<p>Thedad, Freudian slip?</p>
<p>Rileydog </p>
<p>Yes, there has been some trouble with the WM frats recently. Last year, I believe (or a little longer ago), SigEp (Sigma Phi Epsilon) was kicked off campus after a couch (or chair?) was thrown off their balcony at a party that they were having. The couch (or chair?) hit someone under the balcony. The injured party was rushed to the hospital. In fairness to SigEp, the person[s] who threw the couch/chair were not members of the frat, they were just attending the party, and SigEp paid for the medical coverage, I'm told.</p>
<p>This year, SAE (Sigma Alpha Epsilon) got its charter revoked (which is a heavier punishment than SigEp) after a student was found to have a .38 BAC, likely related to initiation.</p>
<p>About 30% of the student body is involved in greek life, the largest frat is APO (Alpha Phi Omega) which is a coed service frat, which has over 200 members.</p>
<p>Some of the kids in my dorm rushed frats this fall, and honestly, I believe all the initiations involved drinking (I know my parents don't think I should drink until I'm 21, maybe some of you subscribe to the "if you kill people in wars, you can drink" philosophy, I don't know). That said, I know that Delta Phi has a non alcoholic initiation.</p>
<p>The delis which turn into bars at night are not "18 to party, 21 to drink." They're "21 to get in." (I'm pretty sure) The alcohol policy at the College is very strict with parties at the frats, if there's alcohol it has to be registered, and there has to be a list, so you can't randomly go into alcoholic parties, but you can get on the lists if you know people.</p>
<p>Having said all this, I'm against greek life really. Their parties are not really my thing, and I don't think I need them to make good friends. I understand it's a personal decision though, and many people like the feeling of having another "family". I've never been one to drink (though I do personally think you should be allowed to at 18), so I don't really go where all the drinking is. They are good for sporting events though. More loud slightly (or not so slightly) drunk people = worse for the other team, lol.</p>
<p>One exception (maybe there are others): </p>
<p>A frat was the last place I thought our unsocial, health-Nazi (nondrinking) MIT son would be interested in. Didn't even suggest it to him, as I'm anti-frat from my own college experience. But he joined last year as a freshman, and is happy with his choice. </p>
<p>The frats at MIT seem to be an odd mix of party types and quiet types. Plenty of others like my son who won't be pressured into functions he's not keen on. He has made good friends there, and I think he's happy to be in a house environment. He didn't seem to make many friends last year in his sprawling dorm.</p>
<p>Hmm...</p>
<p>Well I welcome all this, but this is information I had received before even getting to college. I've spent a semester there (an amount many of you would consider too short) and I've seen whats going on. By the way, I attend Tulane. I know I want to pledge Sigma Alpha Mu (Sammy). Is there alcohol? Yes, there is. But I'm a 4.0 student that had been drinking since he was 13 (Not something to be proud of I'm sure, but I'm from a different culture and this is what we do). I just need to know the good and bad sides to a fraternity when one excludes all pledging and joining rituals and events. I feel that I am being unclear here and I appologize if I am, but I plead that your replies exclude all bashing of fraternities due to recent deaths in Colorado and other incidents at other universities. Thanks!</p>
<p>How can we exclude drinking when that is the sole purpose of fraternities? Who is kidding who? </p>
<p>The fraternity you want to join has a keg going 7 nights a week, doesn't it?</p>
<p>crackah, please clarify "drinking since ...13" and "I'm from a different culture and this is what we do"...wondering what culture? Is it a religious culture that allows children occasional drinking for religious services? or something else?</p>
<p>Sorry Greeks, but you are nothing but a joke and a bad one at that. You see, real life is not a frat. You don't invite hordes of drunk girls to your parties, get them drunk, and the get "laid." Sucess is individual and being in a frat during college makes you a part of a herd. BY surrendering to this herd, you lose your ability to make independent and often the right decisions. With that come choices which do not optimize success, but simply put you in compliance with your "brothers." And, by the way, "brothers?" We are not at a church, guys so shut up and be mature enough to prove yourself without having to be a part of a mindless herd.</p>
<p>Thanks Searchingavalon!</p>
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<blockquote> <p>a joke </p> </blockquote>
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<p>Judging by how defensive about frats the college tour guides were on our college tours, I would say that "joke" may be the majority opinion of elite college applicants these days. The only thing they were more defensive about was the use of TAs.</p>
<p>The prevailing sentiment about the two remaining frats at my daughters' school is that they are jokes. One of them used the large stairway of my daughters' dorm for some sort of initiation and the JAs in the dorm proceded to rat them out to the Dean's office for hazing. </p>
<p>At least they demonstrate some humor: another initiation required a freshman pledge to dress up in a cow costume, walk around the dining hall with tray of milk, and ask students if they want milk.</p>
<p>I think the frats at the school are hanging on by a thread. The way the school is governed, all it would take is for one eager-beaver student to spend a semester rallying anti-frat sentiment and force a vote. The frats would be gone as soon as the votes were tallied. Unlike the last time a student (a freshman named Michael Dukakis) forced a campus vote to abolish the frats in the early 1950s.</p>
<p>Hey, everyone! I go to a school where the Greek scene is a pretty huge part of the social life. While I understand where all of you guys are coming from, I think some of your genralizations are a little unfair. I didn't drink in high school until my senior year (and even then, very, very little) and was at first turned off by the presence of the Greek scene at the school I ended up attending. One term at college has completely changed my opinion. I expected frats would give the campus a cliquey feel, but the frats are very laid back, and have a come one, come all kind of attitude for their parties. Because we're not allowed to rush until sophomore year, people already have an established friend group unrelated to their Greek organization, so they don't really narrow their group of friends. They also are pretty much guaranteed to get their first or second choice of house, and while there are some stereotypes about the houses, there isn't really that much tension between them. If one frat is slow a particular night, the brothers will close up and go party at another frat. Because our campus is pretty isolated, I feel that the Greek scene unites the campus more than divides it. People tend to flock to whatever frats have DJs, bands, or fun themed dance parties on a particular night, and it's not a huge school, so you're guaranteed to run into a lot of friends. And frats allow studying and partying to be seperated, which IMO, is a good system. :) </p>
<p>Of course, not every frat at my school is consistently fun and laid back, because obviously, not all houses are alike. There's also a spectrum of how hard a house parties. One house is infamous for extreme partying every night of the week and is pretty much the only place on campus with a hard drug scene. And then there's a co-ed house that is pretty much non-alcoholic, and throws a huge "Milque and Cookies" bash fall term which is actually pretty popular. (Thousands and thousands of different kinds of homemade cookies + starving/cheap college students looking for free food = big party). Most houses fall somewhere in the middle of the spectrum, and I really think everyone finds a scene that they enjoy. </p>
<p>Someone mentioned that the Greek life varies from campus to campus as much as the houses themselves vary--I completely agree. I've had an incredibly positive experience with the Greek system at my school, but if it were cliquey and exclusive as some are, I'm sure I would not. It really depends, and I don't think it's fair to make blanket generalizations.</p>
<p>I also don't think it's fair to condemn the behavior of all fraternities based on a few tragic incidents. Clearly there are students who drink very irresponsibly, and there are fraternity members that encourage or commit contemptible acts. But in my experience there are infinitely more students and Greek members who do party responsibly. It's unjust to punish the entire Greek system for the transgressions of a few.</p>
<p>fraternities provide little room for growth, since you're around the same people all the time. it's up to you whether you want to grow as a person or not. hmmm</p>
<p>Over30, "Freudian slip?" Serendipitous typo.</p>
<p>I think most peple here have an outdated idea of what fraternities are. And a very closed mind about them. Both my sons joined a fraternity at the University of Michigan. I was totally against the idea at the begining for all the reasons stated above. My recollections of fraternities were from the 70's when I was in college and "Animal House."</p>
<p>Both sons have benefited enormously from the experience. One was always very social and this just added to his experience. I'm not going to try and tell you there is no drinking, but it is certainly not the focus. There was drinking in the dorms, and in the houses were other students live. There is no more at the fraternity. As a matter of fact, I feel it is better monitored because they are always in fear of losing their charter. No such fear in an apartment off campus.</p>
<p>Second son was not a "social animal" and has just loved the experience. He lives in a house with his friends. These are hard working and intelligent kids. A large number of them are in the school of engineering or the business school. They did not get there by being "partiers". My son maintains a 3.9 GPA and has a great network in the house for sharing books, notes, study groups and mentors. </p>
<p>As for "paying for friends", he pays less to live in the fraternity house (including dues) than he did in the dorm or would living in off campus housing. I'm sure there are fraternities where these stereotypes persist, but there are others that can be a great experience. Our dentist was in their fraternity, and it created and instant bond for my otherwise shy son.</p>
<p>I don't think you can condemm ALL fraternities for the actions of a few any more so than any other groups. Research the fraternity itself, and the school. Most schools keep standings among fraternities. They rank them academically, athletically, and socially. Do research and decide for yourselves. Don't just listen to those who for whatever reason are quick to condemm all.</p>
<p>Thank you boysmom and kelsey. I encourage other parents who seem to be particularly stubborn about their opinions to think about what exactly they are basing their arguments on.</p>
<p>Also, something that people haven't really mentioned, is that kids in the frats aren't screwups. Many of the ivies have large Greek scenes, but all of those kids in those frats are very hard workers, or they simply wouldn't be there. They don't all of a sudden give up their hard work and start drinking into oblivion simply becuase they're in a fraternity.</p>
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<blockquote> <p>I'm not going to try and tell you there is no drinking, but it is certainly not the focus. </p> </blockquote>
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<p>What was the focus?</p>
<p>Interesteddad and the other parents are right. It seems like the focus for frats revolves around alcohol. I have good friends who have been "corrupted" by alcohol. One genius from our school who's going to Penn has a 2.0 GPA because he's in a frat.</p>
<p>I completely agree with Boysmom.</p>
<p>Pros of a frat/sorority:</p>
<p>You make connections with people. there are actually really good. a lot of times you'll end up making friends with a variety of people, some old some young. By doing this you get to learn from the failures of those who are older than you (and you have access to test dumps, so sometimes you can study a test for a class you're taking now and have a bit of an advantage -- this allows for more party time :) ).</p>
<p>By having such a close bond with these people, when they all move you'll be able to keep in touch and if you want to visit different cities you're usually 'close' enough to these people to stay at their houses/apartments.</p>
<p>The connections you make will last even after college, some sorority and frat groups have list servs where they talk about jobs opening up at their work, etc. In some cases I think the right call could open up things for you.</p>
<p>And then for sororities especially they learn a lot of responsibility, event planning is no walk in the park. My sister had to plan a charity event for women who suffer from domestic abuse, and her sisters had to take courses that dealt with female self defense and whatnot.</p>
<p>And then the people who keep whining about alcohol, come on. If kids want to drink, they will. Kids go crazy at college, especially the ones who live sheltered lives at home. There's that whole element of not having parental supervision. Rice University is supposed to be a campus where they drink a lot and rumor has it they do those crazy parties where the girls are naked and cover themselves in whipped cream, yet they have no greek scene. That just shows you that if they want it, they will do it.</p>
<p>I appreciate the last few posts. They seem to be more real and experienced, not just a replay of Animal House and the sheltered views of unknowing parents.</p>
<p>crackah, it will be in the end up to you what you choose to do. Tulane is going to have a very different social scene than other schools. Being in N.O. will have an effect on the social scene also. I am speaking as a resident of the metro N.O. area whose spouse attended Tulane grad school within the past few years and knows the scene there. Also speaking as a person who was in a sorority (not at Tulane) and whose spouse was in a frat in college (also not at Tulane). We are most definitely not "sheltered" as it hasn't been so many years back that we were witnessing all the things that have been described. I see pros and cons to being in the Greek system. Don't join it to make "connections" because neither my spouse nor I have remained very "connected" to the Greek systems we were in. Join it for the FUN or don't join. It was simply a good way to meet people at the university we attended and we had just as many friends not Greek as Greek. I realize that this may not occur at every college.
Our S is now a h.s. senior and may attend Tulane. We will leave it up to him what he wants to do as far as the Greek stuff. With the major he will have, he may well not have time for it with all the studying he will be doing. Fine by us. Good luck to you and may your choice be the best one for you!</p>