Parents: I seek advice from people who have been there and done that

Parents Forum
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<p>I, too, was looking at the College Board stats for admission and then found them to be very misleading and way overly optomistic. As I discussed in my previous post, I believe they are using old data. The admission requirements have gone way up in recent years.</p>

<p>As “sacchi” has alluded to and I also believe, what you get out of school is directly related to what you put into it. You can go almost anywhere and get a good education if you work at it. The higher end schools definitely have their pluses in many different aspects but not going to one doesn’t mean you’re a failure. You need to get motivated wherever you go.</p>

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<p>You’re looking for a school with both CS and engineering, less than 5,000 undergrad – take a look at Swarthmore. - – you’d get a BS in engineering though, not EE. Swarthmore doesn’t fit in with the other schools on your list but their Adcom will give your application the wholistic review it requires. My son had a GPA below 3.0 (strong upward trends though) and SATs below 2000. He was pleasantly surprised at his admissions to small universities/LACs . What he did have was outside school involvement. Mathmom has given you great ideas for how to demonstrate your commitment in your chosen area – make good use of this summer and best of luck.</p>

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<p>Ok David, so they have about 10k saved up. That is enough to pay about 1/2 of the freshman year, based on your numbers in post 50. Or, we could say 1/8 of a 4 yr education. That leaves 7/8 unfunded.
But that isn’t what I asked. I didn’t ask how much they have saved for your education. You need to think what have YOU done? Have YOU been truly exceptional in some other area? How much have YOU saved? What have YOU earned toward your education? How much can YOU contribute? 2k? 10k? 20k? Zero?</p>

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<p>I can contribute 0. My parents never allowed me to get a part time job because my job was to be a student. Also, I never had any time. During summer, I had football and summer school. During the year, I had football and school. This summer, I do not have football, but I potentially might have summer school at CC and several of my personal project I mentioned before.</p>

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<p>^ Hummm, this isn’t uncommon. The problem is you didn’t live up to your end of the bargin… Forgoing a salary is okay if you are earning grades that are going to earn you merit scholarships or entry to selective schools that meet full demonstrated need.</p>

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<p>^^ Or as I mentioned to David before, if not earning cash, or grades, or musical talent, or sports talent, or something to help oneself earn a scholarship and continue in college. Contributing to one’s own education does not always mean cash.</p>

<p>David is right though, that so far he has contributed zero. My hopes are that he does not expect someone else to make up 100% of the difference. It’s not too late for David, though.</p>

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<p>I see nothing wrong with selecting a couple of reach schools to apply to, but you need to concentrate your efforts on finding match and safety schools. RIT is a good match school, maybe WPI. </p>

<p>I think Missouri UST is ~5000 undergrads, and could be a good safety.</p>

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<p>RIT & WPI both have a GPA 50%tile at 3.7UW. Not even close to a match. Apply by all means, but with a 3.1 they are academic reaches. The OP has got to add match and safety schools, academic and financial. This may be cc with a job. Maybe not if he’s lucky.</p>

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<p>Ok, let’s talk about what we KNOW about david. First, we know that his IQ is at the high end of the ordinary intelligence range, rather than in the truly spectacular range. Based on that alone, we could say that he probably has more than enough intellectual firepower to do almost any standard job (if, that is, he develops a willingness to grind it out).</p>

<p>But he says he wants to be a science professor/researcher. The problem is that that is a REALLY fast track. Unless he is a real grinder (maybe) or is unusually insightful (and we have no evidence of that), the 130 IQ would not predict that he would even be in the appropriate ballpark.</p>

<p>The good news is that he is good at programming–a very nice saleable skill. Might he have the kind of talent that would allow him to become an academic in that field? Possible, don’t have enough info but, once again, many are waiting but few are called.</p>

<p>The point of all this is that david needs to find a technical school that he can get into and afford, do everything he can to try and get better at what he does (including adjusting his attitude), with the understanding that he is probably going to end up doing the 9 to 5 (or 6, or 7). If by doing everything he can to succeed he manages to get into academia, its a bonus.</p>

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<p>Honestly, I do not have much talents. Music: I was fairly good until I stopped playing clarinet before entering middle school; I don’t play anymore. Sports: I am not so good. Honestly though, our school never produces D1 football athletes. Earning cash: I can perhaps get a low level job as a programmer. I have 6 years experience in programming, no professional work, but I learn very quick when it comes to programming. Actually, there are many scholarship opportunities through FIRST, but majority of them are lottery based, not need based.</p>

<p>I added Missouri U of ST to my list, looks promising.</p>

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<p>I would argue those FIRST scholarships are not lottery. Many are merit which include a GPA you don’t have. You can call it what you want but…</p>

<p>Marketing your CS skills is a double bonus IMO. One, you earn money which you need. Even a small wage is worthwhile. Two, you earn experience in the workplace which is invaluable when you go to apply for internships. Internships are key when applying for jobs post-grad or for grad school. Win-win. Oh, third. Working is just good ethics for any young person no matter their financial status. Win-win-win.</p>

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<p>According to a previous post you made, you also have an incident of cheating on your record. So, I would think you are going to have to aim lower than even a match for your GPA.</p>

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<p>Saw that you were using College boards’ outdated data. We had really good results for “chances” with collegedata dot com site. It’s the most accurate imo. Put in all the schools you are considering and you will get a much clearer idea of where to put your energy into applying. Best!</p>

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<p>I have already talked with my counselor. The cheating incident will not be reported since it was my first offense.</p>

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<p>Anyone aware of LeTourneau University? They sent me a brochure and it seems interesting. I checked up the stats and I think I have a fairly decent chance. Perhaps New York Institute of Technology? My list is starting to get bloated with schools, I need to cut some schools out. Perhaps I have to reconsider if the schools on my list are fit for me.</p>

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<p>Do you think you can do the WORK at these programs? Not just in terms of brainpower, but it terms of sitting down and getting it done? If you are not ready, postpone going until you are so you don’t dig yourself a big hole at the college level. Take some time to do other things, and to mature until you are ready to commit to do all of what it takes to get through these programs. Right now it seems that you are always looking for the easy way to obtain the things you desire and always have ready excuses for things you haven’t done/don’t want to do. College is fun, and can be mentally exhilarating…but there is a good amount of drudgery too. Have you matured enough to handle it at this point in your life, or would a gap year doing things to get experience (like maybe doing programming for a nonprofit organization, or helping younger/less advantaged youths learn basic programming, etc., be better for you…it would hone your college resume and give you time to mature so that you don’t defeat yourself again at the college level.</p>

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<p>OP …</p>

<p>Have you looked at UC Santa Barbara, College of Creative Studies? They attract kids who might not have the greatest GPA, but ones that DO have a passion that they can demonstrate.</p>

<p>I note that you say you are in CA, so this should be somewhat affordable.</p>

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<p>David,</p>

<p>I just wanted to weigh in as a student who has just finished his first year in college but similar to you in many respects. Keep reading if you’re interested…</p>

<p>Right. So I graduated with a 2.01 GPA in high school. I learned to program, like you, at about 10, and I guess this sort of shows our ‘thirst for knowledge’ bit. It’s certainly helped distract me from my schoolwork with much more interesting problems, hence the low GPA. It wasn’t till about the summer before my senior year when I thought, “Well damn, how am I going to college?” Mind you (and everyone else), this didn’t cause me to feel obliged to try any harder with grades, though I did take a bunch of AP classes for fun (and did pretty well on some of the exams actually, so it was a plus since I got the credit). I did realize, however, that something had to happen. At that point, though, I wasn’t very well off academically (scored a 32 the only time I took the ACT, I wish I had taken it more as perhaps I could’ve gotten better) and decided to just say f*** it. I’ll talk about where I am now, and why that matters.</p>

<p>So my only option was to apply to the run-of-the-mill state school with big plans to transfer to Georgia Tech (I live in GA obviously), within the structured transfer program and everything. I decided to take summer classes right after graduating at a local CC (something I highly recommend you do, because the fact is that classes are classes and they’re boring and, if you’re anything like me, you’ll get much more out of reading the topics on your own so it’s better to get them out of the way as soon as possible). After completing my first year (with enough credits to be classified as a junior) I decided not to transfer to GT, and I’ll tell you why soon. I have some ‘aspirations’ I guess like you do, somewhat. I’m shooting for a Ph.D in physics or computer science at a top school and, if possible, a faculty position after some postdoc’ing. A couple things have changed my mind about transferring to a better school. First, I now have a 3.7 GPA without much effort, even after taking 20 hour semesters, and that’s fine because I’d rather read and learn on my own than to have someone talk at me for a few hours a week. I feel that you’re the same as I am, so maybe you’ll appreciate this. Second, I’ve been doing research in theoretical astrophysics since September, mostly writing simulational code for galactic dynamics models. I recently won a research grant to continue that work for this year, and we’ll be publishing our results in the Astrophysical Journal, with atleast one other publication lined up after that. This is a fantastic opportunity as only around 1-5% of physics undergraduates are published once. So this is good news, and I probably only ever got this research position because of all the time I spent programming instead of doing homework for school. In a sense, and like someone else was rebuking you for earlier in this thread, I feel proud that I learned how I learned and did what I did, because it’s working out really well for me, and I think I have a good chance to go to a good graduate school.</p>

<p>Now, I just wanted to tell a story about how my life is so far, and you can extrapolate whatever you feel is relevant to you. I’ll add a few comments about it here though, if you’re interested. First, if you don’t get to go to an amazing school, that’s alright. I went to a school where the average high school GPA is about a 3.0 and the average SAT math score is <500. It’s in the middle of nowhere and with a bunch of partiers, but it’s fine for me I think. It’s only four years, and with the money I’m being paid from my research, I can live in the middle of nowhere for dirt cheap. Point is, it’s not the end of the world, and truthfully it isn’t so bad. Second, I really value going to a school with a physics department that doesn’t have a graduate program, because all of my professors know me by now and know that I’m (pardon me while I toot my own horn) a rather exceptional student (or at least, I hope I am, I certainly try hard enough and don’t lack any passion). This is good for a number of things, most importantly letters of recommendation. I can also take any textbook, at any level (undergraduate, graduate, whatever) and do a directed reading with them, and give myself a chance to show them my skills, so to speak. I can also ask to do research with whoever is available, and get extra research experience that way if I ever chose to leave my current field. The most important thing is that I can walk into their offices and talk to them about anything physics, and they’ll help me one-on-one. The relationship with my research adviser is also very similar, and I learn a lot by being around these brilliant men. The fact that I’m their only distraction is fantastic, no grad students or postdocs to cut me out of the equation, and I benefit greatly from it.</p>

<p>I’ve got a few things to say in terms of advice, again if you’re interested. When you’re looking for schools, if you’re looking to go to graduate school, try to email some professors and see if there are people in the department who take on undergraduates for research. The biggest problem with undergrads is that they are all idiots and they know nothing, and they never learn enough to contribute enough. If you get at them early, you can learn all the stuff you need to know on your own, and maybe be able to publish some good work by the end of your undergraduate years. Try to find a department that can help you with research as it’s one of the top priorities for building your graduate school application (which goes hand-in-hand with letters of recommendation). Because of these reasons, I would advise that you stay away from bigger departments, but this is my own personal feeling. A bigger department might present more opportunities, but they may not really be for you. No one knows best, but just try to find out as much information beforehand as you can.</p>

<p>A bit about IQ’s: one of the greatest scientists of our times (and my personal hero =) ), Richard Feynman, scored a 126 on an IQ test at the end of high school. David, if I can just request that you never ever mention your IQ again unless you’re specifically asked, please, if you didn’t get anything from my post please understand this. I know I can’t beat the arrogance out of you, you’ll definitely learn to grow out of it as I did (trust me, once you have a few pretty good ‘accomplishments’, the need for arrogance literally evaporates (unless you’re just inherently a dick)), but you need to try and curb it as much as possible. This is important when you’re interacting in a research setting with professors: don’t be afraid to look stupid, because they already think you’re stupid (you’re an undergrad, don’t expect anything more until you prove yourself). Again with the IQ score: it means nothing, so forget about it. I took an IQ test myself and scored somewhat higher than you did (some idiot earlier described it as the lower end of the gifted spectrum, to that person I say f*** you and excuse my language). I know people with higher IQs that are complete morons (in a sense) and I know people with ‘only above average’ IQs who are amazingly insightful and smart. Forget it, it’s stupid, it’s not proven to show anything substantial and nothing about it is conclusive. Furthermore, the more you work your brain and stimulate, the better it reacts. Brains have high plasticity, so keep working it and sit back once in a while and have a nice long thought about the world and all its weirdness (one of my favorite things to do).</p>

<p>Anyway, I hope my post was helpful to you. I remember feeling the way you did, though I was in a much worse situation academically in high school than you are now. Just know that it isn’t the end of the world, but at some point you just need to get it together. Make sure that once you get into college, you try your hardest to ensure the best opportunities for yourself. Work hard. Good luck.</p>

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<p>Mr. Feynman is just a bad ass. I have been reading through his lectures on physics since earlier this year. Just an amazing man. Anyways, thanks for the advice. Well, I’ll still try to transfer into Caltech no matter where I go. They have undergrad research opportunities at JPL. It is also only 15 minutes away from my house; JPL is only about 5. I mean it has been part of this community that it was where my ambitions were.</p>

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<p>If the 3.1 is unweighted, with a rigorous class schedule, and good SAT scores, I do think RIT is a match. At least it would be according to the Naviance for my D’s HS. Although our HS district seems to have less grade inflation than many. </p>

<p>It is hard to predict outcomes for “splitters”, where the SAT scores are above average, and grades are below average. Which implies applying to a large number of schools, across a wide range of selectivity levels.</p>