<p>NJSue–that is simply NOT TRUE. I can give you example after example after example of people that went to “unranked” UG’s and are now PhD’s at very prestigious colleges having gotten into funded programs at equally prestigious PhD programs (cough, cough IVY SCHOOLS). We know several kids right now that are in prestigious grad schools, not paying a dime either, having graduated from unranked schools. The only place your sinerio happens is with CC families living on the east coast.</p>
<p>To me, the real issue of this thread is not prestige vs. cost. It’s about being strategic vs. throwing pieces of spaghetti on the wall to see if they stick. The OP’s child is a 2014 student. There is plenty of time to research reasonable options in the vicinity and further afield, from reaches to matches to safeties. Mention of University of Cumberlands really has me scratching my head. It may be an adequate school, but there are so many other options that are likely to be better academic fits for this young man. If there are other fit reasons for looking at this school, fine. But if it’s just a “this will do, hypothetically” situation, the OP should know that a student of his or her son’s calibre doesn’t need to pick a school with a 26 percent graduation rate!</p>
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<p>Just to be clear …</p>
<p>Cumberlands is a NAIA school.
Kenyon is not. It is part of the NCAA.</p>
<p>Also, in case it matters to you, Cumberlands is a Baptist school and Kenyon is Episcopal.</p>
<p>(Neither of which fits into … uh … our profile.)</p>
<p>This has been an interesting and educational discussion. Obviously, I bring a certain background and experiences that influence my opinion. I love hearing from others that bring a different perspective. I want to thank everyone that took the time to give their input and in many cases supplied links with additional info.</p>
<p>I think rather than saying Prestige v. Cost I should have come up with a different title. It is definitely a complex question with so many variables. Is school x at y dollars a better deal than school z at y + $10,000? I am not sure that a better deal is exactly what I mean.</p>
<p>I plan to go back to start and would love input. Before I lay out the criteria can anyone give me a concise answer on how do you find out how much a college will actually cost? Do I call the financial office? Do you find out after you apply? I realize that with my son just being in his junior year that we are a little early but that has to be better than being late.</p>
<p>-4.0/31 ACT (will take 2 more times)
-plenty of EC’s (best would be junior class president)
-wants to run cross country and track 5K=16.45, 1600=4.45 (one more season of CC and two more of track)
-running times mean d3 or NAIA
-BIG ONE! stay within 3 hours/200 miles of Cincinnati
-would like some excitement around football and basketball teams
-would embrace a religious affiliated institution
-academic strength and love would be English (ACT 35 English/34 Reading)
-career interests? major in English, teaching high school, professor, coaching
-not money motivated; I would bet that he will stay in southwestern Ohio as an adult
-personal stuff: he is very involved with church and open about his Christianity; we live in a blue collar town that qualifies as an urban district; loves to have a good time but anti alcohol and drugs</p>
<p>Thanks so much for your time, energy, and experience.</p>
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<p>Google for [college name] plus “net price calculator” to find a calculator for that school on the College Board site. Here for example is an entry point for Kenyon:
<a href=“Net Price Calculator”>Net Price Calculator;
<p>Another, quick-and-dirty approach is to use the following Quick EFC Calculator:
[FinAid</a> | Calculators | Quick EFC Calculator Results](<a href=“http://www.finaid.org/calculators/scripts/quickefc.cgi]FinAid”>http://www.finaid.org/calculators/scripts/quickefc.cgi)</p>
<p>Every college has a Net Price Caluclator (NPC). Go to the Federal Financial Aid site and run their FAFSA Forecaster to get your expected family contribution–don’t just assume-then run the NPC. I suggest you do a search on collegeboards using your criteria. You can start with religious schools within your geographic area. Size is a BIG DEAL. How big does he want to go? I see no reason for him to take the ACT again unless there is some bump in merit money for a 32 or better. His GPA and ACT will give him max merit at most every school in the country.</p>
<p>I don’t know exactly where you live in OH so this might change a bit but within 200 miles of downtown Cincinnati I found 13 Roman Catholic schools with cross country programs (not sure of your religious affiliation either). I put in 300 miles and got 30 results–one being St. Josephs’ in Indiana which has amazing merit aid available so check out that school for sure. With stats like his and his goal to be in education I would find schools where he comes in at the top of the recruiting pool (stats in the top 25%) to maximize his merit opportunities and keep your out of pocket costs to a minimum. With the merit award and your ability to pay $1000/month, he would get out of St. Joseph’s with no debt. That is just one example of many. Our kids have similar stats and our target was no UG debt. Their awards (just merit) so far has them between $9000-15,000 for our cost so far. They will be invited to compete for other merit awards as well and could result in a net cost to us of zero.</p>
<p>Here is the complete list of 4 year colleges within 200 miles of Cincinnati that have varsity XC (there are 43) -
[College</a> Navigator - Search Results](<a href=“College Navigator - Search Results”>College Navigator - Search Results)</p>
<p>Note that with this tool you can select a religious affiliation using “More Search Options”.</p>
<p>Another good tool is College Results (Advanced Search) - it lets you specify athletic divisions as part of your search, and minimum graduation rates etc.
[College</a> Results Online](<a href=“http://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/search2a.aspx]College”>http://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/search2a.aspx)</p>
<p>BeanTownGirl–I did not search by college level because that site is not very good for searching for NAIA sports. It lists them as “intercollegiate” but then also lists all NCAA sports as “intercollegiate” as well. I found searching on the NAIA website itself a better tool for that. Actually on the BeRecruited site they have a great search engine as well for all levels of sports.</p>
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<p>No doubt that a student can find 11 (or more) English courses to take. But if the student wants to include a specific English course, then s/he needs to plan carefully in order to take it during when it is available to him/her, because it may not be available again until after s/he graduates.</p>
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<p>SteveMA, college English is my particular field and I hire in it. I find it very unlikely that you know of scads of English professors with Ivy PhDs who went to unranked undergraduate programs in the humanities. Also, please be aware that when I say “unranked,” I am referring to programs, not schools. Relatively obscure colleges can have very good English departments.</p>
<p>PS I suppose I should also specify that I am talking about tenure-track full-time jobs with benefits, not adjunct positions.</p>
<p>NJSue–scads, no, several yes. Again, in YOUR college, that is the way it is. I guess it depends on how you define “ranked” too. Every college is “ranked” some are just a lot lower down the list. On CC, ranked typically means top 20 programs, maybe. The people I know that are in humanities type positions, not all of them are “English” but most are humanities fields are full-time tenured PhD’s now–since we are all getting old :D. Two of them are at Harvard, two are at Holy Cross, one is at UVA, one is at MIT, I know a couple math profs too but they don’t count in the “humanities” but still went to unranked state directional colleges for UG. As I’ve said many times on this board, those rankings only mean something to people that live on the east coast that think they mean something…</p>
<p>Here’s a link to a blog that discusses something similar: [Surprise:</a> Where Harvard Law Students Attended College | The College Solution](<a href=“http://www.thecollegesolution.com/surprise-where-harvard-law-students-got-their-undergrad-degrees/]Surprise:”>Surprise: Where Harvard Law Students Attended College)</p>
<p>Law school is not analogous to PhD programs in the humanities. You have to pay to go to professional school. No one should pay for a PhD in English, and the better programs won’t ask you to. Getting admission to a funded PhD slot in an English program that manages to get its graduates hired somewhere is easier when you have an undergraduate degree from a place that graduate admissions committees respect. I’m sorry if this bothers people, but there is it. With hiring prospects in academe so dim, and the prospect of placement in a full-time tenured position so dicey, no one should pay for a PhD in English unless you have money to burn.</p>
<p>If you go to an undergraduate college where the professors in a given department do little scholarship or publishing, where the curricular offerings are weak, and where your writing samples and recommendations will carry no weight because they are not competitive with students from better schools, you are not going to be a competitive candidate for funded PhD slots. They are going to go to the kids from schools with better departments. This is not an East Coast bias. I am from Minnesota. There are many fine Midwestern LACs with good English departments besides Kenyon. I believe other posters have done a great job of suggesting them.</p>
<p>Here are profiles of the English department faculty at Harvard:
[Faculty</a> | FAS English](<a href=“http://english.fas.harvard.edu/people/faculty]Faculty”>http://english.fas.harvard.edu/people/faculty)</p>
<p>Undergraduate schools represented include Illinois, Indiana State, Michigan State, the University of Dallas, Whittier College, Pittsburgh, Texas A&M, Chatham College, Emmanuel College (Boston), and several non-US institutions (in addition to many very selective research universities and LACs).</p>
<p>tk,</p>
<p>I have to agree with NJSue. </p>
<p>There is a big difference between a tenure/tenure-track faculty and a visiting/adjunct faculty. Visiting lecturers, lecturers, departmental associates, college fellows, are not tenure/tenure-track faculty. </p>
<p>Also, I suggest that the best indication of where schools are going now is to look at current tenure-track assistant and tenured junior associate faculty (i.e., the young faculty in the department). Sometimes departments still have senior faculty that where tenured according to a different regime that is not in place anymore.</p>
<p>One more thing: English is a little bit different in the Humanities realm because, in rare situations, one can get a tenure/tenure-track position based on non-academic writing (books, poetry, journalistic pieces, etc.), so there is more possibility for outliers who did not follow the “traditional path” to enter the ivy towers of academia. You may also want to account for that.</p>
<p>We have a family friend who graduated from Harvard three years ago, Phi Beta Kappa with a degree in English. I know her quite well, and she is articulate and charming (no people skill issues). And obviously very bright! She has had a heck of a time getting into a good PhD English program… ended up doing a Master’s program at U of Chicago, and is teaching this year while she does another round of PhD applications. I personally would not go too far down the quality ladder… okay to go down to LACs in the top 75, for example, but I would be very hesitant to go below that. The OP’s son should be able to get some very good merit aid in that range with his stats, though.</p>
<p>OP, based on the discussions, you are only focusing on two resources of funding - merit aid and sport schlorship. What about need based Aid? </p>
<p>Your 200mile circle limits all the top schools for need based FA. Are you saying your son will not attend Harvard or Stanford even the tuition is covered by need based FA?</p>
<p>BTW, on CC, people mostly only associate about 10 schools with prestige.</p>
<p>[Faculty</a> Members — ISU English Department](<a href=“http://engl.iastate.edu/faculty/faculty.html#distinguished]Faculty”>http://engl.iastate.edu/faculty/faculty.html#distinguished) Iowa State</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.kenyon.edu/x41231.xml--Kenyon--more[/url]”>http://www.kenyon.edu/x41231.xml--Kenyon--more</a> applicable then Harvard I would say</p>
<p><a href=“Creative Writing Degree & Literary Studies Major • English at Beloit College”>Creative Writing Degree & Literary Studies Major • English at Beloit College;
<p>Just picked 3 schools that came to mind…</p>
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<p>OP, I’ll let you decide on the definition of “people” in that quote. ;)</p>
<p>I do agree that the distance limit of 200 miles is, well, limiting. Especially when combined with a desire to continue with x-country and a desire to keep costs as low as possible. If you want the best shot at merit and/or need-based aid, being open to going further away is a wise strategy. </p>
<p>My two cents is to have your son see a variety of schools both near and far, more and less academically selective, with the only condition being that the schools may be affordable via merit and/or FA. Among your son’s big factors (close to home, x-country, affordable, good academics, some rah-rah), it’s unlikely that he’s going to find a perfect fit for all of them. Best if he sees more schools so that he can decide which of those factors are truly the most important for him.</p>