<p>My family too has stopped rolling their eyes as well. I have learned so much and appreciate all sharing their knowledge and opinions.</p>
<p>ActingDad—I haven’t dived back into the CC archives, but I’m assuming the famous post to which you refer contains your strong statement (paraphrased) “BFA or bust.” If so, that post came at a time when my D had already notified me that she would be applying to only auditioned BFA programs, that a gap year would be the alternative/safety plan. Several of the parents who regularly participate on this forum will verify my anxieties through PMs exchanged with them. I fought her strategy briefly, but I vividly remember your post as the one that caused me to give up the fight. There was just no sense in raising the stress level higher than it already was.</p>
<p>Of course, my D has not waivered from that plan, as evidenced by our concerns regarding the Point Park BA>BFA model. So, I have nostalgic memories of that post of yours. I too am most thankful for the advice provided on threads like this one. Without it, this journey would be much more agonizing than it already is.</p>
<p>Yes, that is one. But its not the “BFA or bust” part that I would change if I had to write the post over again as I had no more ability than you did to change my daughter’s thinking. If you go way back in the archives, you will find we started with a strategy of only very tippy tops or going to one of the top non-college conservatories as a back up – Circle in the Square, Stella Adler, Atlantic, etc. It took a lot of discussion and research to get to the point of finding other audition BFAs to fill out the list. </p>
<p>What I would have changed is the implication that because people had said good things about my daughter’s ability that she would definitely have some good choices at the end. While its ended up true that she does have good choices at end, I’ve also learned that there is a great deal of subjectivity that you have absolutely no control over. My daughter has given the same monologues with what she believes to be exact same (or close enough) execution. In some cases, these monologues have resulted in big compliments and acceptances (U or Arts and NCSA for example) and other times no comments and rejection (Rutgers, CCM, Purchase and Depaul) and in 3 of the cases not even a call back. Intellectually, I understood this. Put part of me was just hey I’ve seen her and think she’s great, credible people A, B and C think she’s great, school A & B think she’s great – so C, D, E & F will think she’s great. Of course, what that does not take into account is the huge differences in what school’s are looking for and the enormous other candidates that are also talented and passionate.</p>
<p>In short, I went from yeah I expect she’ll have good choices to wow we feel really blessed she has some good choices. </p>
<p>This is an extremely difficult process and, having now seen how it has played out, I suspect the only applicants that can go into this with a high degree of confidence are the talented good looking, tall and athletic male types. There was an MT at CMU this summer that fit this criteria and he’s apparently gotten into every school he applied to. He auditioned the same day my daughter did at Ithaca and his acceptance got out to him in no time while my daughter’s application is still in limbo.</p>
<p>I think you hit the nail on the head.</p>
<p>Some descriptive terms regarding this process that come to my mind are, random, arbitrary, subjective, superficial (sometimes), unpredictable, inconsistent, and mood-dependent (referring to the auditor). ActingDad, my D would also agree with your comment regarding how different auditors judge the same monologue, presented identically, in very different ways. Many would say, oh well, that’s simply how the process works, and we can’t change it. Truthfully, those people would be right. Still, I think it is incumbent upon us parents to, at least, continue to shine a light on the “unusual” nature of the college audition process.</p>
<p>I feel a little dismay that I did not read the archives and have the benefit of all the knowledge and research to go forward with my D’s process. </p>
<p>The one comment I’d like to make on this issue of the perfect tall, athletic, male who got into every school he applied to is the issue of type casting by colleges to choose their class. Lets not overlook the fact that they are not only looking for the handsome lead man role but also looking for other necessary types to round out their cast. If they’ve already met that “type” they are looking for and extended an offer than they just may not need two or three of the same type in their “class”. There is the villain and the character actor and everything else in between that is needed in addition to the handsome tall athletic male. So I don’t want to discourage the other types that are also necessary but some of this has to do with the luck of the draw of being what the school needs and wants in type as well as showing your talent in the audition.</p>
<p>Oh, I don’t mean to suggest that there isn’t plenty of room for other males. I just think the number of tall, athletic, good looking males who are also very talented is a small group creating a nice demand versus supply for those in that group.</p>
<p>The Point Park BFA auditions happen early in the spring semester of sophomore year. I doubt highly that your whole BFA vs. BA future rides on just that one audition on that one day, because by then the students have three semesters under their belt and the faculty members know more about the each student’s strengths and weaknesses. Also, the students, by that time, have established themselves, have learned (hopefully) a ton, and are more equipped. Maybe not a perfect way to do things, but I see the logic.</p>
<p>CollegeSearchDad—thanks for your comments! I looked at your post carefully, because it says a lot in a few words. I agreed with everything you said, until the last few words. And, therein is the crux of the problem here. I’m concerned that the process isn’t logical at all, at least, by my definition of logic. I worry that the decision to allow a student to move on to the BFA program will be based too much on subjective grounds, that a student who works hard and satisfies most objective criteria, might well be prevented from pursuing the BFA track.</p>
<p>I believe your perspective is very similar to what I’m likely to hear later this week when I speak with Point Park personnel. As such, it will not be music to my ears, and my D is even more likely to disapprove. I have heard from a current student at PPU that the school is seriously considering a change to their current model. I hope to confirm that comment as well. Again, thanks for your input.</p>
<p>OddDad, I see where you are coming from as far as feeling like that three semesters will be “lost” if the student does not gain acceptance to the BFA track. I’d agree, the current model has drawbacks. However, I would ask you this: Which is more subjective, admitting a green high school senior into a BFA program based on potential, maybe some good high school/community theatre/private experience and a good 10 MINUTE audition/interview, or admitting a college sophomore that you and your colleagues have had the benefit of being around for a year and a half as they learn and work on the craft within your program? I also think they are fair in their assessment. Don’t quote me on this, and it is a good idea to ask them, but I don’t think they slot X number of seats for the BFA and that’s it. It’s not like they get to capacity then stop letting kids in the door. </p>
<p>From a personal standpoint, I feel that PPU is worth the “risk,” if you want to call it that. They are an established, well-respected program in a great arts city and they are taking it to another level.</p>
<p>Feel free to send me a PM if you have any other questions.</p>
<p>CollegeSearchDad—actually my current position is consistent with yours. I tend to believe that PPU is worth the risk. It will be my D that requires convincing. By the way, she has yet to hear from five BFA programs, so those decisions will certainly profoundly affect her decision. Take it for what it’s worth, but the limited information we have thus far from current PPU students seems to indicate that one may have only about a 50/50 chance of moving on to the BFA track. Not great odds…if you have other information, I’d love to hear it. I’ll know more very soon. I may well PM you. Thanks!</p>
<p>OddDad, I hope you will be able to share your info…</p>
<p>photomom5—you can count on it!</p>
<p>Hi all! I have just spoken with the assistant director of artistic recruitment at Point Park. I must say going into that phone call, I have been feeling a lot of pressure, self created, to discover revelations about the department, specifically what REALLY happens during the audition process to move from the BA to BFA track. Some of you know that my D is a “BFA or bust” student. I desperately hoped that I would learn that if an individual works hard and is passionate enough, he/she will almost certainly move on to the BFA program.</p>
<p>As best as I can tell, that is NOT the case. There is no quota for students approved for the BFA track. Any given year, one-third will move on; another year 50%; another year 90%. Multiple faculty members are involved in the decision, and they do utilize fairly consistent criteria each time. I wasn’t given those criteria…doubt she can specify them.</p>
<p>She did say that if a student makes it very clear to the faculty, fairly early on, that her/his goal is the BFA track, then the faculty will work hard to make that a reality. Of course, there will be no guarantee. Apparently, the actor training program at Point Park focuses very strongly on the individual student. The training is structured in a way that best suits each student, to develop in the best way possible that student’s skills and talents. When it comes to preparing the student for the real world beyond PPU, the ‘F’ in BFA is secondary to the superb actor training they provide.</p>
<p>For those who demand a BFA program from the start, that may well become a reality starting 2014, but, for now, the BA>BFA model persists. My personal perspective, even before this phone call, was each student must evaluate this program based on fit and training, and then decide. But, for those who MUST have a BFA, there will be no assurance that it will happen after that audition second semester sophomore year (by the way, you can ask for a second audition if the first one results in a no).</p>
<p>I hope this information is helpful. Feel free to make your own phone call. She assured me that they are happy to entertain any and all questions.</p>
<p>Thank you, OddDad…</p>
<p>I think all we can really ask as parents is that a program provide transparency as to how their process works. It is clear from your post that there is reason Point Park is BA to BFA rather than BFA to BA. It is not a distinction without a difference to a program that has a BFA and has juries to bump down 1-3 kids to a BA because those kids that are not holding up their end of the process.</p>
<p>One third versus ninety percent is a pretty wide variation. Do you have any sense as to how many of the kids WANT to move on. In a given year – where they have, for example, one third move on – is that partly because a good chunk of the kids would rather be in the BA program?</p>
<p>Has Eve gotten a chance to talk to some of the kids in the program? One of things that would concern me is the impact these policies have on the environment?</p>
<p>I think everyone knows that Point Park is well known for their M.T. and strong Dance program,not so much for Acting. I had a friend who auditioned there in 2011 for both M.T. and Acting was accepted to the BA Acting program when she joined the Acting accepted students page on Facebook there were only about seven members and a few dropped out leaving five.Those five were trying to connect with more actors at PP and a senior came along and said that PP got so caught up in the MT acceptances that they somehow over looked the Acting admits,so the class was very small and they were scrambling to admit more. I know that seems a little far fetched but, apparently true. So my friend decided not to attend and asked to defer PP said yes and you don’t even have to re audition which was great. Then if you follow PP MT on CC last year there was the over acceptance of MT 'S fiasco. At that point my friend just decided to pass on PP. Also the starting as a BA was a major concern to! She has a friend who goes to Emerson and is right now in that transition period of moving on,or being cut and she is freaking out,no one should have to go thru that!</p>
<p>Having been a parent through this process, I am sympathizing heavily with everyone. There are no ready answers, and so much depends on how things play out during the journey.</p>
<p>What gets hard in the decision making process is that you can’t find every option in one school - and even when you do find a nice set of broad options, so often that school doesn’t appeal to the student for one reason or another!</p>
<p>BA-BFA: Sounds great … except for the kid who really, really, really wants a BFA and won’t be happy with anything else. Or for the kid who ends up in the BA, either by not being approved or by being forced to switch in a BFA-BA situation, and has to watch others (who in their opinion might not be as deserving … ) enjoying the BFA they so wanted. So maybe best to be in a BFA-only school?</p>
<p>BFA only: Well, you just can’t 100% know that all you want is a BFA. If there’s no BA - or no way to participate in theatre at all if you aren’t a BFA student (as at my D’s school - there is an auditioned minor, but it has significant limitations and few performance opportunities) you’re looking at a transfer if you have any change of heart. </p>
<p>Then there are all of the curricular variations … BAs that are like BFAs, BFAs with more/less academic requirements, etc., etc., etc.</p>
<p>We found it helpful to have a variety of options among her final choices, but that was her idea, since she felt she might have different needs in April than she could anticipate in the fall. But in many ways her list was cluttered with schools that she might as well not have applied to. Who knew, though? </p>
<p>Try not to beat yourselves up, people. I’m going to go post about fit in a broader sense in the “Not Getting In” thread.</p>
<p>And I will say that as an adult, a parent, with more life experience than a teenager, I do think the fundamentals of the program do matter more than the name of the degree. Of course what we want most is for the faculty to provide the best possible training and the most possible support, regardless of the name. But that’s a pretty hard concept for some kids to accept - and people still worry about the “credentials” issue nonetheless.</p>
<p>Thank goodness theatre is still a wide-open field when it comes to training and education. These kids are lucky, believe it or not, compared to others who are pursuing careers with more locks on the doors.</p>
<p>Londream, your friend’s information regarding the number of acting majors accepted to the class of 2015 is not accurate. The “over-acceptance” thing you mention is off the mark too. These things I know as fact. As for PPU being strong in MT, Dance but “not so much” in acting, I’d strongly disagree. Perception from social media or half-informed opinion is one thing, actual evidence is another. As a Pittsburgher, I’ve seen lots of PPU and CMU shows over the years. PPU’s top actors hold up just fine. I saw “The Crucible” at PPU in the fall and it was one of the best productions I’ve seen in Pittsburgh, a city with a nice handful of equity companies, in years. In fact most of the PPU Conservatory plays are very well done. And, some acting majors who have been cross-cast in musicals bring their A game in a big way. The young man who played Bialistock in PPU’s producers was an acting major and he was excellent.</p>