. I’ve let that idea go quite a while ago. Which is the reason why I stated above OOS tuition for GMU.

111

The largest racial/ethnic group in Minneapolis is 60.3% of the population, and the largest racial/ethnic group in St. Paul is 55.9% of the population (non-Hispanic white in both cases).

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/27/2743000.html
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/27/2758000.html

It is not like Oakland (CA), where the largest racial/ethnic group (black in this case) makes up 28.0% of the population or Kauai County (HI), where the largest racial/ethnic group (Asian in this case) makes up 31.3% of the population. But it is not like Portland (ME), where the largest racial/ethnic group (non-Hispanic white in this case) makes up 83.6% of the population.

Washington (DC)'s largest ethnic group (black in this case) makes up 49.5% of the population.

112

Okay, sorry that I missed that.

113

DO make sure you ask to live in the dorms at UMN.
It may be a case of your parents trusting you but not others around you: if the “others” are filtered (by academic seriousness or abstaining behavior) they may be more okay with that.
It’ll make a lot of difference for you, academically and socially.
Agree to Honors Dorm or Quiet Dorm or Substance-Free dorm.
But commuting really isn’t a good idea, especially for a freshman. (Do you need all the points as to why it’s not a good idea? I think the CC adults have already gone over them to help you convince your dad… but we can try again).

114

@MYOS1634 I’ve already tried talking my dad into letting me live in a dorm but to no avail. I’ve mentioned that there are options i.e. single rooms, honors dorms, substance free dorms, you get what I mean. It’s not that he doesn’t trust me it’s just that my dad is against the type environment (drugs, sex, partying etc) that is prevalent in residential halls as it’s all against our religion.

To top it all off, relatives and the likes have been telling my mother a lot of rumors and stories of how X person went away for college and/or dormed and went crazy and did haram things, as in stopped wearing their hijab, partying etc. <- this really put off my parents. I have asked them how on earth they expect someone with my personality (quiet, studious, respectful etc) to get involved in such things. They just keep repeating that it’s the environment and not me and mention what happened to so and so when they went away for college. And besides, that isn’t my idea of fun anyways as I much prefer reading, going to the movies, chilling with friends etc.

When I mention that dorming will make my college experience much better they just make sarcastic remarks. My dad goes into anecdotes about how him and our relatives commuted to college and how it didn’t take away from their college experience blah blah blah. Plus, the relatives I’ll most probably be staying with live very close to campus (5-10 minute drive) so that makes convincing them even harder. And they keep on thinking that whenever I ask about living in dorms and what not that I want to avoid my relatives - they ask my wouldn’t I want to stay with relatives in a safe environment that they approve of rather than an environment that might do psychologically harm to me.

To be frank, I wish my relatives would butt out of this as if they hadn’t been filling my mom’s mind with these crazy stories of relatives (which are honestly not the norm - plus I don’t have the same personality as these people), my parents would have been open to discussing this and perhaps allowing me to live in dorms. I know that irrespective of the environment I’m in I’d never do anything that is completely against my religion and morals. I just wish my parents would understand that.

Any suggestions?

115

Substance-free, by definition, means no party, no alcohol, no drugs. It means any kid engaging in any sort of such behavior are kicked out from the dorm. It’s not like a “regular” dorm where RAs watch for trouble but leave you alone otherwise. In a substance-free dorm, students sign a contract and it’s legally binding. There’ll be a lot of religious kids (all with the same conditions you’d have from their parents.)

Also, your parents have to trust that they raised you right. They have to trust that what they did is enough. You’re soon going to make your own choices, using their upbringing as your guide. If they trust themselves, they have to trust you.

The reason why you don’t want to stay with relatives is that the college student pace isn’t that of working adults. Most study groups run until 10 or 11pm. There’s a reason why the library is open till Midnight; students are expected to be studying till then (and the reason the biomed library is open till 3 am is, guess what, that students in this field have to study harder). It’s just the norm. Then they go to their dorm where everybody’s on the same schedule so coming in at these hours doesn’t wake up anyone.
Of course, there ARE students who don’t study till midnight… but those don’t really make it. (Which is why commuting students have lower grades, on average, too).
Furthermore, it’d be much of an imposition on your relatives if you return between midnight and one every day, and you’ll be forced to choose between honoring their hospitality and good grades, which is a choice you don’t want to make - you’re fine visiting and spending time with them, but you want to focus on your studies.
Because THAT’s the normal life of a studious college student (in fact, some study even later than that) but not the life of working adults with children (or without).
The time you waste in transportation is time wasted for studying - and it’s not middle school, where you can vaguely read your textbook on the bus. The readings aren’t the kind that you can do on public transportation (trust me, I tried, and I have very good concentration).
You need to have a study space, with no interruption for two or three hours - this isn’t possible in a house; you need to be able to access the books you need and when the time for writing papers comes, you’ll need access to a lot of stuff; you need to be able to work with your study group to prepare for a presentation for class, you need to be able to work with your lab team, etc. I can’t emphasize enough how important it is to have a long stretch of uninterrupted time for you to accomplish what the professors want from colleges students (the successful ones) - having a study carrel in the library could be a good idea, for example.

Where did your parents go to college?

116

You make some good points. The relatives I’ll likely be living with have a 5 year old daughter so if that is actually the life of a college student (never knew it was so hectic) then I’ll be inconveniencing my relatives big time. I’ll definitely mention the late study groups - I’m sure they don’t want me travelling on public transport at those hours :wink:

But regarding the living thing, my parents could very well find someone who’s single that I can live with as a lot of my relatives live in the area so that may not work.

My mom went to college in Somali (don’t know what the uni is called), my dad went to GMU for undergrad and GWU for his MBA. Now one thing I should mention is that my dad may not buy into the idea that a college students life is soo hectic that commuting will make my grades slip. Reason is that he fully payed for his college tuition and living arrangements himself (no financial support from parents), worked throughout the night and went to classes in the morning etc and still ended up graduating with good grades. Were things different back then (30 or so years ago) that this was possible??

I’ll show your post to my dad when the time comes. I really hope it does change his mind because if there is a chance that my grades may drop if I commute, I’ll definitely do everything within my power to convince my parents to let me live in a dorm!

117

30 years ago, it was possible for students to scrape together enough jobs to put them through an undergraduate degree at a public U. I knew people who did it. Tuition and fees were a lot cheaper back then (relatively speaking). I know some people who are managing that now at community colleges, but don’t know anyone who has been able to do it in recent years at a 4-year institution without dropping back to less than full-time student status.

If your dad could live on his own, work, and put himself through school, then you need to find out if he wants you to have that same experience or not. Does he prefer that you have it easier than he did? Does he see that you have that same kind of gumption that he had back then, and that you are capable of doing what needs to get done and that you won’t derail just because of the whole XX chromosome thing?

118

@pink997 Although living in a dorm may be more convenient, I see no reason why you can’t have a good college experience as a commuting student. Not all students, even in dorms, study late at night or into the wee hours of the morning. My roommate and I were in bed by 11 every evening (including weekends) and still managed to get good grades, graduate within 4 years (in my case, 3), and enjoy our college years. You will have a different experience, to be sure, than that of students who “study hard, party hard”, but not necessarily a worse one. I can certainly understand your parents concerns. I’m not Muslim, but a rather liberal white Christian, but I am old-fashioned enough to be very worried about the influence peers may have on my sons and daughters while they attend college. I would hope that experimentation with alcohol, drugs, and/or casual sex, or even just living with those who do experiment, doesn’t have to be a part of everyone’s college experience.

119

There are numerous studies that show that living on campus does affect grades. This is one of the most recent ones which distinguished according to gender, ethnic background, and whether the students lived off campus alone or with family:
http://news.rice.edu/2010/07/22/rice-sociologist-finds-campus-life-offers-academic-benefits-to-some-freshmen/
key quotes:

Note that the WORST arrangement is living off campus with family.
Also note that those most likely to benefit from on campus living are Black students and female students.

A couple more articles referring to other studies - from different parts of the country, different environments:
http://housing.unm.edu/prospective-resident/index.html
http://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/education/college/freshmen-living-on-campus-get-better-grades/article_4d3ba54a-c232-5e74-a573-2b99cbcb3d09.html
This is a religious university and the research was conducted with regards to religious students
http://www.georgefox.edu/offices/student-life/residence-life/oncampus.html#_ftn1
Essentially, ALL studies reach the same conclusion: it makes a difference to live on-campus. It affects grades positively, it means you’ll be more involved (and being more involved means leadership positions, knowing professors, getting opportunities), and an overall better experience.

How hectic the life of a college student is depends on the college students. I’ll put it like that: The “good” students I know all lack sleep because they have so much going on. Their days are filled with things to do and

Now, as for your dad:
Things were very different 30 years ago (even 20 years ago). What your dad did would be impossible today. First, because as happymom said, nowadays it wouldn’t be possible financially.
But also, what he did was possible because GMU used to be a commuter university. In other words, most students at his university did what he did. Therefore, things petered out around 6 in the evenings - there was no expectation that students would work on group projects in the evenings or would be in the library till late.
As GMU gained in regional then national status, it started to try and become more residential (because that’s, really, what a “good college” is supposed to be - and if one removes community college students and non-traditional age students from the equation, it still is the norm in the US for 18 to 22 year olds. Not one top 50 university or LAC is “commuter”. There’s a reason.)
And, sure, as kidzncat said, it’s possible not to study late every night. But a certain number of hours in the library is recommended if not required. Can you go to bed at 11pm? Sure… What percentage students actually do that? Very, very few. Some because they study, some because they party. But Kidzncat’s experience is not the norm (just as graduating in 3 years isn’t). And when your group project partners say, Okay, let’s meet every Tuesday 9-11, what do you say? “Do the work without me?”
Also, I understand that your goal ISN’T to party - you’re not going to college for the “work hard, play hard” atmosphere. I hope your parents know you well enough and trust their values and what they’ve taught you enough to know that it’s not the kind of values that just vanish when your kid is away, and that you won’t be getting drunk just because there are some on that campus who choose to do so. Being in a substance-free dorm would actually prevent that - no drinks (even non alcoholic!) in libraries, and no drinks in dorms.
Your father may want you to emulate him… so he has to think whether he prioritizes your reproducing his experience, or your getting good grades, perhaps research experience, and other opportunities that you’ll only get if you’re on campus.
Finally, you can try that for a semester: if there’s a problem, your family’s not going anywhere. You can be yanked out of the dorms and returned to your relatives at the end of the semester or the year if you start spiralling out of control. Based on what you said here, I seriously doubt it’d be the case.

120

@MYOS1634 Thanks so much for all that! Your help is much appreciated

Final update: Okay so I literally just had a meeting with my counselor and had to make a semi-final college list with my parents and talk about the colleges on my list w/the counselor today. So I put down UMD-CP, Northeastern, UMN-TC and GMU on my list - my dad doesn’t really have a problem w/any of these schools except he isn’t too happy about applying to UMD-CP as the surrounding area isn’t safe + he doesn’t like how in the twin cities there is far too many Somalis (it definitely has its negatives - you’d only understand if you were ethnically Somali).

My rant starts here - 1) I pretty much am sure I won’t be allowed to attend Northeastern because I will need to commute from a relatives home and well the only direct relative I’ve got that lives in Boston is my aunt and well simply put her house isn’t the best environment for a college student as there are like 5 other children - studying will be close to impossible (trust me I know what it’s like as I’ve go 3 younger noisy siblings - I literally sleep after school and study during the night when they’re asleep, would definitely prefer to not have to do this for 4 more years). So should I bother even applying?

  1. UMN-TC: *Keep in mind my mom is pretty darn religious and my relatives in MN are VERY religious. I’m pretty religious but no where to the extent my relatives in MN and my mom are. My dad is moderately religious and so is more similar to me than my mom/relatives.

This situation is the worst of them all. My mother was talking to my aunt that lives in Minnesota (not the twin cities) and they were discussing my college plans (why the heck is it everyone’s business? Gosh I mean she’s my mom’s THIRD cousin, I’m telling you everyone in my extended family has asked/knows about my college plans and has something to say :confused: ) So she was like send her over to MN so she can be with her (religious) relatives/they’ll look after her and ensure she doesn’t go astray. She’ll go to classes and come right back home (say WHAT? no extracurriculars/social life. Sounds like prison to me!) (bonus - she’ll go to quran classes during the weekends and to the mosques). And to tip it all of: she doesn’t dare walk outside the house in pants (of any sort) - long dresses/skirts all the time (she then added that my religious uncles will never allow me to go out in pants EVER). This pissed me off so much as I ALWAYS wear pants (never wear long skirts/rarely wear dresses). Honestly this sounds freaking awful. I can’t live in such conditions and actually be happy - depression is very likely (I am not kidding about this, my mother and other relative have it so I am very much susceptible to it). And guess what? My mother was so happy about it all and thinks it’s GREAT :’( Since she’s pretty damn religious, she thinks all the things my aunt mentioned will my religious base stronger, oh please, I’m pretty religious as far as teenagers grow. Forcing it all on me will get me nowhere as I’m very stubborn, up until now my interest in my religion has stemmed within.

So in my eyes, UMN is definitely out of the picture. But there is no way my mom won’t make sure I apply. Fortunately my dad HATES the twin cities and never wanted me to go there from the get go as he thinks the environment is toxic - the one thing we both agree on lol.

  1. UMD-CP: I really like the school and it has a good business school w/great recruiting and it’s pretty close to Northern Virginia - not commuting close, but close enough. This school is highly unlikely though as my mom and dad BOTH don’t like the surrounding area. So should I apply or not?

  2. George Mason: Considering how this entire process has gone, I literally have gone from definitely not wanting to go there to actually wanting to go there especially since being allowed to attend Northeastern and UMD-CP is unlikely (assuming I get in, of course). My dad is very much pro GMU and definitely prefers I go there much more over all the other schools I’m currently considering (good school, very safe area + one of the areas w/ the highest quality of life in the US). But of course the academics aren’t on par with the other schools but I guess the honors college is there. My mom, on the other hand, doesn’t want me to go to Northern Virginia as she thinks my relatives that live there aren’t religious enough so she’s afraid I won’t be as religious as I currently am if I go there.

Things I need to clear up:
*My dad finally now knows EXACTLY how much his employer will pay and so all these schools are affordable. I though I’d clear that up as upthread I mentioned schools private schools + expensive publics wouldn’t be affordable.
*Commuting issue: I’ve failed to talk my parents into letting me live on campus. It definitely is NEVER going to happen. Showed them all the studies MYOS1634 mentioned, got tips from my closest teachers/guidance counselor but to no avail.

So in essence, I’m pretty much given up on this entire college process. My parents won’t budge - first it was my dad but now my mom is seriously making it all the more worse ughh.

Any advice? I’m seriously losing total hope about all this as my only two viable options: GMU and UMN-TC aren’t my top choices. UMN = toxic environment/GMU - not the best academics + little to no chance of being recruited by the top firms. I’ve tried discussing all this w/the counselor but I don’t really like her so…

Thanks so much! I would really appreciate any advice you can give me as I really don’t want to lose hope.

P.S. I literally haven’t checked over what I’v e written so excuse my grammar/spelling and I hope it’s understandable as I was just ranting.