Pre med

@rgp200

The acceptance rate for a non-Canadian international student is considerably less than 3%. Only 183 internationals are accepted to all US medical schools combined in 2016.

(See: https://www.aamc.org/download/321462/data/factstablea4.pdf)

~85% of those 183 were Canadians. So only about 24-25 non-Canadian internationals were accepted in 2016.

You also need to be aware that there is no financial aid available for international students attending US medical schools. Internationals must be able to demonstrate they can pay 100% of the cost of their medical education by placing 1-4 years worth of tuition (at some schools, it’s tuition plus living expenses) in an US escrow account before they will be allowed to matriculate. Typically this is between $80,000 and $350,000.

UWisconsin SOM does not consider international applicants for admission.

I am not trying to be negative. I just want you to be aware of the difficulties your daughter faces if she chooses to pursue this path.

Thanks for all information and hopefully we are prepared to pay the full amount. The only think is that we need an University that will prepare her to the medical field ( if she still considering ) and give her lots of options for Research, volunteering, shadowing, a school that isn’t grade deflate, with a great health advising and mcat preparation

The obstacles to an international in a premed situation does not stop at the application level, Even if the student is being accepted by a med school, you need some times to put up upto 4 years of med school COA in an escrow before matriculation, that is about $300K, all in cash, no loans. And after 4 years of med school, upon graduation, the challenge is that all “better specialties residencies and fellowship” are protected for US citizens and equivalent graduates, whats left for internationals are mostly family medicine, even that the US immigration laws are working against you.

It is much better to attend med school in the country where the student is native and has citizenship in. The physician field has the nationality restrictions unlike any other professions, each country is very protective to its own citizens, it is almost universal.

Are you international living in the US (graduating from a high school in a US state) or do you live abroad?
The choices would vary accordingly.

Personally I’d pick a private university that has its own med school (MD or DO) AND admits international students AND favors its own undergrads, such as Creighton or Case Western (check wrt international admission, since this type of things changes year to year).
Or, if she will graduate from a high school located in a US state, see if she’ll get instate status for that state and be recognized as a resident if she graduates in the state (such as is the case in New York, Florida, Texas, or California). From there things may be easier.
Note that DO schools also train doctors (generally family physicians) and aren’t as strict as MD schools with internationals.

She needs to get into an Honors College to get the extra support they get - premeds need all the support they can get, even more so if they’re international. Read the tumblr AFrenchie36 to have an example of what happens when the student is very smart, very dedicated, and interested in medicine and research.

We know that international students face two major obstacles to pursuing an MD degree at a U.S. medical school: limited number of available slots and scarcity of funding. Many medical schools do not accept any international applicants (i.e., not a U.S. citizen or permanent resident); and other schools may accept only a few.
In fact is dificult but not impossible. Can you help us find what school will prepare her better? UPitt or UW Madison or UNC Chapel hill? Any other suggestion?

What’s her IB predicted score?
Are her HL’s Chemistry and Biology +1 (Maths or English)?
She’d need to be in the top % of the university, admitted to the Honors College.
So, Pitt Honors would be good, but she’s not in Honors.
She’s unlikely to get into UNC-CH Honors if she didn’t get into Pitt Honors.
That leaves UWisconsin Madison (she’ll need to apply to Honors once she’s admitted). But we don’t have enough data points about her scores, studies, etc, to estimate whether she has a chance to survive the weedout classes at UWisconsin.
As suggested above, look into Case Western.

Thanks for helping

Thanks for helping!

IB HL Bio B+ Portuguese A+ English A Geo A+
IB ST Math A+ Chem B+

The Pitt admissions said that if she decides to attend Pitt and earns a 3.25 GPA after 1-2 semesters she is eligible to take classes that are designated as honors. The Honors College is non-membership and open to any student. The class sizes are smaller, more specified, and academically more rigorous. There are no requirements and typically students take 1-2 honors college courses per year and some don’t take any at all and just use the Honors College as a place to study or attend Friday lectures series that are offered. Any major can be a part of the Honors College-there is not something separate for pre-medical students. There are however pre-health advisors through the Honors College however any student during at any time can meet with one of these advisors as often as they would like.

She will take another SAT exam tomorrow to send to UW . Case is too expensive and the ideia is save for the medical school ( if she decides to ). She saw UIL Urbana, Ohio State, Michigan State, Georgia and UVA

In that case can she undergraduate in UPitt for example and apply for a private medical school? Or is better to undergraduate and graduate at the same University?

Do you have another State University with Honnors program to apply?

Have you run the NPC on Case? Basically, she would get money if she gets higher sat scores, in particular 1) if she’s Portuguese or Brazilian (indicate on application for ethnicity) and 2) since she’s a girl, two boosts for her.

Rather than tOSU what about Miami Ohio? Better odds of Honors.
Or UCincinnati with a major allowing her to co-op in a hospital?

What about Earlham?
If her scores are better, St Olaf (very good for premed) or Macalester.
None of these three “weeds” (IE., purposely eliminates two third of students in each premed course - of course there are bad grades and of course premeds change their minds).

For Pitt, check to make sure she can take honors classes right off the bat freshman year and benefit from the extra advising honors students get. Would she be able to join Honors housing? Or is there a “research” or “health” LLC? Would she get advanced/early registration?

Have you looked at Penn State and Temple? SUNY Geneseo?
(Do check the tumblr I mentioned earlier, and have your daughter check it).

Among those 3? Whichever is cheapest.

Really, most of time it’s almost up to individual effort. Unless one has a particular program that help exclusively pre-med student, I don’t think one is better than another school in terms of Pre-med study. It’s not even a major.

OP, please read @WayOutWestMom post #20 again. It is almost next to impossible for an international student to get into ANY US medical school, let alone choose an UG school thinking she would get into their med school. I don’t have numbers, but I would guess most students applying to med schools apply to more than 20, with hopes of acceptance to one. My kid applied to over 30. You can’t just go to Pitt and assume they can get into their med school, or any other school
at all.

[Flexibility is the Key for International Prospective Medical Students](https://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/medical-school-admissions-doctor/articles/2017-04-11/flexibility-is-key-for-international-prospective-medical-students)

[Johns Hopkins University Pre-Medical Advising: International Applicants to US Medical Schools](International Applicants to US Medical Schools | Pre-Professional Advising)

Please be aware the admission policies at specific medical schools change from year to year. A medical school that accepts internationals in 2017 may not accept international students in 2022 when your daughter will be applying.

Here is a website that has a current list of medical schools that accept international applicants: http://www2.clarku.edu/departments/prehealth/resources/international.cfm

Be aware that even though some 60 US medical school say they accept international students, there are only about a dozen that accept more 1 or 2 students year or accept international students consistently year-after-year. About half of the 60 medical school that will consider internationals accept only Canadian students. The med schools that consistently accept internationals tend to be among the competitive in the US.

BTW, neither Creighton SOM nor Case Western SOM will consider international applicants.

Thanks a lot for all !!! How about Washington University in St Louis? Grade deflate?

Major grad deflation as well as an extremely competitive environment for pre-meds.-according to scuttlebutt from former WashU students I know.

WashU is a great school but I would not recommend it for premed due to the competitive environment. Also
 if your D did not get invited to Pitt honors, chances are she would not get into WashU.

My advice is to pay close attention to the advice you have been given regarding international students and acceptance to US medical schools.

It does not really matter which college you attend. For ANY internationals got into an US med school, he has to be the top student in his class. The top 25% rules does not apply. In addition, either he is coming from a wealthy family which can afford or his native country is sponsoring his COA of a medical school. As some one already have alluded before, only top med schools in the US will accept internationals, thus the high requirements.

I have read a posting in SDN that even this international applicant had perfect gpa and scores, he had to spend 4 application cycles to get into a US medical school.

In your case, if medicine is the only interest, you might want to try the BS/MD in the FOR Profit CNU route. They accept a lot of BS/MD students.

DO schools are less stringent and students graduate as physicians too (often, family doctors, although not necessarily).
Some MD/PHD programs are also open to internationals.
Case’s SOM no longer admits international students (as someone said, something that’s true now may change by the time your daughter applies) but its CCLCM program does.
As of now, WashU, UMN, Cornell, Dartmouth, Penn, Penn State, SUNY Upstate, Yale,
 as well as some Canadian universities (UToronto
) But that’s for thousands and thousands of applicants.
In short, the student needs to attend the university where she’ll be among the top 3-5 students (not 3-5%, 3-5 students)
The best indication is to get into a university’s honors program OR into a LAC with lots of student research in the sciences where the student ranks in the top 10% in terms of stats.
@rgp2000: have you read the Tumblr I mentioned? It tells you more about the process from an international’s point of view, and especially what is expected in order to be competitive.