<p>2collegewego I think you are missing something. Dating outside of your religion may not be your choice, while forbidding may work for your dc I would not judge others who don't share your parenting style. your faith if strong is learned from birth and there is something to be said for letting dc find some of their own way, it usually leads you back to where you truly belong.</p>
<p>4Giggles,</p>
<p>I think you misunderstood me. There was no judgement in my post. It's just that dating outside one's religion is incompatible with conservative Christianity-- and the overwhelming # of people who send their kids to Christian camp are conservative Christians. So the whole thing is just odd. My children have been to <em>several</em> Christian camps and we belonged to one of the country's largest Christian churches-- and the decisions made by this parent are unusual. So there <em>is</em> some key information that's missing. I have never seen a camp that billed itself as "Christian camp" that did not espouse this line of thinking. Maybe the parent is using that term ("Christian camp") generously, or the family is not particularly religious-- which begs the question why is the child going there?</p>
<p>I think that trust is great but I still would maintain a significant degree of control over the environment in which a relationship is taking place.</p>
<p>For example, though we trust all of our kids, we do not allow any trips with dates or friends overnight to the beach or to the woods or to hotels, etc., regardless of who else is going, whether or not it is in connection with prom, whether or not the kids involved are "good kids", whether or not people swear that there will be no alcohol, etc. </p>
<p>There is too much at stake to rely solely on trust when dealing with a teenagers. Their judgmental faculties are not yet fully developed and cannot be relied upon, and they are influenced by raging hormones and other perils of adolescence.</p>
<p>I certainly would maintain a tight leash on a freshman.</p>
<p>Thanks everyone for your posts and help.</p>
<p>Needless to say, this morning was painful to see my D was not being her energetic, cheery self. I can't blame her for feeling down about our decision. (Both Husband and I feel horrible.)</p>
<p>To answer some of your questions, we were hesitant to begin with in sending her to a camp program with hundreds of high school teenagers from across the country. However, we felt that spending some time with her girlfriends and meeting new friends would be a great experience...which was her intentions as well. We spoke with other parents who have sent their kids and to the local coordinator and everything sounded like a great program. Yes, in the back of our heads, we were also thinking that it would give her a break from her boyfriend. However, now that the BF is going, we just feel that her reason for going will now be overshadowed by her BF's presence and that she is too young to be on an overnight camping program with her boyfriend. We told her "even if he was the Pope's son" we still would not approve (pretty much for the same reason ADad just posted). The camp program is huge and we don't feel that there would be proper supervision.</p>
<p>As for the Christian camp, as much as we would hope that she would have a great spiritual experience, our decision to send her off to camp was for her to experience a summer camp program. While other of her friends have gone to camps since elementary school, we never felt comfortable with sending her away at such a young age. So this would have been her first and we were excited for her.</p>
<p>I completely understand everyone's concern abou this backlashing at us. My concerns are just that...that she will feel like we don't trust her, we hate her BF, and nothing she does will be good enough. This freshman year has been so difficult for all us. She got horrible grades the first semester and after many restrictions (cell phones, bf, going out) she was able to bring her grades up to all A's and 1 B. So in some ways, she felt that she earned our trust for her to go. Which we agreed to (back then). Since then, we have caught her in 2 lies and told her that until we see she can make wise decisions, our leash will stay pretty short.</p>
<p>Raising teens are just so damn complicated!! She's a great kid, athletic, smart, a musician...she just wants to grow up too fast. Her BF is a junior....very nice, smart and respectful. I just hate the idea that she is getting so serious with him at such a young age. How do you tell a 15 year old teenage girl that there's so much more out there? I know we should just let this relationship take its course and not worry about it too much. But I'm just not ready for a "doctor's visit" or sending her to a week long overnight camp program with her boyfriend!!</p>
<p>Thanks again everyone....it's nice to know we're not alone on this decision and it's also good to hear the "other side of the coin."</p>
<p>Husband and I are thinking of taking her out to her favorite restaurant and having a nice talk with her. I suggested to bring the BF but my H said he doesn't think it's necessary. Any thoughts guys/gals?!!! </p>
<p>Pouring a glass of wine now...... :)</p>
<p>Enjoy the glass of wine:D</p>
<p>I know where you are coming from, I think. You want your daughter to be in a place where she is making decisions that are good for her, not for her and the boyfriend, not to have to be concerned with the needs of the boyfriend for awhile. You want her to experience being on her own (with a group of friends) with no pressure to do anything except to take care of her own needs. I have one kid who seems easily influenced by her friends (not by a boyfriend yet) and even THAT bothers me. I keep telling her to make decisions based on her interests, not based on what her friends are doing.</p>
<p>Anyway, there are all kinds of camp set ups. Some where absolutely there will be no hanky panky (or at least it would be very difficult), and others, doesn't matter if they are run by Christians or not, where there is opportunity to be off away from the group.</p>
<p>And you want her to have balance in her life, to have time away from the BF. Nothing wrong with that. </p>
<p>Is there another camp she can go to that the boyfriend won't be attending? Going to camp is pretty fun, and if she has never been before, I can see why it is very disappointing to not be able to go.</p>
<p>I'm with mstee. Find an all-girls substitute--maybe even an academic camp--or take her to New York or Paris for a long weekend.</p>
<p>4Giggles - the wine was good but not strong enough :)</p>
<p>Mstee - you pretty much summed it all up. Thanks for understanding.</p>
<p>Cheers - ironically, she will be going to Paris with her aunt this summer! But I will check on other camp programs.</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>Ahh the church summer camps! The stories I could tell...heheh. </p>
<p>If this camp is attached to your church, or if it's a program you are already familiar with, or if other friends of hers are going then by all means let her go! The bf is totally irrelevant and may just be going along with the group so he doesn't feel left out. If it's just something the two of them decided to do together, and only choose a "christian" camp to appease you, then keep her home. But I have to say that whatever you decide probably won't change things between the two of them. One week is nothing.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Husband and I are thinking of taking her out to her favorite restaurant and having a nice talk with her. I suggested to bring the BF but my H said he doesn't think it's necessary. Any thoughts guys/gals?!!!
[/quote]
Go out for the day with just your daughter to go shopping for summer clothes, go for a hike somewhere, go minigolfing, whatever. Then go out for dinner with the boyfriend. If you talk through your reasoning with them both and treat them with respect, they should respect your decision. Talk with them and listen instead of making them feel alientated. If they feel respected and trusted, I think they will be less likely to go behind your back. I do think, though, that you should tell your daughter that if she ever wants to see her doctor that the appointment is kept confidential and she won't need to explain to you why she's going. If you want, even tell her that if she ever wants to go she can ask her favorite aunt or a good family friend to take her.</p>
<p>I hesitate to offer any advice/input on your specific decision to not allow your d to attend the camp and, as that decision has already been made any way, it's a moot point.</p>
<p>However, I will echo what many have cautioned in previous posts: be very, very careful in trying to control who your daughter "sees". You of course must assure, to the extent you can, that her priorities are in order (ie schoolwork before dating, etc), but you cannot determine who she will "like".</p>
<p>I know of a wonderful young woman and a young man who were quite infatuated with each other for years. Howver, her parents always made it very apparent that they did not approve of the young man. They were never allowed to "date" and work things out for themselves, so they were reduced to sneaking around and, frankly, the relationship lasted longer than it should have because they really could not see and spend time with each other enough to really know how they would act as a dating "couple". </p>
<p>The daughter now wants to get far away from her parents. It's all pretty sad and very unnecessary: they are both really great kids.</p>
<p>I don't understand the boyfriend ruining her chance to go to camp? He should be the one who decides not to go. If he's much of a boyfriend, he'll bow out and not mess things up for her. I assume the plan was in place for her to go first and then he decided to go? Has he offered not to go?</p>
<p>i'm curious as to your reasoning for prohibiting them going to camp together (sorry if you answered this--i only read the first page of responses!). i have sorta gathered that you wanted her to go away without him for a week over the summer, then he decided he wanted to go too, so you told her she can't go any more. she's upset and you're upset but you're sticking to your guns. hopefully this synopsis is correct!</p>
<p>i had a boyfriend freshman year. and sophomore year. and junior year. and most of senior year. and guess what? same great guy. no longer together but we're still best friends which is awesome. </p>
<p>high school is tough. social situations teenagers are faced with these days are increasingly more difficult to handle. i can confidently say that the reason patrick and i worked out so well is because we were so open to each other and we really grew up together. i don't know where i'd be without him. </p>
<p>our parents supported us 120%. i don't know how i would have survived without their support too. as much as i seriously hate to admit needing them around as much as i do...i need them. your daugther needs you too! </p>
<p>if there's some underlying reason why you and your husband don't want her to be with her boyfriend, you should figure out exactly what that is and then bring it up to her in a nonthreatening way. trust me, she wants your okay and go ahead. she wants you to like her boyfriend. i'm sure she's really proud of him and their relationship thus far.</p>
<p>are you worried that they'll spend too much time together? my parents were. if you see them spending too much time alone, suggest they go out with friends. offer to take them out with you or the rest of your family. maybe i'm crazy but going out with my boyfriend and my parents was actually really fun sometimes! they wouldn't be together after six months if they werent compatible. a stable friend and a reliable confidant (that maybe doesnt share the same clique as your daugther already has) is such a staple for high school. her boyfriend is probably helping her more than you realize!</p>
<p>worried she is or may become sexually active? sticky situation. how do you balance being involved but not overprotective? i think your best bet would be to let her know that you're not stupid, you know it's practically commonplace for teenagers to be having sex, and you want her to lead a healthy life, but that you won't forbid her from being with her boyfriend. if she knows that you're aware but won't forbid her from doing something, she will be way more likely to talk with you about it. parents that are open and reasonable have way more success when it comes to talking about big issues like dating, sex, or alcohol and drugs than parents that are overbearing and too protective. </p>
<p>whatever your reason for all of the sudden preventing her from going to a camp that she was interested in, at least give her the decency of explaining why. she doesn't necessarily deserve an explanation, but it's pretty ballsy of you to expect her to be forthcoming with information to you when you aren't with her. </p>
<p>she wants you on her side.</p>
<p>This is the key, IMO, to the entire situation:
[quote]
Since then, we have caught her in 2 lies and told her that until we see she can make wise decisions, our leash will stay pretty short.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Rather than making this just about the BF, it's also about the lying! It's "We cannot trust you, so putting you in this environment with BF is not one we are willing to allow. We cannot trust that you will obey the rules of the camp together. If you work with us to regain the trust, we'll see about other privileges. Yes, you earned the opportunity to go to this camp by bringing your grades up, but you blew it again by lying."</p>
<p>She may be just as upset, but at least it's not wholly a problem with BF, which may reduce the backlash.</p>
<p>Cartera makes a good point. What do the boyfriend's parents think about his decision to attend this camp (esp. since he's not Christian)? Does he still plan to attend the camp if your daughter does not?</p>
<p>I think it's very hard to have perspective on a serious relationship when you're only 15. That's very young, and as her parents you def. have a right to be concerned.. Hopefully, you and she can come to a decision that you can all be reasonably happy with. Good luck!</p>
<p>Two things I believe to be true about teen "love"..
1. The more parents try to "break up" or "cool off" a relationship, the more it creates the "them vs. us" attitude, and has the opposite effect.
2. If teens REALLY want to have sex, they are going to have sex. That is why it is best to have a good relationship with your kids and have them understand the importance of waiting to have sex, and if they do have sex, the importance of safe sex.</p>
<p>My son (a Christian) and his girlfriend (not) from high school are attending the same college. This was not planned by either of them, as the school is neither student's first choice, and was not even the GF's second choice. But it was the "best" school they both got in. I was not happy with the situation for the usual reasons, among them the obvious "danger" and also because I was afraid S would rely too much on the existing relationship and not work hard to make new friends of both genders. Scarier still, the kids ended up in the same dorm!!! If this had been a summer camp, I probably wouldn't have let him go! But it was college, so really what could we do?</p>
<p>As it turns out, some of what Kristin says above really resonates with the situation. If you trust your daughter's judment at all, please consider that the BF might be a good friend and support for her. In my S's case, the relationship has been quite positive for both of them in college. For one thing, the GF seems to be of a similar mindset and, like S, does not drink. Thus they have been able to keep each other company when their friends were all out getting smashed. I am not happy with the fact that she is not Christian, and S knows it, but I did not forbid the relationship then or now. After seeing how things have played out, I think doing so would have been a huge mistake.</p>
<p>On the Christian (or not) issue, let me offer one of my endless supply of family anecdotes: One of my cousins, raised as a very proud, chauvinistic even, Jew, started dating a woman who was a committed evangelical Christian when they were in college. His parents were very upset by that, and tried for years to break up the couple (including after they were married). The woman's parents (whom I never met -- no big family wedding here) can't have been happy, but were a lot more accepting.</p>
<p>Scroll forward 25 years. The marriage is happy, strong, and prosperous. My cousin has been a great father to two rather sensational daughters; his wife is a wonderful, loving person, who showed superhuman patience and equanimity in the face of her father-in-law's open hostility until the day he died, and who has never failed to treat me (definitely not a Christian) as a loved family member. The children are committed Christians, and a couple of years ago (after his father died) my cousin was baptized and joined his wife and daughters.</p>
<p>These "kids" were 20 when they got involved. They really were kids: my cousin had a wonderful soul, but he was definitely a reclamation project, and his wife was basically a hot blonde cheerleader with a slight case of rebelliousness. His parents did not do themselves any good at all by their hostility, and probably would have lost their son altogether had their despised daughter-in-law been less wonderful a person. Her parents absolutely did the right thing by trusting their child -- she knew what she was doing, even when she didn't.</p>
<p>Way to be an overcontrolling parent. If the boyfriend is not a risk to your daughter's health and well-being, you have no business telling her not to date him.</p>
<p>Edit:</p>
<p>And be aware...next time you will never hear that the BF is going to be involved, and they will sneak off and do more dangerous things. Just talk to her about safe sex and provide advice...attempts to excessively control will NOT end well.</p>
<p>As I mentioned in my posts, it has nothing to do whether BF is a Christian or not. We are not opposed to the relationship and we DO like the BF.</p>
<p>I don't believe this is about overcontrolling my D but more instilling our values and protecting her from making wrong decisions. You may call it as us not trusting her...we see it as a 14 year old girl going to a 7 day camp program with her 17 year old boyfriend. I think there's plenty of time in the future for them to experience these outings when their older and when we've gotten to know the BF more. Right now, I would prefer to take baby steps and let them go out to the movies, hang out at our house or go on family trips.</p>
<p>And as much as I hate thinking about it, I know the doctor's visit will eventually come. I have had many sex talk with my D....but that doesn't mean I'm giving her the green light at 14 years old!!! As a parent, I think it is part of our responsibility to so some "controlling" in our kids life...with love and respect, of course. </p>
<p>So after sitting down with her today, hearing and acknowledging her feelings about this and giving her other options (i.e. spending time with BF and friends during the summer), she was okay with the situation and actually said, "I understand." Funny thing is, she realized the annual carnival would be in town that week and was happy she wouldn't miss it!!!!! Half of her wants to fast forward and be an adult and half of her is still a KID!!! (Just enough to drive a parent crazy!)</p>