PROS/CONS of a Fraternity

<p>My book group hasn't really had any bonding rituals, I have "forgot" to finish several books that I just couldn't get interested in, and they let me join them for wine/coffee anyway.
The shared ordeal of birthing is probably closer, while I didn't labor alongside anyone, I did name my daughter after my recovery room nurse. But memories are tricky, and even though I was in hard labor for three days, and I know this, I don't remember the intensity, and only remember that at the end I had a baby. ( if our memories didn't protect us, I doubt any of us would have more than one!)</p>

<p>There is nothing wrong with a purely social and sports based group. I feel no need to defend frats based on public works and such. The fact that some renegade units--mostly at lower tier schools--have done bad things is not a reason to malign all the 1000's of chapters in the country. We lived together 24/7, studied together ( I'd bet 75% of us went to grad school) and played together. On draft lottery night some of us cried together. I don't think you get that in a book or chess club. Many years later I have a pretty good idea what everyone in my class is up to. You don't get that in many groups.</p>

<p>sorry emerald, i don't do stupid things because people aren't telling me not to do them. i do what i want to do, when i want to. if someone doesn't like it, that's their problem. Man i sound like a brat :) seriously though, i consider myself a pretty independent person/woman. if i choose to do something stupid then i should face the repercussions for that act. (luckily i haven't done anything stupid yet :))</p>

<p>right now i'm choosing what to do for my next three weeks off from school :) i'm actually thinking about heading back out to school next week for a few days.. i want to hang out with a friend before he leaves for the army, and visit some people, go to the bar with some friends, and i think i'll stop by work and work a few hours. at least that will pay for my gas to get out there and back :) i'm also thinking about taking my 16y/o sister and 17y/o cousin to NYC for a couple of days.. I had planned to go around my 22nd birthday, i guess i'll see if they have enough cash by then :)</p>

<p>Well there aren't any particular "bonding rituals" in sororities that I recall. I was pledge leader when I was a senior and we never did anything cruel or unusual. There were exercises we did to get to know each other. Pledges don't live in the house their first year and are scattered all over campus so it helped them to get to know us and each other quicker.</p>

<p>Liz - I am trying to be open minded and research this issue -- but then I read threads on the greekchat site written by current sorority members about girls being rejected because they are too fat, have strange hair do's, bushy eyebrows, are too old, etc. THere are stories about women being judged too "manly" to be accepted into the sorority (God forbid someone who is gay was interested in joining). There is also discussion of potential sorority members being kept IN the bid process because they are "eye candy" Then there are the stories of girls crying because they do not get into their first choice house. </p>

<p>I understand that there are positives to being in a sorority --- but only if you get into one, I suppose. However, if you don't conform to the group's standards of physical beauty or their standards of personality and behavior, you are probably out of luck. As a female, it saddens me to hear that women are still judging other women on things like physical beauty and clothing. Again, I KNOW that not ALL sororities are like this - it sounds like your sorority was not - but the threads on greekchat convince me that many of them are still out there. So, I guess the "bonding ritual" in sororities to some extent involves finding people that are "like you" and excluding those who are not.</p>

<p>Most of us choose to socialize with people that are pretty much like ourselves. I doubt you belong to a redneck bowling team or something similar.</p>

<p>Here's a "bonding ritual" in a Dartmouth sorority and fraternity that is under investigation by Hanover police for potential criminal charges.</p>

<p>It involves sorority pledges being coerced into "interpretive dances" (the sorority's term) or "lap dances" (others' term).</p>

<p><a href="http://www.thedartmouth.com/article.php?aid=2004111001010&sheadline=&sauthor=&stext=fraternity%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.thedartmouth.com/article.php?aid=2004111001010&sheadline=&sauthor=&stext=fraternity&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I think these stories call into question that impropriety is limited to "third-tier" colleges. Or, maybe fraternity parents would have a different view of their daughters as college lap dancers than I do.</p>

<p>Actually Barrons, I have an extremely diverse group of friends - some are older than me, some much younger, some are of different races, some of different religions and beliefs, some with very different political views and lifestyles, some are gay, some were born in different countries, some are rich, some are poor,etc. And, I can honestly say that I also have a few close friends who would probably fit the definition of "redneck" quite well. I love interacting and socializing with people who are NOT "pretty much like myself."</p>

<p>I'm proud of the fact that my children also have a very diverse group of friends who defy characterization as one particular "type". One of the most important things my daughter wants in a college is diversity -- of race, income level, religion, sexual orientation, thought.</p>

<p>Enough about this "diversity." We all know that everyone is prejudiced and we all know that ALL people prefer to be around those like them. That's why you don't see "whiteboys" in Mexican gangs and blacks at Asian fraternities. Those of you who think, "wow, diversity, I will love this" will grow tired of it pretty soon once you are pitted with it face on.</p>

<p>My son goes to a university where there are few fraternities to join. DD is considering schools in the south and all have sororities. If she decides to go through rush, and pledge, that will be her decision. I hope we have raised her to make informed decisions about what she does when she leaves home. Her decision will be....well...her decision. We will pay her college bills as we have her brother's. The only thing we won't pay is her sorority costs. That would be her responsiblity should she choose to join.</p>

<p>ID, it's interesting how you cull negatives related to greek life and ascribe that behavior to all greeks but ignore questionable behavior in non-greek settings. A few months ago there was a stir about nude parties being held at the residential colleges at Yale. Using your logic then, nude parties are the norm for non-greek environments.</p>

<p>I would say that we all have preconceptions but I wouldn't say that we all are prejudiced or that preconceptions don't change over time.
One way to think more creatively, is to expose ourselves to different environments and people a little outside our comfort zone.
While our city is hardly detroit or DC it is more diverse than the suburbs were when we moved here. While we did move to a neighborhood with which my husband was familiar, we chose to enroll our daughter in an innercity high school, and we love it.
In our area it is getting harder to pigeonhole people into "asian" or "hispanic" many if not most are actually a product of diversity in their own families, and social groups at the high school illustrate the blurring of "ethnic" boundaries.</p>

<p>Well Carolyn, kumbyah to you. Most of my friends are college-educated, middle-aged professionals and a little paunchy. Some are red some are blue but we all work hard and pray our home value goes up faster than the mortgage balance.</p>

<p>A thought on the "exclusivity" of frats/sororities: </p>

<p>I don't have first hand knowledge of sororities, but if my son's frat is any indication, they go through a lot of effort to attract new members. After all, it is in their best interest to have a large and thriving organization. Does that mean that on occasion that they might "black-ball" a prospective pledge? Yes, but it is rare and it must be done via well documented rules. </p>

<p>After freshman year, all college kids get to select their roommates, why should frats or sororities be any different? If some of the girls from the dorm floor decide to rent an apartment off campus and they don't invite someone that they view as being incompatible, are they guilty of being exclusionary?</p>

<p>Barrons, I have my share of those type of friends too. </p>

<p>And, I even have a few former fraternity and sorority members as friends. :)</p>

<p>I don't think all colleges allow students to select roommates. My niece at Colgate had roommates not of her choosing for the first three years- and it was such a disasterous matchup that her parents intervened and the school found her a single room where she is able to stay for senior year.
My daughter has had a single for three years at Reed although she didn't request one.
Dorm assignments are by lottery although you may make "requests" and theme dorms are popular in an effort to attract like minded souls.
a new dorm for next year may be modeled on the Drones club for example!

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Have you been pronounced an 'unemployable fop' by your schoolmasters of days past? Are you shocked and dismayed by the notable decline in tweed-wearing amongst todays youth? Have you ever wondered what it would be like to play cricket using only stale dinner rolls and a dustpan? Come take part in the Anarcho-Dandyist Revolution, and join The Drones Club! The Drones Club (colloquially 'Chap Dorm') is dedicated to the revival and cultivation of the dandy. Inspired in part by the literary genius of Mess'r. P.G. Wodehouse, we of The Drones Club seek to encourage the expression and development of such fine elements of character as impeccable style, astounding chivalry, and a wit as razor-sharp as the creases in one's trousers.

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<p>I can't tell from this board whether frats have changed in the past 25 years or not..sounds like alot of the same to me...when we used to visit the frats at Dartmouth, Brown and U. Mass we were happy to get the heck OUT......they were Animal House all the way.....and the women were treated like chattel.......the eating clubs at Princeton were a little more civilised....but not much!</p>

<p>I would say the pleding is def. artificial, but it works to get you closer to your pledge class. Yes, you do not need to join a fraternity to become closer to friends, but this is one way to do so if you want to.</p>

<p>at my school you can choose your roommates, as where as your place to live after freshman year. choosing a place to live goes by credits. ie, seniors have first dibs... but like i said, you can choose to live with whomever (of the same sex) you choose.</p>

<p>Well Carolyn if the truth be told I probably got into my sorority because I was a legacy. My mom in her stunted college career joined a sorority. I was rejected from the sorority I really wanted to be in and my roommate got in. I absolutely hated rush. I hate small talk and am quite reserved in new situations. Rush is almost as bad as the elite college application process. It really is unkind to judge an individual in such a short period of time and just like the college app process, someone that presents well in a short period of time probably does the best. I don't ever recall anyone talking about weight or looks. If someone made comments about looks it was usually remarking on positive attributes. Everyone responds well to good looking people - it's been well documented. Each person talks to probably 8 people at a party and then they are discussed but it really was more to evaluate their fit with the sorority, what can they bring to the group, do they have a talent we can use, do they seem like a nice person, are they interested in us. I'm sure we said critical things but not catty things. Don't get me wrong. There were gossipy, hard drinking, bubble headed girls in my sorority and there were sororities with a high concentration of them. My cousin was in one and she partied so hard she ended up flunking out. I understand full well your images of sorority girls. I cringe when I see the kind of stuff you're talking about. It is out there but it is not all there is, nor do I think my experience is unusual. </p>

<p>If I were to change one thing about sororities it would be rush. It is quite a superficial process. It is also why I recommend waiting a year. I became a rush counselor my senior year to counsel all those girls that were rejected. I was much more equipped to handle that side of rush than the parties full of small talk. Yuk!</p>