<p>If a college applicant is pretty sure they want to major in nursing, then they probably aren’t looking at the ivies or elites to begin with. Many students are undecided when they apply to college. Assuming your daughter did not know what they wanted to major in, and was not likely to want to specialize in something that requires a specialized training (eg, nursing, engineering, etc), got into and wanted to attend an expensive elite school and money was no object, would you support her?</p>
<p>"As for “honors” programs, totally agree that they can not be looked at as equals across the board. Here, for example, is the minimum requirement for admission to an Honors program (special housing, smaller classes, etc at a State U that will remain unnamed:
Quote:
Generally, the minimum criteria for consideration are 27 ACT (combined SAT score of 1210<em>) and a 3.5 core high school grade point average (as calculated by the Office of Admissions).</em>*
-Agree, very low. In comparison (as I have stated earlier), D’s Honors qualifications were top 2% of HS class (that would be much higher than 3.5. My D. was not making top 2% while ranked #1 (4.0 uw) because her HS class was only 33 kids, so one top kids was making top 3%) and ACT=31+. So, she ended up surrounde by valedictorians i her Honors. You can easily estimate it by the size of Honors. At D’s large UG, Honors had only 200 spots, the next top 500 were accepted to Scholars that had somewhat less advantages than Honors. In addition, D. was accepted to selective program that had only 10 spots. Needless to say that this program was super selective (some mentioned that more so than Ivy’s with number of applicant in hundreds) and was the main reason why my D. decided to attend this specific state UG. Looking back it was a perfect place for her.<br>
BTW, to be at perfect place for specific student is the best goal. I am not saying that everybody is choosing this way though. If a kid is after prestige and does not care about financial side and potential 4 years of misery, then this is the way she should choose. Everybody is different. My D. is thinking about 4 years of education as 4 years of her life and it is extremely important for her to be comfy and happy at the place of her choice both at UG level as well as Grad. School. She also does not care too much about opinions of others.</p>
<p>jym, I probably would, depending on other factors. I have never been on CC crowing about how expensive privates are a rip off, overrated, etc. In fact, after I visited Stanford with D1, I wanted to go there! However, I just don’t think the expensive privates are the only place to get a good education and become a success in life, both personally and professionally. Sorry, I just don’t.</p>
<p>If money were no object, and my D wanted nursing, I’d pay in full for her to go to UPenn (or another top college offering nursing), for the reason you gave, jym626 - most students change their majors - and also because the experience of spending 4 years at UPenn will be so much different (in my view, better in many ways) than at an inexpensive college that specializes in nursing.</p>
<p>^^^Bingo^^^</p>
<p>I also think post #107 hit the nail on the head. I would only add “what about the social cost of a prestige race?” </p>
<p>If a multi-millionaire decides to pay $50K+ a year for his kid’s education - fine, his free cash balance goes down a little. But if “Six-Pack Joe” or “Supervisor Suzy” decides to send their kid to a high-cost college, they most likely have stopped contributing to and/or raided their retirement fund and borrowed heavily to finance the cost. Given the economy, what if they lose their job, or have their overtime cut back? What happens if the kid becomes a social worker instead of a brain surgeon and can’t supplement mom and dad’s retirement or pay for the nursing home? I don’t think it’s right that I should be paying higher taxes for welfare and medicaid because Joe and Suzy decided to roll the dice on an elite college.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>But there are other options, too. There are great state flagships which offer not only a great nursing curriculum, but many other strong programs as well. I’m a nurse, and I cringe at the prospect of spending that kind of money on a professional degree when it’s available at some other great institutions (perhaps your “other top colleges offering nursing”) for a fraction of the cost. I know what the salaries of nurses are, and I’ve seen in the field that pedigree is meaningless for the most part. Just having money doesn’t necessarily mean you have to spend it.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>So now we have two people who haven’t read a book claiming that someone who has is mischaracterizing it. How very CC!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Except that what Deresciewcz says aligns perfectly with the results of the NSSE, which show that even at elite schools, there are students who slide through.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I have a friend who’s a professor of nursing at a very non-prestigious private university. Her school’s placement rate? 100%.</p>
<p>When money is no object, many would want to give their children the best possible education with the widest possible opportunities to explore different course offerings and career options, meet people from all walks of life, and experience the arts/athletics/other ECs, and graduate with a credential that may open doors for them due to its reputation and alumni network. These are the reasons I’d pay for the top college, even if my child thought s/he wanted to be a stay-home parent.</p>
<p>I guess after 170 posts, we’ve concluded that some think getting a degree is just that degree,and where you get it from is not important…then there is the camp that believe that they would spend their money for a ‘perceived’ better institution, then a middle of the road school…this is no different then those who think spending money on a luxury car or luxury home or what have you is a waste, while others feel differently…as an upthread post said, they could afford a Lexus,so that is what they drive, it IS a better car then their old car Geo…BUT, if they could not affird the Lexus, they would drive the Geo…</p>
<p>There is no reason to take on significant debt to go to college, but if you can AFFORD a better school,whether it be a pricey,private over a flagship, or a flagship over a secondary type state school, do it…</p>
<p>Annasdad, you make a point about not attending a pricey school when you can go to a state flagship for less, could you(or someone else) make th point that a seconday state school is a btter value then the flagship,vis a vie costs…OR, does the quality end at the flagship, hence value is not worth it…i guess my point is there may be many people who share your beliefs,but think flagships are overpriced,and secondary and tertiary state schools are better values…</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>So I guess the crux of the matter is that there is a train of thought here that the elite 50K+ university is without question “the best.” Period. End of discussion.</p>
<p>Depending on the kid, it may well be. But I disagree with the notion that it’s a given. Sorry. Not convinced. I’ve seen too much evidence to the contrary.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Who has said that?</p>
<p>Just to chime in. I think you have to evaluate the schools on their individual merit. Some schools are worth the big price tag and some “elite” schools are not. My D is going to Williams and they gave a very generous financial aid package. Considering hubby and I make good money I was surprised to receive anything. As a matter of fact, I bet I am paying less than what most people are paying at so so universities.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>You will always have a slacker/intellectually incurious element in every university. </p>
<p>However, one great thing about respectable/elite private universities and their public peers(i.e. UC Berkeley, UCLA, UVA, UNC, UMich, UTexas, UWisc, UIllinois, etc) is that you’ll encounter far less of them at those places than at an average/mediocre state school IME. </p>
<p>Minimizing this element was one criterion I used to evaluate undergrad colleges/universities for myself and judging by HS classmates…even those near the bottom of the class who felt they had to transfer out of their initial NY state/city colleges…including the flagships because there was not enough of a critical mass of students functioning at their academic level/seriousness at those campuses. </p>
<p>Granted…the slacker/intellectually incurious also exist at elite private LACs/universities…believe me I’ve seen it!! However, they tend to be a tiny minority and their outlook tends to be regarded as a great negative by the larger campus culture instead of something that “just is”.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I guess it may depend on what your goals in life are. My DH went to a secondary state school rather than the flagship. He got a finance degree. He has gone on to be a spectacular person, both in terms of his personal life as a husband and father, and a very successful business man. Reading through this thread, I might have to conclude that it’s a shame he didn’t go to a 50 K + school because he has received an inferior education, and had he only gone to the “best” he would be…happier? wealthier? smarter as a result of his 4 years of “rigor” 30 years ago? If he could do it over again with money as no object, would he do it differently? In order to achieve more? More what? Maybe he just doesn’t know what he’s missing.</p>
<p>I’d like to see a list of which “elite” colleges are not worth the money.</p>
<p>^^^^^but “worth the money” may be defined differently-it seems to be very subjective.</p>
<p>If we limit it to what appears to be OP’s options (s/he said a “top 15”), here are USNWR’s top 15:</p>
<p>Harvard
Princeton
Yale
Columbia
CalTech
MIT
Stanford
Chicago
UPenn
Duke
Dartmouth
Northwestern
JHU
WUSTL
Brown
Cornell (tie)</p>
<p>Opinions about the high cost in general aside, does anyone have a subjective opinion about whether any of those are not worth spending top dollar for? And if so, what are the reasons? It might give OP more direction for his/her decision.</p>
<p>^Definitely very subjective. In my d’s mind NO college/Grad. School is worth to be far away from home pricey or not Elite or state. BTW, some privates do offer great Merit packages, just need to research. They might not be as Elite though and they might have emphasis on certain majors much more than others. One such UG is Case. While it is not part of Elite, this private small UG is great for engineers and pre-meds, has great Med. School, and very well known for great merit packages for top applicants.</p>
<p>^What does far away from home have to do with it?</p>