premed, what best bio/chem/math courses to take?

<p>I'm an incoming freshman, and I've got several questions. </p>

<p>are introductory bio courses the 200 level courses or 100 level courses? are 200 level courses taken freshman year or sophomore year? can they be taken freshman year without prerequisites of chem/math earlier?</p>

<p>what 300 bio courses are recommended on basis of grading curves, professors, teaching, amount learned? </p>

<p>for chemistry, is skipping to organic chemistry recommended when there's ap credit? i heard orgo taken with 200 level bio is a killer, so should it be taken freshman year or is it too early to tackle orgo in freshman year? which orgo should be taken, is there a grading curve? also, will taking orgo at harvard help at all? </p>

<p>is 101,2,3 chem graded more easily than 171,2 accelerated chem, in other words, is there more of a grade curve for accelerated chem or not?</p>

<p>those 300 chem courses sound quite hard, anyone care to share their experience with them? how are the professors and the labs? can they be taken while doubling up in bio? </p>

<p>what is the difference between math 210 and math 220 series? do people other than math majors/minors take 300 level math courses and do well in them? is it worth it for a premed to take 300 level math courses when it's not required? </p>

<p>If you have an answer, please reply. If you don't, please don't reply. Thanks!</p>

<p>are introductory bio courses the 200 level courses or 100 level courses? are 200 level courses taken freshman year or sophomore year? can they be taken freshman year without prerequisites of chem/math earlier?</p>

<p>– As a premed you have to take the 210 -1,2,3 sequence. </p>

<p>what 300 bio courses are recommended on basis of grading curves, professors, teaching, amount learned?</p>

<p>– I’m not to sure about this one. Most classes are curved to a B-/B. The Bio department just got a huge new facility here, so I wouldn’t worry to much about the quality of teaching, they obviously have the talent.</p>

<p>for chemistry, is skipping to organic chemistry recommended when there’s ap credit? i heard orgo taken with 200 level bio is a killer, so should it be taken freshman year or is it too early to tackle orgo in freshman year? which orgo should be taken, is there a grading curve? also, will taking orgo at harvard help at all?</p>

<p>– Do you mean skipping organic chemistry freshman year? Or just in general? If you mean skipping it freshman year, its kind of your call. Personally, I would have liked to have taken in freshman year, simply because it would have been off my plate earlier on. However, moving into organic chemistry here out of high school (from what I have heard) is a very hard transition. Most people I have talked to say that coming from a high school environment to that of the organic chemistry lectures/labs here is overwhelming for at least the first quarter.</p>

<p>If you meant to ask if you could place out of orgo with AP credit – this is not possible. </p>

<p>is 101,2,3 chem graded more easily than 171,2 accelerated chem, in other words, is there more of a grade curve for accelerated chem or not?</p>

<p>– Again, pretty much everything is curved to a B-/B. For chemistry here, that is how the majority of curving goes. It is pretty hard lines, and the professors do not typically give much leeway in terms of grades. Typically students are placed into 171 if they have prior experience with HS chemistry, and/or have a special interest in the subject. I believe the majority of pre-meds do not take this sequence.</p>

<p>those 300 chem courses sound quite hard, anyone care to share their experience with them? how are the professors and the labs? can they be taken while doubling up in bio?</p>

<p>– I will be taking 2 courses from the Chem 342 sequence next year, I have heard that they are not too bad in comparison to the rest of the chemistry courses offered. The professors are all at the top of their field, and are typically world renowned for some aspect of chemistry that they specialize in. In case you havent figured it out already, Chemistry is extremely good here. I would imagine that taking Chem 3XX and Bio 2XX/3XX would not be uncommon.</p>

<p>what is the difference between math 210 and math 220 series? do people other than math majors/minors take 300 level math courses and do well in them? is it worth it for a premed to take 300 level math courses when it’s not required?</p>

<p>– The majority of people I know just take the 220,224,230,234 sequence. I don’t know much about the difference between the 210/220 sequence, but I would assume it is a different type of math, or perhaps a differently taught math, i.e. for those who are not going to be entering a sciencey discipline. Math 3XX classes are typically only taken by math majors, perhaps some econ majors. I would stay far and away from them.</p>

<p>Try here for some info:</p>

<p>[Overview</a> of our Advising Services for Health Professions: University Academic Advising Center - Northwestern University](<a href=“Page Not Found: Health Professions Advising (HPA) - Northwestern University”>Page Not Found: Health Professions Advising (HPA) - Northwestern University)</p>

<p>This gives you a rundown of all the courses that will fulfill pre-med coursework requirements for <em>most</em> med schools: [Pre-med</a> coursework](<a href=“Required Courses: Health Professions Advising (HPA) - Northwestern University”>Required Courses: Health Professions Advising (HPA) - Northwestern University)</p>

<p>1) The 200-level bio (210-1,2,3) must be taken either after or concurrently with Orgo, which means you need Gen Chem first (can use AP credit, but some med schools don’t accept it… if you’re concerned about that you can easily find out specific schools’ policies).</p>

<p>2) I’m not a huge fan of the bio department (probably because I’m was a chem major and my department kicked a$$), but I highly recommend biochemistry 301, NOT 309. Unfortunately the best prof, Dr. Loach, is not gonna teach that anymore, but nonetheless it’s a good class and it should always be a course where your grade reflects your effort. </p>

<p>3) There is only one Orgo sequence so you have to take it. If you want/need Orgo credit to graduate you HAVE you take it at NU; I do not recommend taking it at Harvard because NU has a strict policy about not awarding credit for Orgo and it will look like you’re taking the easy way out. I’m sure Harvard Orgo is tough, but NU is known for it’s difficult Orgo sequence. As for when you should take it, Orgo+Physics is usually a much more manageable combination than Orgo+Bio or Bio+Physics. So I would recommend Orgo and physics freshman year IF you have strong study habits, handle fast-paced learning and quickly absorb obscene amounts of information. Feel free to PM me about this if you want more info.</p>

<p>4) Grading for Chem 101,2,3 and 171/172 will be as easy or as difficult as your Prof wants it to be, but neither will have a significantly “better” curve. The main difference is in the pace of the course as 171/172 has to cover three quarters of material in 2 quarters so everything is more condensed. Again, if you handle fast pace then the accelerated sequence may be preferable. (Remember you have to have AP credit to even get into 171/172). </p>

<p>5) After gen chem and orgo there is really only one other chem course that has lab, and that’s the advanced laboratory sequence (350-1,2,3). You don’t have (and don’t want) to take that unless you’re a chem major. Since there is no lab for the 342 sequence, it’s possible to combine with bio for a “lighter” load. You have a while before you even need to consider which 342 course to take, but PM me if you want advice on which would be best for you (they’re also not required for or recommended by any med schools, so it would be strictly for your own enrichment not pre-med). </p>

<p>6) If you like math and have hopes of getting into a top med school, go with Math 220,224, 230 (234 is optional as no med schools require linear algebra).</p>

<p>Be sure to check out that link for more info, and, as I said, PM me if you want.</p>

<p>Hey guys, thanks so much for answering my questions!! It’s a really big help! </p>

<p>Some things I’m still not clear about is whether BIO 210, 211, 212 can be taken freshman year. The course catalog states that Math and Chem need to be taken as prereqs to the bio courses, but if that is the case, then bio major courses can only be taken as early as sophomore year? That leaves math/chem/phys to be taken freshman year. I was actually hoping to start bio 200 freshman year and take organic sophomore year</p>

<p>I got a 5 on my AP Chem, which means I can start orgo as early as freshman year. But it confused me because in order to major in bio or chem, you need to take Chem 100 series, as stated by the major requirement worksheets. The premed requirement is also 1 year Gen Chem, but if I don’t take Chem 100 series, I can take Chem 300 to fulfill that premed req, is that true? </p>

<p>A question non science related, what english courses are recommended? Some med schools require 1 year in Expository writing, and I guess that freshman seminars and writing courses would fulfill that?</p>

<p>What freshman seminars are recommended? I’m kind of confused about Freshman seminars since the available options weren’t mentioned in the course catalog. Is there a comprehensive list of freshman seminars floating around? </p>

<p>Thanks again for the feedback, really appreciate it.</p>

<p>Hi, so I went on Ctech and reviewed all the classes that I was interested in. </p>

<p>Question: Dr. Loach wasn’t going to teach Bio 301 anymore? Who is replacing him? </p>

<p>I am leaning towards a Chem major since Northwestern is better known for its chemistry department than its biology department. But I still am taking biology courses (300), since I want to pursue research in that area. However, there are many requirements for Chem majors. They have to take 11 200 and 300 level courses. Also I don’t know how useful the analytical chemistry will be for after college. </p>

<p>I feel like I should have applied for ISP since they have courses that cover material in all sciences and way more diverse. </p>

<p>Question: For orgo, who is the best professor? And which series is recommended (210 or 212)? Trzupek seems to be the best, but he grades hard? And his tests are hard to understand? Other teachers have more clear straightforward tests even though they are not as good as lecturing.</p>

<p>Also, who teaches Bio 303 molecular neurobiology, Bio 318 assembly of neural circuits, Bio 321 Physical Biochemistry, BIO 323 Bioinformatics, Bio 326 Neurobiology of learning and memory, Bio 361 Protein structure and function and Bio 390 molecular biology and Bio 395 molecular genetics? Ctech is not updated with that information.</p>

<p>CTECs can only tell you who has taught in the past, and what people thought of them. In pretty much every department, and for almost every class, the instructor changes every quarter. I only see Bio 301 on Aqua Vite, which is now over 2 years old (last updated Spring 2008, when they moved CTEC to CAESAR).</p>

<p>The Bio department page will have the 2010-11 teaching schedule, if and only if it has been finalized. In all likelihood, to be honest, a lot of your major courses will be determined not by CTECs but by the harsh reality of scheduling; e.g. a class you wanted to take isn’t actually offered, class-with-awesome-prof conflicts with class-offered-only-Autumn-at-one-time, etc. Pick your program based on what you care about, not the department’s rankings and not the CTECs.</p>

<p>ProTip: Don’t take acelerated Chem. If you do really well in Chem, you’ll wan’t more classes of doing really well to boost your GPA. If you do really badly, well, non-accelerated is easier, so you’re more likely to do well, plus there will be more dumbies bringing the curve up.</p>

<p>to arbiter213 - I don’t think I will take general chem freshman year. I will take orgo instead. If I take gen chem, I will take the nonaccelerated track. </p>

<p>to sirstevah
I do want to take what I care about, but I also want to do well since I need a high GPA (pre med). Which is why I’m navigating CTECs, since I find out through high school experience that there are good teachers and bad ones, and I’d rather stick with the good ones who will make me like courses I already like even more. I had to deal a lot with cut courses and bad scheduling in high school, which unfortunately had a negative influence on my mentality, which is why I’m planning right now to alleviate my college experience with that. I’m also paying some amount for college, so I want the best experience (with professors and courses). </p>

<p>So I’d rather take what I want to take with good teachers to create the best experience (which is what most people aim for). </p>

<p>I might double major in chemistry and biology, since I think I’ll get the most out of that, although I’m afraid that taking too many courses will be too much of a burden on me. I might major in bio and minor in chem, if that’s the case.</p>

<p>I also found the fall 2010 schedule, although I don’t remember which site I got it from (I have to go back and check). It has listing of courses, teachers, and times.</p>

<p>would it be too much if i took physics, orgo, and bio and math freshman year? i was hoping to get started on bio coursework freshman year which i can do since i’m taking orgo freshman year. but earlier it was said that bio and orgo aren’t compatible in terms of studying… i think i can do it, but is it too much of an overload with physics and math? i might take algebra physics and calculus, though i was leaning towards calculus physics since it’s more applicable. i think i’ll also be taking introductory language, but that’s it freshman year…</p>

<p>i’m slightly confused regarding bio 210-1. i was never a fan of evolution (i mean i can do it, just not a fan), so i want to delay taking that till another year. on the undergrad course catalog, it says that bio 210-2 only requires chem 210 as a prereq, not bio 210-1, so it seems i can do that. but then on caesar course descriptions, it says bio 210-2 requires bio 210-1 as prereq? which is right?</p>

<p>i’m going to major in bio. not sure about whether major/minor in chem yet.</p>

<p>The only recommendation I have based on what DD did last year is to avoid the Harvard/summer option. She didn’t want bio and orgo during her soph year and did the former over summer. It was just too rushed and concentrated - if you were under the weather for a couple of days, you were behind by a lot.</p>

<p>meandshoe, I suggest you invest in some cyanide if you intend to actually enroll in that schedule; it would be cheaper and less painful.</p>

<p>I know the ISP program is pretty intense - why didn’t you apply to ISP.</p>

<p>[Integrated</a> Science Program About Us](<a href=“http://www.isp.northwestern.edu/about/index.html]Integrated”>About the Department: Integrated Science Program - Northwestern University) </p>

<p>[Integrated</a> Science Program Current Students Schedules](<a href=“http://www.isp.northwestern.edu/currentstudents/schedules.html]Integrated”>http://www.isp.northwestern.edu/currentstudents/schedules.html)</p>

<p>Is it possible to place into orgo with only a 4 in AP chem if I do well on the placement exam? It seems like orgo and bio together should be avoided at all costs, but if I take general chem freshman year, then I have to take orgo and bio together sophomore year, right? Oh, and summer school… not an option for me.</p>

<p>I have a question about curves regarding premed courses. I really don’t understand how NU curves. Can anyone explain curves in premed courses, especially Chem 171? Thank you!</p>