Parents of rising seniors: Let the games begin

Parents Forum
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<p>this is round three for us</p>

<p>Screen name: motherof4pearls
Current junior: female
Home state: Tennessee
Preferred locale: Eastern half of the US, parents however have ideas due to logistics of carting three kids off to college with similar start dates!
Specifically seeking: Not picky (yet)
Academic interests: pre-veterinary science, genetics
Schools on list: Auburn, LSU, Texas A&M, Tufts, Duke, U of Richmond, UVA, Cornell, VA Tech, Butler
Schools visited: Too many to list but unfortunately child #3 not present at all visits so will be shoehorning in college visits this summer. She has been to Va Tech, Duke, UVA, Vanderbilt, Cornell, Stanford, USC Berkeley</p>

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<p>Welcome tpo the board, motherof4pearls. My D has some similar but smaller schools. I'll be looking forward to your posts.</p>

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<p>Hi --</p>

<p>This is my first post in this forum; if I mess it up, someone set me straight, okay? :-)</p>

<p>Since you asked...</p>

<p>Screen name: semamom
Student: male
Home state: Massachusetts</p>

<p>Looking for small town, undergraduate population <5000, probably LAC, strong English and history, creative writing options, strong intellectual and cultural environment, reasonable distance from skiing. </p>

<p>S is currently #1 in class, 4.4 unweighted GPA, SAT I (800 v, 800 m, 710 writing), 780 SAT II Bio (taking more SAT II's this weekend). NM commended (and probably semifinalist, based on scores) Good ECs in writing, vocal music and drama. Summer programs in writing and language immersion. (On the other hand, white male, not an athlete, not a legacy [wry grin]).</p>

<p>Have visited Dartmouth (current front-runner), Williams, Amherst. This summer planning to see Bowdoin, Middlebury, Hamilton, Wesleyan. All of these are excellent schools but I'm a Bit Concerned there's not a safety in the bunch -- are there other schools we should be considering, or are we in the ballpark, assuming top SAT II's, recs and essay?</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

<p>(and thanks, too, for a great forum -- very informative)</p>

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<p>Hi Semamom, welcome.Yes, he needs safeties (although he looks like he has a good shot at any on his list, particularly in the ED round). I'm not conversant on NE safeties, but I have 2 suggestions that have strong English and creative writing programs - Sewanee (Univ of the South) and Washington College in Maryland. Washington might have an Early Action Program. Finding a rolling admissions school would be very good for him. If he can find a rolling admit school with programs that appeal to him, then he can apply early, and then relax and concentrate on doing his very best job on the other apps - how about the Univ of Vermont?
No skiing, and way far afield, but doesn't Iowa have some topnotch English programs?</p>

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<p>Cangel, I hestiate to say this but I think that Washington College might be too much of a safety for someone like this. Washington is a nice little college, and does have a good creative writing program, but my strong impression during a visit and talks with admissions and faculty there is that it is not exactly an academic powerhouse. Someone with the types of stats and background that Semamom's son has would probably not, in my opinion, be happy or challenged at Washington. I do like your suggestion of Sewanee, although it has a very different atmosphere than the other schools on his list.</p>

<p>Some other suggestions for good bet schools for Semamom's son: Skidmore, Kenyon, Oberlin, Dickinson, Lafayette, Hobart & William Smith,
Wheaton (Mass). I would hesitate to call most of these schools good bets for most people, but for someone with stats like Semamom's son, they would be.</p>

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<p>You're probably right Carolyn - I was trying to think of somewhere that he could do an EA or rolling admit, and then not have to worry so much about safeties. I agree that Kenyon and Oberlin are good bets, and could probably serve as safeties if due diligence is done, but what about poor Andi's son?</p>

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<p>Carolyn, thanks for your response. In fact, Skidmore is in my son's "maybe" category -- Might be worth combining with our visit to Hamilton.</p>

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<p>Cangel, Hmm. A couple of colleges my S hadn't considered. Location might be the deal-breaker, howeverr; he's a skier, one of those people who actually loves cold winters. But thanks for the input. [g] All ideas appreciated.</p>

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<p>I think Oberlin & Kenyon are moving out of "safety" range for anyone, though well within "match" range for kids with stats like Semamom's son. Part of the problem is that as schools like Oberlin & Kenyon become more popular for use as safeties, they also become more discerning about their applicant pool and more likely to waitlist kids with very strong stats who seem to be using them as safeties --- kind of a catch 22. (Your safety doesn't want to admit people who need safeties - so the highest stat kids get waitlisted, while kids with slightly lower stats but who seem to be better fits get in). But I think that even with very strong stats, to be truly a "safety" you want a college which admits more than half its applicants - I'd say 60% or more. Maybe I'm paranoid, but that's how I look at it. An alternative is to look for a college with nonbinding EA - the college will see use of the EA process as a sign of interest, and an early write welcoming the student will serve the function of being a safety, even if admission was not so assured. And, of course, state universities which are very numbers-driven may be safeties - so simply submitting an app to U.Mass may be all that Semamom's son really needs to do.</p>

<p>However, if Semamom's son does make NM semifinalist, there will be some schools where admission is virtually assured --and they will let the student know by the deluge of mail they send. Basically - if a school likes to publish stats on how many NM scholars they have and guarantees money to all NM scholar -- the label is the hook.</p>

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<p>Screen name:socalmomof2</p>

<p>Is your junior male or female:
I have one of each....(both transfer students</p>

<p>Home state:
California</p>

<p>Preferred geographic location for college:
DS wants to stay in Southern California. DD doesn't care where she goes as long as she gets into a top college.</p>

<p>Any specific things looking for in a college (large, small, urban, etc.):
DD would like to go to a school in a place like Westwood (Where UCLA is.), very pretty, leafy greenery and lots of winding streets for her to explore. DS doesn't care one way or the other.</p>

<p>Child's possible academic interests:
DS is going for the Hard Sciences. DD is stuck on Poli Sci.</p>

<p>Schools currently on child's list of possibilities:
DD is considering UCLA, Scripps, Smith, Mills, ( I suggested it to her after hearing about it on this board. She looked it up and added it to her "possibilities list") and UCR. DD considers UCR her "absolute safety" and will only go there if she can't get into the schools ranked higher on her list. </p>

<p>DS is considering UCSD and nowhere else. He is sure that he will get in.</p>

<p>Schools we've visited (whether or not child is still interested in going there):
I have not personally visited any schools with my kids. I feel that doing so is their responsibility and not mine. DS hasn't visited anywhere yet. DD has visited UCR, UCLA, UCSC, UCSB and Scripps. She is planning to visit Smith and Mills this summer.</p>

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<p>Semamom - how about Trinity (CT) as a match/safety? Colby (not quite as competitive as the rest of the list)?</p>

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<p>jmmom - Colby and Trinity certainly are possibilities. The challenge, I think, is to find safeties that are <em>positive</em> alternatives, as opposed to desperation moves or consolation prizes. In other words, my S needs to look at the list and ask honestly: what if every school but School A (or B, or C) rejected me? Would I feel okay about going to A (or B, or C)? If he answers "no" to any school on the list -- out it goes, safety or no.</p>

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<p>socalmomof2, not exactly two peas in a pod , now are they? LOL. I bet that makes lfe interesting. Please pm me with anything you know about Scripps or better yet, could you post a travel report or something on the Scripps board? I think the school will stay on D's ever morphing list (along with half of semamom's kid's list and Y'vonne's School of Cake Decorating-our financial safety.;))</p>

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<p>Semamom, have you read the book "Colleges that Change Lives?" We read that when my son was looking for colleges - the book was really an eye-opener for him. Most of the colleges in the book were definite safeties for him - colleges he might have considered "beneath" his dignity to apply to -- but after reading such glowing accounts, my son realized that many lower status colleges had plenty to commend them, even though he did feel the book went overboard in its praise. My son did not end up using the book to select a safety -- but I think it gave him some good ideas of the qualities to look for. Plus it made him very aware of some of the qualities that many higher-status colleges were lacking. He did have several safety schools he would have been comfortable attending; by the time he was ready to choose, he had come to understand very clearly that each college had its own set of strengths and weaknesses, and the safeties had some qualities he wanted that did not exist at his top choices. For example, he wanted student bodies that were diverse, and the safeties tended to be far more diverse than the very selective colleges.</p>

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<p>semamom, My son's a junior at at Williams. His "safeties" were Skidmore, Hamilton, and/or Kenyon. Other less selectives that he considered were Conn College and Trinity. Vassar, Bard and Sarah Lawrence are some other options (however, we didn't visit these three).</p>

<p>Even though admissions has become tougher every year I'd still consider these solid safeties for your son. For me, the true safety test is whether the thought of attending the school in question gives the student or his parent a queasy feeling. If yes, then keep looking.</p>

<p>ED provides a big boost for non-athlete, white males at Williams. They are aggressively seeking kids with theater background to support that fabulous new performing arts center. Although Williams isn't particularly known for creative writing they do have some talented and accomplished authors on their faculty. Skiing's good too. ;)</p>

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<p>calmom -- No, we haven't read that book; thanks for the recommendation.</p>

<p>momrath -- Hmm, very interesting take on Williams. We had a so-so campus visit there last summer. Good tour guide, but nothing else really jumped out to say "Yes, this is the place!" In other words, it's not close to my S's first choice at this point, but you make a good case for ED... -- arggh, I hate this process :-)</p>

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<p>Screen name:Paulchem
Is your junior male or female:female
Home state:NY
Preferred geographic location for college:NY, NJ, CT,MD, PA,MA, VA
Any specific things looking for in a college (large, small, urban, etc.):small, urban
Child's possible academic interests: Biology or Chemistry (pre-med), Minor in Film
Schools currently on child's list of possibilities:
SUNY Stonybrook
University of Rochester
NYU
Penn state
Wesleyan--reach
Williams--reach
Cornell</p>

<p>Schools we've visited (whether or not child is still interested in going there):</p>

<p>none yet</p>

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<p>paulchem -- has your D considered Brandeis? Relatively small, suburban but close to Boston, good sciences, plus a film program.</p>

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<p>Semamom, Williams isn't the only school where ED is a big boost. </p>

<p>The trick is to go to the school web site and do a search for "common data set" or "institutional research". Most (but not all) schools have this information posted online. You can get the total number of ED applications and also the total number of ED admits. By comparing that to the total number of applicants, admits, and enrollees you can see what percentage of the class comes from ED admits, and also figure out the ED admission rate, and recalculate the true RD admission rate (the rate you get for RD's excluding EDs). So, for example, Swarthmore is a big ED school - 15% of their enrolled class comes from EDs, and 43% of their ED applicants are accepted, whereas the RD admit rate is only 22%. So you could see at a glance from the data that the applicant will double the chance of admission with an ED app. Swarthmore also very clearly favors males over females in admission - male applicants have a +5% chance of getting in. This is from 2004-2005 entering class data, the most recent that is online- you would want to compare other years to know whether the numbers reflected a consistent trend.</p>

<p>Also, you have to be careful not to read too much into the data. Recruited athletes are often encourage to apply ED, esp. at Division III schools where scholarship money is not awarded -- so those higher admit rates may be skewed.</p>

<p>Personally, I use this data mostly as an indication of which schools to take off the list -- it gives me a more realistic view of the true RD admit rate. Its useful because not all colleges have such a skewed profile - for many, the admit rate for RD is very close to the ED rate. I wouldn't advise using ED in the hopes of an admission boost for a college your kid doesn't absolutely have his heart set on -- I mean,to me it is stupid to apply early in order to increase chances that you may lock your kid into a choice he is not sure of. But its useful to know exactly where you stand.</p>

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<p>Screen name:wishingandhoping
Is your junior male or female:female 3.75/4.8 GPA retaking 1850 SATs
National awards for writing and community service, Editor in Chief Newspaper, Girl Scout Gold Award ...and more
Home state:Georgia
Preferred geographic location for college:Northeast
Any specific things looking for in a college (large, small, urban, etc.):unsure
Child's possible academic interests: Journalism or english
Schools currently on child's list of possibilities:</p>

<p>Ithaca
Syracuse
Bryn Mawr
Muhlenburg
American
GWU
Brandeis
Home State Universities
U Delaware
U Maryland
Bowdoin</p>

<p>Yes, I know. There is absolutely NO common denominator here! We will be visiting all these this summer. I also have a D who will be applying to Law schools this fall. (Pray for me.)</p>