<p>let's scratch the Christian part then. So, the question becomes: How would the parents feel about their son going to camp with the gf joining him there?</p>
<p>In defense of camps-</p>
<p>I work at a summer camp, and depending on the camp and situation, can't imagine there being more opportunities for 'things' to happen at camp as opposed to home during unsupervised times. A good camp will keep kids active and engaged in the program for most of their waking hours. Bed checks at night, counselor in the cabin. As much as I think it advisable, my kids don't get that sort of structure or supervision during a week at home in the summer. </p>
<p>But I'd check with the camp director to see how tight the scheduling and supervision at any specific camp. </p>
<p>There can be magic at camp, time of your life highs and a connection with the natural world and other people that is hard to find in any other venue. Some kids love camp, others not. My kids were enthralled when they read a brochure, and begged to go. High priced, but I found a way to work for tuition, so it became a family experience. </p>
<p>OP, it does sound as if you have a good sense of balance, and things worked out well for all.</p>
<p>My D have both gone to camp, both regular camps and the more academic kind, and both have said that people that went with BF/GFs felt a kind of pressure they might not have if they had just gone alone</p>
<p>the OP wants her daughter to have a magical kind of summer camp experience, and didn't want to have the BF included in that experience, i don't blame her....</p>
<p>Put it this way, camp is a time to explore who you are, meet new people, and if this BF suddenly wants to go, what are his motivations...to enjoy a camp experience, or keep tabs on the GF</p>
<p>And if he can't be away from her for a week so she can have a fun summer experience, but wants to tag along, with no previous interest, then I question his reasons for going, what he doesn't have a camp he wants to go to, a rising Sr should be doing more than attending a camp, and often 17 year old are leaders, etc.</p>
<p>I think the word "christian" was brought up about the camp, because that would be a large part of the feel and camp programs, and for a kid who has not professed an interest before, well, that is "interesting"</p>
<p>its like my D suddenly saying she wants to go to computer camp, if she said that, I would know it would be about a boy, not the camp</p>
<p>Let her go. You have three years before she is an adult, less if she turns 18 senior year. The choices at camp are no different than at home or school. If teenagers want to find privacy, they will find it. Therefore there is nothing to lose by letting her go and learn to manage herself in that situation. Preventing her from doing this (and this is not destructive or dangerous behavior) could inspire her to rebel in other ways.</p>
<p>It's obvious reading these posts to see who has kids and who doesn't.</p>
<p>dis-grace, bigp9998 and spideygirl: As much as I want to say "Come back to this post after you have raised your daughter for 14 years and let me know your answer then"..... I am trying to keep an open mind and hear your young point of view which I'm sure somewhat reflects my D's state of mind about this. Believe me when I say that I was saying the same thing you are when I was a teenager and I vowed that I would never be an overprotective, restrictive parent to my kids....And I did many things behind my parents back...And I went crazy in college with the new sense of freedom. The last thing I want to do is to break the strong, trusting relationship I have built with my D in the past 14 years and have her do things behind my back. </p>
<p>I am not naive. I know teens will have sex if they really wanted to... and once she's in college, she will be making those decisions. But while I still have the opportunity to parent her in the next 3 1/2 years, I hope to teach her everything she needs to become an independent, strong, smart and compassionate adult I hope for her to become. </p>
<p>Sex discussion between me and my girls started very early before they started middle school when all the curiosity begins. They were both present at the delivery of their little brother. And when my oldest D approached me at 17 years old and said she thinks she's ready to go on the pill, I brought her to the doctor for a private visit and paid for the prescription. Did I give my older D the tie to hang on her bedroom door while she has sex with her boyfriend....no way!! But he has joined us on many family vacations and we love him just like our son.</p>
<p>As for the son's parents, they understand and respect our concerns and we are both working together to let them spend time together during the summer.</p>
<p>Yes, the 17 year old age of the boy does concern me...not so much about the boys character because he is very involved with many leadership programs and is in the top 10 % of his class....but that my D will get too serious with him and maybe left heart broken when he goes off to college. But I know that's out of my control and let love take it's course....she will experience all the trials and tribulations of love....which is all part of growing up. Any parent can vow that watching your kids go through these trials and tribulations are one of the hardest thing to do.</p>
<p>So believe me when I say, I hear your young point of views and will keep it in mind for the future. But for now, I am not worried about the reprecussions of my decision. I know my D and she knows where I am coming from. My D is back to her happy peppy self and is already looking forward to other summer plans with her BF, girlfriends and family.</p>
<p>Glad to hear that the situation at home is amicable now. Our children do know that most of our decisions stem from our concerns and that we do have their best interests at heart. I hope you and your family have a wonderful summer!!!!!!!!!</p>
<p>
<p>its like my D suddenly saying she wants to go to computer camp, if she said that, I would know it would be about a boy, not the camp.
Spoken like a true Mom! Very good insight, CGM.</p>
<p>
True, but "one of these days" is not yet, not at 14.</p>
<p>Well, the Christian camp was brought up by Ginger in the first instance, as a place where her D could meet new people and take a break from the BF. It's not as if her D came up with the idea. And quite obviously the BF is only going because of the girl. Who's to say whose idea it actually was that the BF goes; the girl could have suggested it just as well as the boy.</p>
<p>Ginger: I don't have kids, and yeah, I'm just seventeen. But I do know a lot of adults with kids who basically do things the way I describe them. Not the majority, surely, but enough to create a study with interesting findings. :p Anyway, I'm glad your daughter is feeling happy and that you and she are getting along. I can't bash anything that works for you!</p>
<p>I guess I also come from a very extreme side of believing in freedom for young people. My mom was controlling to the point of nuttiness in some ways even while being rather abusive and lax in other ways. I feel like any mistakes I've made on my own are pretty much nothing (on the pain scale) compared to the junk she did to me. </p>
<p>Also, I believe that people act like what we treat them like. I imagined you have heard of the Stanford Prison Study, or else you could Google it. Apparently non-prisoners and non-guards act like guilty, rough prisoners and cruel guards when they have to roleplay the parts. In fact, they don't just act like these things. They become them, mentally speaking. Same with the idea of what a teenager is. You treat somebody like a teenager and they'll act like one. </p>
<p>Adolescence is a fairly new concept in the world, a concept which I believe is contrived. I believe it is a creation of a particular way of society rather than a natural state. Whether or not it is "natural" of course has no implication on whether or not it's useful or good. It's obviously much better than many systems throughout history which had girls married off by the time they were thirteen or something. </p>
<p>But I also feel as though it should be recognized that being fourteen does not mean one has an addled brain. Being inexperienced about situations and dangers in life can lead to problems, sure, but it leads to idiocy in twenty-five-year-olds as well as fourteen-year-olds. I'm sure most of you have seen studies claiming that teens' brains don't work right. There was one my mother posted on the bulletin board a few years ago about how teens are not as motivated or understanding of future reward or consequence as adults. It also mentioned that teens are not as emotionally intelligent when it comes to understanding other people, reading faces, etc. I'm sure CC alone disproves the "teens are automatically not motivated or interested in their futures" bit to you all, and the latter part? It was based on the fact that, though teens produced the same answers to questions regarding interactions with others, these answers involved activity in different parts of the brain than their adult counterparts.</p>
<p>At some point in time you have to learn to trust your child and the decisions they make. Perhaps being with her BF and the other kids will give her an opportunity to see BF in another light. As far as "time apart" it sounds like your other summer plans will provide enough separation. Good luck.</p>
<p>Ginger wrote: "It's obvious reading these posts to see who has kids and who doesn't.
dis-grace, bigp9998 and spideygirl: As much as I want to say "Come back to this post after you have raised your daughter for 14 years and let me know your answer then"..... I am trying to keep an open mind and hear your young point of view which I'm sure somewhat reflects my D's state of mind about this"</p>
<p>Actually you guessed that one wrong when it comes to me. I have two teenagers, one younger than yours and another a few years older. I do speak from experience and I think I gave you good advive. It was just my $.02, of course, and I know that parenting is an art. There is no one way to solve a problem, and different solutions work for different families. If you have found what works in yours, and it is different than what I suggested, than God Bless! I still think it is good policy to give teens as much freedom as they can handle, as a natural consequence of them not giving us reason to do otherwise. I believe that kids who are making good decisions should be rewarded with more responsibility to do so, and that this approoach reinforces good choice-making. I am sure that not all young teens will be inspired to rebel if kept on a tighter rope, but for many of them it can happen. I really can empathize, though, with wanting my daughter to get a break from a boy at such a young age, that is for sure.</p>
<p>Thanks everyone for your input!! They are truly very helpful in seeing things in different perspectives....especially when my mind is in the mucky-muck of all these things.</p>
<p>Dis-grace: You certainly are very mature, intelligent and insightful for your age and I appreciate your thoughts on this.</p>
<p>Spideygirl: I apologize for my assumption and your advice has been helpful. With two teenage girls, I'm sure you know how difficult it is.</p>
<p>So I am beyond FURIOUS right now and I, again, need all of your perspective on this.</p>
<p>My 14 year old D has been babysitting for a nice family for about 5 months now. This family had guests with kids and and asked my D to babysit their kids and their guest kids while they went out for a late dinner. My D brought her friend with her to help out.</p>
<p>Here's the kicker: My D's BF decided to stop by to say hi and went into the house. As he was stepping out the door, parents and guest pulled up the driveway catching this boy walking out their front door!!! My D knew he was coming by and made no attempts to say NO!! BAD DECISION!!</p>
<p>After my D came home and told me all this, she was clearly distraught and remorseful....but in my rage, I told her the only reason she is so upset is because she got caught!! She has lost her employers' trust, she has lost my trust and I have lost my trust in her BF....who I really thought was smarter than this. I had to call the family personally and apologize. And I told them that my D and her BF will need to apologize personally as well. They love my D but are concerned about her not capable of making the right decisions which can be a problem caring for their kids. I told them I can't blame them...but that, compared to other "bad decisions" my D has made, this one by far has been the worse and that she truly feels horrible for it.</p>
<p>In her mind, she thought the whole episode was innocent...that the kids were all asleep and she and her GF was bored. I asked her what her gut felt when they were planning this and she admitted that she knew it was probably wrong. </p>
<p>So CC friends - how do I learn to trust her when she keeps doing this "one-step forward, two step back" dance with me?!!!!!</p>
<p>Hmm... </p>
<p>I'd personally say she shouldn't be allowed to babysit for a while. Whatever "a while" is would be your decision, but I don't think this is even about trust so much as keeping your daughter and yourself out of trouble. She's proven she doesn't know what's appropriate for caring for children, and that, unlike most things, is not an area where you can just go ahead and trust she's learned her lesson. If she didn't care properly for somebody else's children, you could also be in trouble. You know? The trust doesn't have to be curtailed in other areas so much because the consequence of no more babysitting is not only necessary but its own punishment.</p>
<p>I think this calls into question her ability to make good judgements when she is not being closely supervised. I can see now why you were so uncomfortable with camp.</p>
<p>What I can't tell is whether she has had opportunities to learn how to behave responsibly when she is not directly accountable to a parent or whether she's just not had enough experience and doesn't "know any better."</p>
<p>For the babysitting thing, I'd find a babysitting course (Red Cross and if you have one a Children's hospital often offer them) and make sure she completes it successfully before she is allowed to sit again. And there should be an iron-clad rule: no friends. </p>
<p>Is there an area of her life where she is exercising good judgement when independent? Maybe the issue is that she's just too young to have a boyfriend. If you think the irresponsible behavior is a function of having a BF, I think the way to go is to sit both of them down and make it clear that you see now she's not mature enough to be dating, and while BF is welcome in your home, your daughter is not permitted to go places with him without supervision you deem to be adequate. I'd share that with his parents as well. Before you have that talk, you'll have to brainstorm situations like high school football games/dances, etc. I had to impose a similar limit on my son and it seemed reasonable that they could attend together, but I provided transportation to and from. </p>
<p>You can tell them you'll revisit the situation when she turns a year older, so whatever you personally think is appropriate.</p>
<p>If the judgement issue is not in your opinion boyfriend related, then it's tougher because you'll need to think about what the cause of the problem is-was she fine until recently, or is there a pattern of lapses when she's got enough independence to make bad decisions?</p>
<p>I consider this situation to be an enormous blessing. How fortunate you are that your D messed up in an area where another adult is able to mete out the consequence (which in this case is that her employer is concerned about her ability to properly care for children).</p>
<p>Your response was as mine had been many times in the past. Now you get to hear from the new-and-improved (and wiser) me. Step back, and don't dillute the pain of her embarrassment by getting involved. Teens will often then fell less worse, as they will begin to feel that push-back urge toward the parent. It is way more effective to show some empathy toward her and her humiliation. </p>
<p>You don't need to apply a consequence. First of all, having a boyfriend over (between you and me and all the other readers, and the lamp post) is certainly not a big deal in the scope of things. She didn't put the kids in danger. She failed to perform properly, as expected, on a job. Babysitting is a great thing for her, and you shouldn't "throw out the baby with the bathwater". Don't make this a global reaction/punishment when specific consequences will do. You do not need to worry about letting her babysit in the future. Let the babysitting marketplace take care of that. This family will probably tell others, or at the least others will notice that they stopped using her. And they will no longer recommend her to others. Help her to work through that in her mind, in a sympathetic way. Encourage her to find other customers, and wish her luck with that. :-)</p>
<p>Your daughter will learn from this and never do it again. She does not need to be barred from babysitting other children. Let her find more customers. You of course, may sweetly share with her that, while you feel awful about it, you are no longer free to recommend her to your friends and acquaintences (you of course would never bad-mouth her, you would just say nothing). That is a fair natural consequence. And do not worry about people using her. Keep an eye on her, but trust that what she did is in no way a huge concern which should bar participation in that employment.</p>
<p>Your job is to morph gradually into a consultant, and this is a gimme in terms of a lesson. If she does something which requires a consequence from you, that will be a different story. With teens, we really want to step out of the way when the real world can do a little of the parenting for us. Those are the most effective lessons of all.</p>