Pledgeship suspended for the fall

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Alabama
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<p>MikeW, I sent the email to you.</p>

<p>It doesn’t surprise me that some fraternities were/are hazing pledges, but I am glad that so many fraternities are not. If the allegations are proven true and disciplinary action is taken, I see it as a good thing that the organizations were stopped before something major happened.</p>

<p>I’ll readily admit that I don’t know why anyone in a sound mental state would condone hazing, let along take part. I also don’t understand the reason for such a long pledge process. Companies hiring people for high-paying positions often only spend a couple days interviewing applicants and any probationary period is more for specific third-party benefits. I’m a member of a some social organizations on campus, including some that operate with a structure similar to a Greek organization, yet none have a pledge period or engage in hazing. After applying to the one most similar to a Greek organization, I had a 20 minute interview and was then asked if I wanted to play a video game before I went back to my room to finish up some homework. I’m a full brother/member just like everyone else. Tradition can be fun, but there are times when certain traditions become outdated. Don’t get me started on the same color polo and unflattering jean combo required of many male pledges; there are many forms of teamwear that would be a lot better looking on 18 year-olds.</p>

<p>What really disturbed me was the comments from students and likely some adults that said how the pledges should have never reported the hazing as they knew what they were getting into. This victim blaming is unacceptable as many students join Greek organizations for the comradely and the sense of kinship and belonging, not to be subject to physical and mental harm. At least for guys, the knowledge that one has a built-in friend group, active alumni network, and plenty of social activities to meet smart, attractive women (many guys come to college very skittish around women their own age), not to mention the prospect of alcohol and a cooler personalized for them by one of said smart, attractive women. It is also worth mentioning that fraternity life/housing can be cheaper in the long run than living in the dorms or off campus.</p>

<p>In conclusion, hazing is never acceptable. People that truly love you will not knowingly try to hurt you. Greek life or not, there is a social outlet for everyone at UA provided they set aside their preconceived notions and look to see what’s best for them.</p>

<p>Have an excellent day everyone and ROLL TIDE!!!</p>

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<p>Eloquent and thoughtful, as always, SEA_tide.</p>

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<p>Mike- this is the letter that was emailed. </p>

<p>MODERATOR’S NOTE</p>

<p>I deleted the text of the email. From the Terms of Service:</p>

<p>“Also, for legal reasons, please do not quote the text of e-mail communications; such material may be paraphrased if appropriate (and if not privileged or confidential) but should not be reproduced in the forum.”</p>

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<p>Why can’t the Frats put their pledges through a wilderness (or some other kind of retreat) experience like the kind that some corporations use to build teamwork. They could put them through intense exercises without having to put them through potentially damaging ones.</p>

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<p>The most involvement I’ve ever had with Greek life was when I dated a member of a frat for a few months when I was in college, so I admit that I have very little understanding of the culture, but from the outside looking in I see a couple contributing factors with today’s young adults that create situations like this, not just in Greek life, but in many situations.</p>

<p>The first is that it is almost human nature to ‘improve’ upon the past. Those that have gone through an initiation have a drive to do it better, to be tougher, to be more memorable. What in the past may have been ‘harmless’ fun has morphed from year to year and generation to generation into what has now become hazing. There was a thread only a few months ago warning against high school senior pranks because each year as students try to be MORE creative, MORE memorable, they have turned harmless fun into situations where students are suspended or even arrested. It was just last year that a marching band member was beaten to death paricipating in a long standing tradition. I know here in the midwest, sanctions against Greek organizations is an annual event, but I can recall at leaast a couple instances where organizations have been directed to disband and have lost their houses over incidents. I see the argument that this is tradition and these kids are just going through what past members have gone through, but personally I think that’s a naive belief. As each class tries to be a little better, tries to be a little tougher, tries to push just a little harder, I’m not sure any adult, former member or not, really knows what happens ‘behind closed doors’ and exactly how extreme things have become over time.</p>

<p>The second contributing factor I’ve seen, is the complete lack of discretion in this generation. Even when they know they are doing something wrong or illegal, they don’t have any fear that there might actually be consequences. I would often check the Facebook page for the incoming class last year and mention things to my son. There was no privacy set on that page and it was viewable by the world. I was surprised to see lists of incoming freshman advising each other on where to buy fake IDs. Sure I know that happens, but for them to be openly discussing it using their legal names where it is visible by the world to me doesn’t seem particulary bright… I quickly learned the cheapest and most reliable site from which to obtain your fake ID and immediately reported it to the FCC. I know kids drink, but I’m completely against being stupid about it. I also saw incoming freshman discussing their favorite drink recipes and questioning what narcotics were the easiest to obtain and get away with using once again on a public forum that was viewable by the entire world. What ever happened to being discrete when you know you’re doing something that might have negative consequences??? I was in town for family weekend and after the game I walked with my parents to Publix while my son went to campus to get his car so he could drive us back to our hotel. We were sitting outside Publix with probably 4-5 other families waiting for rides when a young adult came out of Publix with a couple cases of beer and met several other I presume, younger adults. Right in front of all of us, they proceded to open the cases of beer and pack the cans into duffle bags and back packs and then go their separate ways. Now I don’t have any proof that perhaps those that packed the beer into their backpacks were not of legal age to buy it on their own, but that was definitely my suspicion. What I failed to understand was what would cause them to feel so comfortable in what they were doing that they didn’t even try to be discrete when they were doing this in front of more than 10 adults they had never met. They didn’t know if I or any of the rest were members of law enforcement or would call law enforcement. What ever happened to common sense??? Today’s generation seems to feel like there won’t be any consequences to their actions and if they aren’t afraid of consequences, they will often take risks that may put them in a very bad situation.</p>

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<p>Some frats, mainly those not at UA, put their pledges through a wilderness experience involving dropping pledges off in the forest and having them find their way back, which might be construed as hazing if not administered correctly. I know that’s not what **Atlanta68 ** was referring to however.</p>

<p>I seem to remember one of the fraternities, possibly Sig Ep, taking its members and pledges to a ropes course, which is a somewhat popular team building activity among corporations.</p>

<p>While fraternities do have an elected risk prevention officer, I wonder why they don’t go to a lawyer and discuss the legality of every planned pledge period activity. I’m sure the national organizations employ such lawyers, but attorney-client privilege would allow them to ethically disclose traditions to non-alumni lawyers.</p>

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<p>SEA_tide – I agree that hazing that causes harm, whether it is physical and/ or emotional, should NOT be tolerated in any organization. And, I also agree that anyone who would agree to be abused so that he can be part of a group must be desperate to belong. However, what some parents have complained about is not hazing.</p>

<p>My son’s fraternity has demanded that the young men going through pledgeship spend an extraordinary amount of time together; hence, they are building a bond that will hopefully last a lifetime. Are they sleep deprived? Yes. Have they had to clean bathrooms, mow the lawn, clean up after the older brothers, do push-ups and sit-ups and other things that are uncomfortable but not physically or emotionally abusive? Yes. However, they have done all of this together and none of the demands made on my son or his brothers should be considered to be harmful. These are the things that are helping to build strong friendships, trust, and respect between several dozen young men. In fact, I can tell you that in the few short months that my son has been going through this he has matured both emotionally and socially.</p>

<p>You cannot compare being hired for a job to becoming a member of a fraternity. Spending a day or two, or even a week or two with a group is not enough time to learn about their true character, moral beliefs, and personality. My husband graduated from college in 1985 and he’s still close to his pledge brothers and many of the older brothers who “hazed” him while going through pledgeship. Somehow I don’t think that if he had been interviewed for twenty minutes he would have bonded with his brothers like he did, and believe me, he does consider them to be his brothers. Fraternities are supposed to be about building lifelong friendships and if the pledgeship is handled correctly, and I believe most of the houses are doing a good job, it is a wonderful thing. </p>

<p>When my son decided that he wanted to join a fraternity the first thing my husband told him was that if he was asked to do anything that was immoral, unethical, or harmful that he should say no. He made it clear that any fraternity that would want a pledge to do something that showed poor character was not the kind of place that he would want to be a part of. If the fraternities being accused of hazing are found to be guilty of the allegations made against them then they should be punished. It’s just too bad that the fraternities that are not engaging in this type of behavior had to be punished as well. </p>

<p>If the hazing allegations prove that the pledges were put in harm’s way (excessive physical or emotional abuse) then I fully support the parents who complained. But if the complaints were because of the types of things that I described above then I have to say that those parents are ridiculous. My daughter and my son spent three weeks trying out for their sports in high school. They were pushed to physical exhaustion every day. Some parents complained that it was excessive, it wasn’t, and the kids who couldn’t handle it dropped out, but the athletic director didn’t put a stop to the training because some parents and students couldn’t see the benefit. The kids who made the teams were true athletes and their teams made it to State and they bonded with their teammates. A twenty minute interview doesn’t cut it for certain organizations, such as winning sport teams (Crimson Tide) and fraternities that are building a lifelong brotherhood.</p>

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<p>@lovemykids2</p>

<p>I’ve already admitted my lack of understanding about the culture, so this is a serious question that I’d really like an answer to:</p>

<p>If fraternities require the pledgeship to identify members that share their ideologies and form a bond between members, then why do sororities not require the same? How is it that sororities do not need that time duration to find members that will fit into their houses and how is it that they can still form those life long bonds? What makes the situations different?</p>

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<p>jrcsmom~you’re not the only curious one. I was wondering the exact same thing!</p>

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<p>I have reviewed all the well thought responses and the UA email that I received yesterday, and also discussed with my D who is not greek what her perception of what has occurred is. I was greek during college, and every house hazes / initiates slightly differently. There is some aspect of house traditions surrounding pledging that are completely separate from the ceremonial secret rituals, that are meant to create bonding & strength & connection of brotherhoood. Some of these are based in physicality, but unfortunately many of these involve exposure in a peer pressure situation to alcohol … and let us remember that ALL of the young men are under age. 30 years ago was a different time, and right or wrong, I entered college with some experience drinking. In today’s environment of zero tolerance at the HS level, there are many young men entering college with the admirable result that they have not been partying through high school and may have very limited exposure to alcohol. I know for a fact that my S has only the most minor exposure to drinking and has never been drunk and has NO IDEA what his limits are. According to my D, and different from ALL the sororities, the fraternities are known for their parties and partying, and my fear is that much of this surrounds hazing activity that exposes pledges to intoxicating agents in a situation of excess where many of these boys are ill equipped to deal with the situation while under peer pressure to perform. We live in a different world today, and I am hopeful that for boys like my S who does want to pledge when he’s in college that he’ll be able to participate without that fear of what’s to come. Even all those years ago, at my school a pledge at a neighbor fraternity to mine died after ingesting WAY to much alcohol and falling from a balcony during a pledge event. Things have not changed so much, and hopefully the reporting hotline, if used correctly, will allow anonymous reporting of events where real problems are occurring. Fraternal brotherhood is a WONDERFUL thing. There is SO MUCH good in it. However, the references to how the sororities do it … without hazing, booze, and physical acts of duress … are completely valid.</p>

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<p>jrcsmom - Sororities give bids after a week or two of parties and interviews, then the women go through pledgeship before being initiated. </p>

<p>Fraternities give bids to men after they meet them at parties and/or retreats. This process is not as structured as the sorority process but in my opinion it does allow the potential new members and the fraternity members to get a better sense of whether they will fit in. </p>

<p>Once a bid is given sorority and fraternity potential new members go through pledgeship before they are initiated. </p>

<p>My daughter has many friends who dropped out of their sororities during the pledgeship period because they realized that they didn’t like the women in their house. Perhaps if they had been able to go to parties and/or retreats and have more in depth conversations with the members it would have turned our differently for them, who knows? </p>

<p>While the process for fraternity and sorority recruitment is different in some respects it is very much the same in other ways. Ultimately, the men and women choose each other and they go through pledgeship before initiation. I don’t think that anything would change if the fraternities did the same thing that sororities do.</p>

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<p>Thank you for the explanation.</p>

<p>Not being very familliar with the process, I always thought that on bid day, girls were invited to become members of houses and didn’t realize there is a pledge period after that prior to initiation.</p>

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<p>I am the parent of a prospective UA student who will be applying next year. There is a 90% chance we will find ourselves without in-state privileges in any state due to job change, so focusing on universities where my son will receive merit aid to ensure both a solid AND affordable education is our primary focus. We are obviously scrutinizing all of the possible contenders. I have stayed in the background for the most part, however reading, since my older son considered UA two years ago. Discount my thoughts if you wish as an outsider, but please know these are things prospective parents and students pay attention to.</p>

<p>Both my husband and I were greek. In fact DH was greek in a school in the deep south in the 80’s so we are no stranger to traditions, as well as the distinct line between what is bonding, what is hazing, and what has become the politically correct idea that any act of cleaning up after a party, etc., is now thought by many to be unacceptable. These are things that today’s universities have to navigate in deciding how to guide their Greek Communities.</p>

<p>I appreciate that the letter from UA to parents was posted here. It is helpful to know they are an active participant. </p>

<p>Quite honestly, what is not helpful are comments such as, and support of, the following:</p>

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<p>You’ve got to be kidding me. I am aware that this takes place, but for a parent to quote this as a selling feature of Greek Life at UA, along side with lower costs of housing (which is legitimate) is honestly disturbing to me. If I am misreading this please point it out. I would like to know if the prevailing attitude of parents is this is no big deal, even a benefit to young men within the Greek system. I am NOT trying to be antagonistic, but it is important for me to understand what the social norms are. We are planning the deep south college sweep in late march and I’m sure we’ll enjoy a great tour, learn much about the school, but I doubt this is the type of thing that will come up.</p>

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<p>Blueiguana, Sea_tide is a student at UA, and living the experience there right now. </p>

<p>Where I understand your position that it should not be a selling feature, it is also no secret that this is one of the things that students think about. Sea_tide was just putting that reality out there for everyone to consider. </p>

<p>I love the fact that we have students that post on this page, especially Sea_tide, a frequent poster, who has been able to fill in many blanks because he is feet on the ground, so to speak!</p>

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<p>blueiguana - SEA_tide is a student and I don’t think he was promoting coolers as a selling point, I think he was being a bit sarcastic, rightly so. </p>

<p>As a parent I am realistic about what happens in college, whether or not a student is in the Greek system. I went to college in the 80’s and I did the same thing that students are doing today and I wasn’t Greek. That doesn’t mean that I condone bad behavior, in fact, I would be happy if my kids abstained from things that could get them into physical, emotional, or legal trouble. I have drilled moderation and responsibility into my kids heads ad-nauseum (according to them), and I can only hope that some of my preaching sticks. </p>

<p>For all of the students and parents who are considering UA and are getting spooked by this thread please don’t think that this is the norm. We are from the Chicago area and trust me, the Big 10 schools are no different. My son LOVES UA and is thriving. He is doing better academically than he ever did in high school, he has met some wonderful friends, he’s maturing before our very ears (can’t see him, can only hear it in his voice), and is happy. What more could a parent ask for. </p>

<p>Greek life isn’t for everyone. It doesn’t define UA and not going Greek won’t make or break the UA experience. Just know that if they choose to go Greek it is not all about getting drunk every night of the week, behaving badly, and turning into an arrogant “conformer” as some who haven’t had any experience with Greek life would have you think. </p>

<p>Truthfully I think that the new president has had a knee jerk reaction to some isolated incidents, just my opinion.</p>

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<p>vlines - Thank you very much for pointing out that SEA_tide is a student. I asked, and sincerely meant, for someone to point out if I was misreading. I was. Context is everything, including the author of what you are reading. I too enjoy when students enter into the discussions sometimes dominated by adults. They offer a fresh view that sometimes we cannot get otherwise. This puts the post in perfect context, and something I would entirely expect to hear/read from a young person in Greek life without much hesitation.</p>

<p>I sincerely hope everyone can understand my concern if this was a statement coming from a parent, and my desire to understand. Again, vlines, thank you for taking the times to kindly point this out to me.</p>

<p>edit to add: lovemykids2 - We crossed posts, thank you as well for pointing this out, as above, with this context I now understand. I too am realistic about certain aspects of college life. I currently have a second year student at a university in Virginia, so am living the accept some things, but don’t condone. It works well to keep lines of communication open.</p>

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<p>FYI, SEA_tide is not Greek. I truly understand anyone’s concerns and only wish to reiterate that my son’s Greek experience at UA has been the antithesis of the Animal House stereotype. In fact, he just participated in an interview for an internship with a large corporation. The interviewer asked him what he thought was the most important thing on his resume from a job perspective. My son mulled over the possibilities: NMF, 4.0 GPA, double major, blah, blah, blah and selected one.</p>

<p>Nope, said the interviewer, who then identified his position as head of recruiting for his fraternity as the most important item on his resume.</p>

<p>FWIW.</p>

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<p>Boys are different than girls.</p>

<p>This is my perspective as to why sororities and fraternities function differently.</p>

<p>Your mileage may vary.</p>

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<p>The press release from UA was sent to parents, students, Crimson White, and Tuscaloosa news. Below is the press release:</p>

<p>Based on calls that have come into the hazing hotline in the last week, The University of Alabama has investigated several IFC fraternities who were accused of hazing incidents. UA appreciates the full cooperation, support and assistance of the fraternities, their national organizations and their chapter advisors.</p>

<p>As a result of these investigations, UA has taken the following actions:
· UA has issued interim suspensions to one former member of Pi Kappa Alpha and two active members who engaged in hazing activities at an off-campus location. Students may not attend classes or participate in University activities until they have appeared before Judicial Affairs and a decision is made on whether they can be reinstated and return to campus. </p>

<p>· UA has revoked Pi Kappa Alpha’s Student Organization Seating for the rest of this football season. Judicial Affairs is looking into sanctions for the chapter and additional penalties for other members, and the chapter will lose social privileges for Fall semester. As our investigations move forward, additional sanctions, consequences and penalties could be levied against these individuals and the chapter. If additional details reveal that criminal offenses were committed, the individuals will be referred to appropriate law enforcement officials. </p>

<p>· After being notified by UA about hazing allegations, the local chapter advisory board for Delta Tau Delta has suspended all pledge programs and social activities indefinitely. UA has referred Delta Tau Delta to Judicial Affairs. UA has revoked Delta Tau Delta’s Student Organization Seating for the rest of this football season.</p>

<p>· UA has ended all IFC pledgeship activities as of 1 p.m. on Thursday, Oct. 18. Greek Affairs, Judicial Affairs and/or UAPD will conduct a thorough and comprehensive review of all IFC fraternities on campus. As vague and non-specific allegations continue to circulate, UA is working diligently and carefully to clearly separate rumors from actual incidents and appropriately identify the individuals involved, so that those who are responsible for hazing activities can be held accountable for their behavior and decisions.</p>

<p>· During the last week, UA has received confidential and specific allegations via the hotline involving Phi Gamma Delta, Chi Phi, Sigma Nu, Kappa Alpha Order, Kappa Sigma, Pi Kappa Phi and Zeta Beta Tau. After investigating, Greek Affairs and Judicial Affairs have cleared Phi Gamma Delta, Sigma Nu, Kappa Alpha Order, Kappa Sigma, Pi Kappa Phi and Zeta Beta Tau. </p>

<p>· UA has also received a complaint about Theta Chi, and will begin that investigation immediately.</p>

<p>· The national organizations for Chi Phi and Pi Kappa Alpha have issued cease and desist communications to the local chapters and have indicated they will also conduct their own investigations. </p>

<p>The University of Alabama takes allegations and incidents of hazing very seriously. Students who are the victims of or who become aware of hazing incidents are strongly encouraged to bring these incidents to our attention. The hazing and harassment hotline is monitored daily by members of the Student Affairs staff. Calls to the hazing hotline are confidential and are referred to Judicial Affairs and/or UAPD for investigation. To ensure a successful investigation, callers should provide specific information including names of organizations, times and locations. Self-reporting mechanisms are available to chapters who uncover acts of hazing by their members. The University will not tolerate hazing on- or off-campus, and will respond aggressively on behalf of any student who feels he/she is subject to acts of retaliation for reporting a hazing incident.</p>

<p>The safety and well-being of our students is a top priority for UA. Our ability to stop hazing depends on a partnership between the University, the members, leadership and alumni of local chapters, parents and the national organizations.</p>

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<p>This is the link to Tuscaloosa news with the article on hazing: </p>

<p>[University</a> of Alabama fraternities accused of hazing; pledge activities ended | TuscaloosaNews.com](<a href=“DSP investigating Felton home invasion robbery”>DSP investigating Felton home invasion robbery)</p>