Parents Who Do Not Know The Value of A Good Education

Paying for College
141

<p>So, astrife, what do you plan to do if you get rejected from all the Ivy league colleges you have applied to?</p>

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<p>Well, come to think of it, the academics at the school I picked really didn't have much to do with it, I figured that most good schools would use the same text books and that I probably couldn't tell the difference between a good professor or a great one being as I haven't ever seen either. If prestige were a major factor I wouldn't have picked the Ivy I did, I picture college as a form of vacation, or like the last meal the people on death row get, after undergrad (although yes, undergrad will be allot of work) Grad school probably won't be much fun and a job won't be THAT fun, so I didn't want to go to a big school where I would have mass classes and have to fight to see professors, or a smaller school that wasn't really that good and I wasn’t challenged as thoroughly as I know I can be. The biggest sway in picking a school I had was what type of people I thought would go there, and I think I made a good choice; thus far the people have been nice, intelligent, cultured, and willing to share these attributes with me. My parents don't make allot and they manage to save for a very comfortable retirement, if worst come to worst I think I would rather have my retirement while I am young, although I just have to think I can make more than them with a better education (they are teachers, none of this networking stuff matters, they were begged to take the jobs they have now, dad didn't even have to ask).</p>

143

<p>
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I picture college as a form of vacation

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OK, I get it -- a few months ago my daughter came to me and said that she wants to go to Europe this summer with her boyfriend. I said, "um, I don't think that's the kind of thing that you should expect your mom to pay for." She said "no problem", and then the next thing I knew she had a job in a retail store and was working every weekend. </p>

<p>Whatever we parents "owe" our kids, an extended vacation probably isn't on the list. It goes back to my analogy about flying first class - every once in a while one of my kids manages to get themselves a free upgrade to first class, usually as a reward after being bumped from an overbooked flight -- and I am sure they enjoy it. (My son really likes the free drinks). But I've paid for my kids to travel all over the world, and all they will ever get from me is whatever it costs for the cheapest available fare. They've got to figure out how to get the upgrades on their own.</p>

<p>That being said, I really don't find fault for your reasons for choosing your college. Its just that there are dozens of private colleges where you could find "nice, intelligent, cultured" people. Keep in mind that the public universities and less selective colleges are filled with students who wanted to attend Ivies but either didn't get in, or got in and couldn't afford the tuition. Smart students in less selective colleges often find themselves on a fast track toward more advanced courses, either because they are accepted into honors or special degree programs, or have enough AP credits to get advanced standing right from the start -- so there is plenty of challenge to be found anywhere. </p>

<p>In any case you are in a different situation, because apparently your parents have plenty set aside for retirement - so even if they have to tighten their belts to send you to your college of choice, it doesn't sound like you expect them to put their own futures at risk.</p>

<p>As to your statement,
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If worst come to worst I think I would rather have my retirement while I am young

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You will have a very different view of things when you are 50. Somehow I don't see myself as a future Walmart greeter. But if that's what you want, fine.</p>

144

<p>astrife, let me put it this way. I am more than happy to show my posts on this thread to my daughter. Would you be willing to show your posts to your mom?</p>

<p>Another thought, calmom's question about what astrife will do if he doesn't get in to an Ivy is interesting, but I think his answer to what will he do if he IS accepted to the school of his dreams, and the bucks don't miraculously appear would be equally interesting.</p>

145

<p>You know, until the last post, where he basically called everyone who disagrees with him trailer trash who got knocked up and live sad little lower-middle class lives, I thought astrife was at least worth straightening out. At this point, the only reason I'm even still hanging around this thread is because it's a valuable lesson in how not to be an amazing *******.</p>

<p>Oh, btw, everybody, apparently no one else heres strives for excellence. We embrace mediocrity. Good to know. See, I always thought being a good son, caring for my parents, eventually acquiring the best education I could afford, and getting a decent job and all that jazz...that was an excellent life. I guess not. Now I'm going to go out and be a giant tool and try to make as much money and be as arrogant, condescending and ignorant as possible. Thanks for straightening me out on the meaning of excellence, astrife.</p>

146

<p>
[quote]
If prestige were a major factor I wouldn't have picked the Ivy I did, I picture college as a form of vacation, or like the last meal the people on death row get. </p>

<p>biggest sway in picking a school I had was what type of people I thought would go there, and I think I made a good choice; thus far the people have been nice, intelligent, cultured, and willing to share these attributes with me.

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</p>

<p>This is just a bit scary because in a way it shows that you really don't respect your parents money (as somewhere in the back of their heads after all of your pressuring, they may thing that they are giving you an opportunity for a great education)</p>

<p>If that is the attitude that you are going to college with then your vacation will be over before it starts. </p>

<p>Maybe it's somthing with this class of 2010 but I don't know anyone currently who is looking at college as a $43,810 vacation.</p>

147

<p>"Also, note that the reason students like astrife are so frustrated with attending a state university is that all their hard work might go down the drain. They might feel that they could have not worked as hard if they knew they were going to attend a state university anyway since many state universities just base their admissions on numbers"</p>

<p>If that's how they think, then they were never Ivy material anyway. Places like Ivies want students who would work hard academically and with their ECs just for the thrill of learning.</p>

<p>The students whose sole reason for studying is to get into the Ivy are not the type of people that Ivies want to admit.</p>

<p>Meanwhile, there are plenty of students at state universities that are brilliant, self motivated and have a genuine love of learning and of pursuing productive ECs. Just because a university bases admissions on the numbers does not mean that the students are unworthy of attending college with people who can get accepted by Ivies.</p>

148

<p>Hey, don't bash Penn State! You might not get in there either!</p>

149

<p>In checking the OP's back posts, I found the below gems. Troll? Naive? Immature? I don't know, but I do know that if I were his parents, I wouldn't sacrifice my future for him to go to a high priced college either.</p>

<p>"Take this advice... If you're a nerd like most of the people on CC keep working on yourself and make lots of money... the social skills will develop with time... by making lots of money you will attract a semi-hot wife/girlfriend (no matter what women tell you a man's resources is about 30-40% of his attractivness it's just a biological fact that a female will be attracted to a male that has the most resources to care for his future offspring)... and you won't even be thinking about this high school social structure that goes on around you...</p>

<p>If you want play now... just work on your looks... yes it is possible to work on them... and be as arrogant as possible (the dumb ones eat that up)... the rest works itself out"</p>

<p>"naive teenagers... the only good parties involve free flowing alcohol... when you are older you'll learn that"</p>

150

<p>Oh Northstarmom, you are devious... this datamining game is interesting. Let's just say that the OP's GPA leaves something to be desired. His evil ignorant mom apparently allowed him to apply ED to his top choice school; looks like he was deferred. So now its mom's fault that he can't go to that school.</p>

151

<p>wow calmom and northstarmom you really are pathetic... you track posts on an online forum for some anonymous teenager so you can semi-humiliate him in front of your "forum friends"... go get a job or something</p>

<p>And if you really want to know... this is my story... I didn't care about school until junior year... To say the least I slacked off... when I finally got a goal (med school) I had a reason to try.... Ever since then I've made straight A's (I'm currently in 5 AP Classes and taking 8 college hrs and have A's in everything)... I'm not naturally brilliant like most of the kids on here so I studied hard for like 9 months for the ACT and ended up with a 33 which I was pleased with....</p>

<p>So stats lowdown if you must
GPA: 3.86 and will be 3.98 by next semester if I can keep the trend
Rank: 20/592 top 3% if you can't calculuate
ACT: 33 (99%)</p>

<p>I personally am pleased with my turn around... b/c with at the start of my junior year I had a 3.4 GPA...</p>

<p>My mom let me apply ED to JHU because she didn't add certain income that she was supposed to and it looked as if our EFC was going to be really low. She went to an accountant recently and the error was realised. So even if I got into my top choice RD I wouldn't be able to go now. Notre Dame was my next prospect, but that is nixed as well.</p>

<p>Oh you people take things way to seriously.... I seriously think you sit here watching this thread waiting for me to say something so you can pounce on it...</p>

<p>And for all of you that feel that I am bashing lower tier schools... I'm not...I feel quite fortunate that I'm receiving money from a top 100 LAC... I do know plenty of kids who are facing hostile parents who don't even want them looking at colleges beyond our state school (one girl with a 34 ACT and a 4.5 GPA). This girl could get money and go almost anywhere, but her controlling parents won't let her even explore her options. Im not in this predicament, but I am in a similar one. And it sucks to say the least. We all have dreams trashed, and this just happens to be one of mine that's being trashed right now. I'll work hard and overcome for sure, but nonetheless I'm allowed my time to feel bitter and resentful about it. </p>

<p>And everything I said in those quotes from Northstarmom are true... heh... religious/fanciful people tend to take qualms with them, but we are naked apes ultimately, and trying to escape millions of years of evolution by explaining everything in abstract concepts is just misguided...</p>

152

<p>I hate to say it, but as a virtually unhooked applicant even with a 33 ACT your chances of getting into HYP is going to be very slim.</p>

153

<p>I never even applied to HYP... I'm not that delusional...</p>

154

<p>Astrife, I'm going to try one more time to get through to you on a level you may understand. Excellence can be a cruel mistress. JHU searches for excellence in their merit award recipients that you didn't have (according to them). You search for parental excellence your mom doesn't have (according to you). Give yourself and your mom a break. This obsession with the "best" is ruining you. Your pride and anger are blinding you. Making you say stupid things. Be who you are. Don't let your school of attendance define you. For that matter, don't let anyone define you. F 'em and feed 'em fish heads.</p>

<p>I hope you find peace of mind.</p>

<p>BTW, it ain't that bad being a goat in a room full of sheep.Trust me on this one.</p>

155

<p>Ok we'll include Columbia, brown, Cornell, Dartmouth and Penn</p>

<p>You have already received a full ride to a school embrace the blessing that it is. It is a good thing to know that no matter how the process plays out that you have a school that you can attend for free (so don't curse your blessing).</p>

<p>IF something better comes along, than it is gravy. If you take the free ride it frees up money so that maybe your parents can help you with a study abroad, a research project or even graduate school. </p>

<p>(Trust me eveything is not always what is cracked up to be. My daughter already knows that Professional school is on her becasue we are handling undergrad and she knew we could not afford to help her with both)</p>

<p>But I really think you have to stop feeling that your parents are uncaring because they are not willing to take on massive debt.</p>

156

<p>trust me sybbie I know the limits of my application... I know if I had started with my run when I was a freshman I would be looking at different schools... I knew JHU was a reach with my stats, I still went for it... I could still possibly get into ND (it's about 50/50 with my estimates), but it really doesn't matter...</p>

<p>Well Curm... I'm not trying to say I've had the worst childhood or anything of that nature... but I've never had a father, and I've only had a chaotic mother for 18 years... so basically all the support structures in my life came from within me... that's probably why Im so confident (arrogant), it's a defense against the world... I've got my eyes open wide enough to see this kind of thing... </p>

<p>I'm just trying survive right now... and the only way I know how is to do everything I can to secure a good future... it's hard to understand as you sit in your stable life as an adult... but right now I'm looking for something I can latch onto to survive... and right now that is my future... </p>

<p>I don't expect people to see the world the way I do... And I don't want people to make me see the world their way...</p>

<p>I've got my way... and it works fine for now... maybe when I'm older I'll grow less cold... but right now it's what i've got...</p>

157

<p>astrife, I'm not trying to get you to see the world my way or beat you like a harp seal. It's just that you are going to get left behind by life if you can't let go of some of this crap now. </p>

<p>It's a lot of baggage to carry and a good long time to carry it. Again, trust me. I know. </p>

<p>Don't put off being happy till such time in the future when you've "made it". You'll just keep moving the bar further away from yourself. (Insert "trust me" phrase again.) You'll never let yourself get there.</p>

<p>You are talking to the original angry guy. I created my own belief structure. My own religion (I'm still working on that one). I was smarter than those around me. I thought differently. The fact THAT I thought was different. Wasn't that great a way to grow up. Kept me safe from my feelings, though. My anger kept me warm at night, too but ultimately it let me down . It will let you down , too. (Insert phrase again.)</p>

<p>Good luck, kid. Maybe you'll figure it out faster than I did. Oh yeah, and the "f' em and feed 'em fish heads" line? You can keep it. It'll come in handy.</p>

158

<p>Astrife - I didn't post to humiliate you, if I had I would have been more specific. Your posts detailing your own stats weren't hard to find - this board does have a search function and it seems like somewhere along the way most students post a "chances" query in which they reveal everything about their high school life including their preferred color of underwear. </p>

<p>But the point is that you started a rant blaming your mom in a situation concerning a reach college where the odds are that you won't be admitted. And in your most recent post it is now very clear that your mom was very supportive but after working with an accountant has realized that you will have an EFC she can't meet; at the same time you are fortunate because you can get a full ride to attend a well-regarded private LAC in your home state -- so its not as if you are left in the lurch. </p>

<p>The fact that your mom has spent time going over the figures with her CPA tells me that she is VERY concerned about your education -- she just does not have the financial ability to pay for it. There is no shame in that -- the fact is that private tuitions are out of reach for all but the very top eschelons of our society. Your family's $80K income is very respectable, especially for the part of the country where you live - it is well above median. In fact, that is precisely the problem - your mom makes too much to qualify for the financial aid needed. It is a predicament that many middle class families face. </p>

<p>If you had merely posted how disappointed you were that you now learned that your mom could not afford to pay for colleges that you have applied to but not yet been admitted to... everyone here would have been very sympathetic. But you have had to go the extra step of bashing your mom and putting her down for not haveing the ability to pay nor being foolhardy enough to cosign for a note. If your mom has been through tough times financially in the past, then she knows the perils of getting in over her head in debt. </p>

<p>If you really want to go to medical school, then you would be a fool not to attend the college that is offering you a free ride. That college has a well-regarded premed program; 12% of doctors practicing in your state got their undergraduate degrees there. There is a high likelihood that you would do very well there, earning a higher GPA than at colleges like JHU or Notre Dame, where the competition for grades might be a lot tougher. </p>

<p>But the most important thing is that medical school is very expensive -- and that is followed with years of long hours and minimal pay as you complete your internship & residency. What you have in front of you is an opportunity to conserve resources -- and your mom has that as well -- and conserving the resources now may open the door for you to enter a more costly medical school when the time comes. </p>

<p>You seem to think that the problems would be solved if your mom would only borrow the money or cosign a note, because some day you will make enough as a doctor to pay her back. That attitude merely shows how little you understand about money. In the first place, if your mom is as unstable as you portray her, its unlikely that she has strong enough credit to qualify for the types of loans you would want her to take out. Even if she does have credit, borrowing for one purpose could hamper her ability to borrow for any other -- one measure of credit worthiness is the debt to income ratio of the borrower. Payments on most loans begin immediately, and interest rates are going up. And the road from undergrad through medical school through internship & residency is a long one.... in the meantime, how are the loan payments being made? </p>

<p>So basically, your mom supported you and let you do something I wouldn't allow my own children to do (apply to a private college ED) -- and now she has gotten professional advice on her finances and realized she isn't going to be able to manage it. She told you, and apparently you threw a fit (although maybe you simply vented online). It's a moot issue in any case, because you haven't been accepted to the schools you are whining about. </p>

<p>So any way you look at it, it isn't your mom's fault and she is not standing in your way or preventing your future sucess: on the contrary, if she sticks to her guns and insists that you go to the college that offers the full ride, she is sending you down the most practical and realistic path there is toward fulfilling your dreams. She has the wisdom to recognize that if you (or she) blow off whatever money you've got on a fancy undergrad education, you won't have a dime to your name and will have a mountain of debt by the time you are ready for med school. With all that debt, you will have a hard time borrowing more at that point.</p>

159

<p>Why is life so cruel? My stats makes me to believe I have a great chance at Ivys. My parents are so poor that CC or a state school seems to be my only option. All this work down the drain. I wonder if my depression will intensify as November approaches.</p>

160

<p>Heads up Ivies meet 100% of need and sometimes beyond that</p>

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Harvard University announced over the weekend that from now on</p>

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