Please critique my college list.

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Hello,</p>

<p>I am going to be visiting colleges soon and wanted to make sure that I fully considered all of my options before doing so. In the interest of being brief, I have included a quick summary of what I'm looking for below.</p>

<p>-good non-STEM departments and a balanced student body (i.e. not a tech school)
-good undergrad computer science and economics programs
-professors who care about teaching undergrads
-availability of internships at large companies (e.g. Google, Microsoft)
-active social and cultural environment (parties, clubs, concerts, museums, etc.)
-at most 53% male population (see ‘balanced student body’)
-access to a major city within an hour (the closer, the better)
-four seasons (i.e. not on the western or southern coasts)</p>

<p>I am going to be majoring in computer science, but have broad interests and will definitely be studying other areas such as economics, classics, and humanities, as well.</p>

<p>My statistics are high enough that they aren't worth discussing (4.0 GPA, over 2300 SAT, etc.) and I am lucky enough to not have to worry about finances.</p>

<p>My list is as follows:</p>

<p>Brown University
Harvard University
University of Chicago</p>

<p>Boston University
New York University</p>

<p>University of Maryland, College Park (is this truly a safety if I live in Pennsylvania?)</p>

<p>If anyone can give anecdotes or more information about these schools, that would be appreciated. I would also be very interested to learn about other colleges that fit my criteria which I may not have considered yet.</p>

<p>Thanks in advance for your help, it is sincerely appreciated.</p>

2

<p>Again, any help would be appreciated.</p>

3

<p>Pitt is probably a solid safety for you, also, and more urban/cosmopolitan. I’d consider adding Tufts, Vanderbilt, Washington U, U of Washington, and Lehigh to the list, to fill it out nicely.</p>

4

<p>I understand that it is totally personal preference, but if you want profs. that teach undergrads, have you considered some mid-sized universities or LACs? </p>

5

<p>Thank you both very much for your responses!</p>

<p>Thanks for the suggestions of colleges to add. The University of Washington is unfortunately not really an option since it’s on the west coast, but I’ll be sure to look into the rest of the schools and see what they’re like.</p>

<p>I have considered smaller schools, but don’t think I’d really be happy in a situation where there are only 12 other people majoring in the same subject I am. I’d much prefer to just find my niche in a larger university that’s in the city because of the opportunities that opens up.</p>

<p>What I meant about professors is that I don’t want them to view undergrads as a nuisance. I understand that at larger universities their attention will be split in many directions, but I don’t want that to negatively impact the quality of my education.</p>

<p>The more I’ve been researching the University of Maryland, College Park, the less sure I am of its current position on the list as my only safety school. Will the small (23%) out of state population and the fact that I’m going to major in computer science make it so that I can’t count on an acceptance there despite the overall acceptance rate of 47%?</p>

6

<p>Your initial list is not very convincing. I would keep both Harvard and Brown. But I would encourage you to research the other reach and match colleges. There is a folklore about “professors not being especially enthusiastic regarding under graduate teaching” at top ranked private universities. This is rarely the case and many students at such universities rave about their professors. If you’re looking to do significant undergraduate research and to secure those prestigious intern jobs at Google etc. focus on the higher ranked private universities with very strong CS programs. Most such universities have excellent economics departments.</p>

<p>I would encourage you to identify an ED/EA university. Perhaps it is Brown or Harvard. The acceptance rate at the ED round is much higher (3x to 4x for some) than at RD. The advantage at EA universities is not as compelling.</p>

<p>Then I would encourage you to pick 6-8 reach universities with world class CS departments. Since you don’t want a “specialized” technical university you can skip MIT. Keep in mind though that MIT has an exceptional economic department. Which “reach universities”? You prefer urban so Dartmouth and Cornell don’t fit. But certainly of the Ivies Harvard, Brown, UPenn, Princeton, Yale and Columbia do. One notch below (low reach/match) there’s John Hopkins and CMU, both inherently urban. I would encourage to loosen the “four season” criteria and add Stanford to your list. Stanford is a 30-45 minute drive or train ride from San Francisco. You may find the climate sufficiently varied.</p>

<p>I would encourage you to pick 3-4 match universities. Perhaps John Hopkins and CMU serve as 2 of these. Those lower on the list, such as Northeastern may do. Keep in mind that those that are lower down may not be ones where there’s active recruiting from elite corporations. There are several public universities that may do, although generally I don’t think they would meet your criteria.</p>

<p>For the match I would pick your State’s flagship.</p>

<p>Your chances at the reach schools would depend to a great degree on the depth and scope of your leadership skills and experience. You have not listed these so perhaps your high school counselor would be a good source for advise.</p>

7

<p>Thank you for taking the time to write such a thorough response.</p>

<p>What about the list left you feeling that way? I have spent a not insignificant amount of time researching schools to narrow it down to the six you see above. They all fulfill my criteria and have excellent computer science departments. Have I overlooked anything about these schools that would make them a poor choice?</p>

<p>In terms of quantity, I really don’t want to spread myself too thin. I would much rather just apply to a handful of colleges that I would definitely be happy going to than 13 just for the sake of sending out more applications. It seems like keeping my list curated would also have the benefit of giving me the time to polish my applications and personalize them to each school. Is this misguided reasoning?</p>

<p>I will definitely be applying early decision to one of the universities, but I’d like to wait until visiting them to choose which.</p>

<p>My aversion to tech schools is more due to the student body at these institutions than the quality of their liberal arts educations. I’d like to go to school with people that are significantly different from me so we can learn from our unique experiences. I attend a small private school, so spending more time in a bubble, even if it’s of a different sort, isn’t too appealing.</p>

<p>Thanks for the suggestions of other schools to look at; I will definitely explore these options more thoroughly. The reason Carnegie Mellon isn’t on my list is twofold. The acceptance rate for computer science hovers at about 6%, which would immediately make it a reach. This wouldn’t be a problem, if not for the fact that everything I’ve read about the school so far has made it seem as if all of its departments and students are mediocre with the exception of STEM areas, which is not something I’m looking for.</p>

<p>My ‘four seasons’ criterion isn’t exclusively because of my love of cold weather, but also because I would prefer to stay in the northeastern social environment during college. I realize this may seem contradictory considering my above statements, but it’s the case regardless.</p>

<p>Thanks again for your response; it’s given me much to think about.</p>

8

<p>You could apply EA to UChicago and ED to Brown, which could give you a boost for Brown and eliminate the need for any safety if you are deferred from Brown and accepted at UChicago.</p>

<p>I’m curious about where you got the 6% acceptance rate for CS at Carnegie Mellon. I’ve been looking for information about acceptance rate by school within a university (Naviance doesn’t include this info), but I haven’t had much success. Knowing rates by proposed major would also be great.</p>

<p>Good luck with your search and your applications!</p>

9

<p>@ag11600‌ <a href=“http://admission.enrollment.cmu.edu/pages/undergraduate-admission-statistics”>http://admission.enrollment.cmu.edu/pages/undergraduate-admission-statistics&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

10

<p>Thank you @loquatical! </p>

11

<p>CMU is the toughest CS program in the country to get admitted into, as far as I know. It is hardly a “notch below” any other CS undergraduate program.</p>

<p>Stanford is another obvious choice, as the founders of Google are Stanford alum’s. Good luck with your applications!</p>

12

<p>To answer your question re why I found the list unconvincing it’s to some extent because for someone with your stats and stated ambitions it was too short. I know that many on this forum advocate short lists but for someone who has good chances at the best universities applying to 10-13 universities is really unavoidable. Doing less means giving up some reasonable chances. The second reason is because U of Chicago, BU and NYU do not have compelling CS programs. They are not on the A list of the elite companies you mention for CS. U of Maryland is not a bad choice if you are a Maryland resident.</p>

13

<p>OP, most Silicon Valley companies will recruit locally (see <a href=“The Schools Where Apple, Google, and Facebook Get Their Recruits | WIRED”>http://www.wired.com/2014/05/alumni-network-2/&lt;/a&gt;). I’d guess that Chi’s CS department is theory heavy—if you want a pre-professional education, try Northeastern. And if you can pay ~60k a year, UMich/UIUC are possible matches/high matches.</p>

14

<p>Thanks to everyone who has weighed in; you have all been very helpful!</p>

<p>I had no idea you could apply both early action and early decision; if that’s the case, I’ll definitely do so!</p>

<p>Thanks for the explanation, I’ll talk it over with my college adviser. Could you please point me to the list you mentioned? I’d be interested to see what schools made it. Overall though, it’s not hugely important for me to have a ‘top’ computer science department; I’m more interested in the overall school experience and the strength of their non-STEM departments because I feel like success is not so much a factor of where you went as what you did there.</p>

<p>That chart was very interesting, thanks for showing it to me! I actually like the idea of a more theory-based department because I already have experience programming and will definitely be continuing to do so, but theory is the hardest thing to learn independently. Northeastern didn’t really appeal to me because I’d much rather save the working for the summer internships and focus on college during the year. I’ll look into the other two schools you mentioned, though.</p>

15

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<p>It may be a safety if your family has agreed to pay the OOS costs. Have they? You might get some merit, but I don’t think there are any assurances for amounts, etc.</p>

16

<p>Unless Brown is by far your first choice, I wouldn’t do ED. </p>

<p>You sound more UChicago to me given your commitment to your breadth of academic interests. I would do UChicago EA. I think you have a good chance. It’s just a hunch. You will not find a more intellectual school that meets your criteria. Their CS department is fine and their graduates do extremely well and and do end up in silicon valley if they choose. They are strong in Theory, Systems and AI. Not so much in application programming. </p>

<p>I’d keep UChicago, Brown and Harvard. </p>

<p>NYU is a nice safety for you. Yes it is. You’re (4.0,2300) and full pay. No way they reject you. None. It’s a large school that awards puny financial aid. If they rejected students like you they could never fill their classrooms. They need to admit you. </p>

<p>Eliminate BU. It’s way below what you are looking for.
Eliminate CMU - I think that you are too locked into to the school you get admitted to and your broad interests suggest that it’s not the best fit. </p>

<p>Who can know what University of Maryland will do, but I can’t see them rejecting you. At Pitt you would be in the Honors Program. They have world class departments in Philosophy and Psychology, and their CS is pretty good given that they are next door to CMU and have cross-registration with them. They also make decisions very fast, so you would have an admission and scholarship before you even had to get your EA applications out. </p>

<p>Some other selective schools to consider:
Northwestern
Johns Hopkins
Rochester
Brandeis (may be smaller than you are looking for but you should consider it).
Tufts
WUSTL</p>

<p>Johns Hopkins has seamless transition between engineering and A&S. Penn, which might be good, does not. CS is in engineering and you can’t double major, you can only do a double degree program which takes an extra year. </p>

<p>Frankly though, if you just did your existing list and added Pitt you would have a great list. Getting an admission in October is really really nice. </p>

17

<p>They’re willing and able to pay full tuition if need be. But in terms of actually getting in, do you think it’s a realistic choice?</p>

18

<p>Thanks RockerDad for the response and the excellent suggestions!</p>

<p>What differentiates Brown and Chicago? From what I read, they seemed to attract the same type of student. The open curriculum in particular seems like it would be great for someone who wants to study a lot of varying subjects.</p>

<p>You make a good argument for NYU being a safety, but I’d still like to have a more traditional back-up school with an admit rate >40% like Maryland. I actually have a friend going to Pitt, so I’ll talk to him about it. He’s in bioengineering, so he should be able to give me a good idea of what the school’s like. So far he’s been happy there.</p>

<p>I took your advice and eliminated Boston University. It was the only school I didn’t feel strongly about anyway, so it probably wouldn’t have stayed on the list long once I started researching all of the schools that have been recommended here.</p>

19

<p>I think UChicago is way more intense, Brown more laid back. This is especially true in economics. The Core is attractive to some who wants to dabble in “Great Books” in a lot of different areas and want it somewhat pre-thought out by scholars. Brown allows you to avoid areas that either scare you or don’t interest you. UChicago really makes you get a broad education. Someone I know compared Brown to a smorgasboard, and UChicago to carefully prepared gourmet meal by a top chef. It’s not a judgement, but really whether you want to craft the whole education by yourself, or have some foundational core. </p>

<p>Nonetheless, a lot of people seem to apply to both. </p>

<p>I think that Pitt is actually very similar to BU except Pitt has the cross registration with CMU, and they also probably attract more very strong students because of their generous scholarships. The primary benefit of applying to Pitt is the fast decision to help you sleep until April. You WILL get into NYU. </p>

20

<p>Thanks for clarifying; I’m liking Chicago more and more every time someone mentions it! I’ll definitely be applying to both schools though, because I’m confident that I’d still be able to get what I want out of Brown. I’ll be sure to spend more time thinking about what exactly I want in the college experience to make sure I know what I’m getting myself into.</p>

<p>The benefits of having a safety with rolling admissions like Pitt seem immense. I’ll be researching schools like that more to see if I can find one that fits.</p>