PSAT Scores and TASP Invitations

Test Preparation
1

This is a thread for people who are still interested in the question of how the TASP ‘16 invitations some people received in mid-December are related to recipients’ PSAT scores.

I realize that this question may seem unimportant now that students have received their actual scores. Certainly students competing for NMSF are rightly much more concerned about NMSF cutoffs. However, at least to me it is important to determine whether College Board is behaving in a professional and ethical way towards students and their families.

Both College Board and Telluride Association have stated that the TASP invitations were based on the students’ 2014 sophomore PSAT scores.

I gathered self-reported information to compile the following two lists. List 1 contains the 2014 PSAT scores of students who report receiving TASP invitations; and Table 2 contains the 2014 PSAT scores of students who report not receiving TASP invitations.

Students who Received TASP Invitations and Their 2014 (Sophomore) PSAT Scores
@dongrae 231

@aynaify 230

@Ynotgo 226 CA

@foliotai 220

@645Silence 217

@dsi411 217 CA URG
@mnpapa29 211

@Bunnylionm 205 URG
@flyingboat 202 (74/63/65)

@loquatical 200

@an7311 195

@SammieB 191 (59 W)

@ChrispyChop 190 (63/65/62) CA

@dazedaura 189

@Chew97083 188 AL

@bsdsj22 186

@packalum 185

@fisisk 181 (60/69/52) CA

@Classof2017 173

@carmelot39 170

@bamadude 160’s

@inthedark “abysmal” URG

Students who DID NOT Receive TASP '16 Invitations and their 2014 PSAT Scores

@KrazyKing5461 230

@yousefk 214

@kiffhd 213

@jmann12348954 209

@Studious99 206 OR

@joeweller 206

@delilahxc 206

@JuicyMango 205

@bluekou23 201 (65/67/69) MA

@EarlVanDorn 194 Mississippi
@mghyps 190

@engineur 190 PA

@FutureMMAChamp 189 IA

This data is self-reported, incomplete, and may contain some errors (including my own typos). But on the face of it, there is not a good correlation between 2014 PSAT scores and receipt of TASP invitations. We have quite a few students who scored in the 180’s and even lower who received invitations (including non-URG), whereas we have students well over 210 who did not receive invitations. The numbers do not support the story given by College Board and Telluride.

I am not going to post all the data, but there is also not a good correlation between reported 2015 junior PSAT scores and TASP invitations, in the sense that quite a few students who report high and even very high 2015 junior scores did not receive invitations.

Several invited students who had low 2014 scores had much higher 2015 scores. Other invited students with lower 2014 scores have not reported their 2015 scores, possibly because the scores are not so high, or possibly because now that the students have their actual scores, they are no longer interested in the TASP invite correlation. However, I have not found any invited students who had relatively low scores both in 2014 and 2015.

Thus I think there are two possibilities:

  1. Telluride did not receive the 2015 scores in advance, and chose the invitees on the basis of 2014 scores using a strange algorithm;
  2. Telluride did receive the 2015 scores, and chose the invitees on the basis of both 2014 and 2015 scores, using a less strange but still non-obvious algorithm.

In conclusion, based on the data available thus far, I think there is still a non-negligible possibility that College Board released 2015 scores to Telluride Association prior to releasing them to the students and their families.

To show otherwise, we would need an algorithm explaining the non-obvious connection between the 2014 scores and the receipt or non-receipt of invitations.

2

The whole problem with this conspiracy theory is that I haven’t heard of anyone who didn’t take the 2014 PSAT who got a TASP invitation. So I don’t see how you can conclude they weren’t using the 2014 scores. And it doesn’t make any sense for them to use both sets of scores, because why would they care about the 2014 scores if they have the 2015 ones?

My guess is TASP realized when the scores were delayed they needed to send invitations based on 2104 or they might get too few applications. So they quickly threw some kind of hastily constructed criteria together and sent out the invitations.

3

@tammy21 What were the hastily constructed criteria that included PSAT 170 but excluded PSAT 230?

4

My guess would be geographic criteria. I am sure there are some areas of the country where they get plenty of applications anyway, and teachers nominate kids. And then there are areas where they get few applications. Zipcode based on socioeconomic criteria would make sense too. And no one is going to give you that information over the internet so you can figure it out. But who knows, that is just a guess.

The TASP applications are due in about 2 weeks, so it is very late to send out invitations now, and it makes sense they either had to use last years scores or move the deadline.

5

I’m wondering about the geographic aspect as well. In the reporting thread, no one from the state of Florida reported an invitation. Additionally, my son asked the two students at this school who also reported very high scores and they had not received an invitation either.

6

@tammy21
College Board stated that it had the 2015 PSAT scores ready in mid-December and also sent out student contact information to universities (for example, summer programs) on the basis of 2015 PSAT scores. So it is not that Telluride “had to” use the 2014 scores to keep its application deadline. Telluride only "had to"use the 2014 scores if College Board did not send Telluride the 2015 scores that CB had ready in mid-December and used to sell student contact information.

I understand that there are geographical differences, but I don’t see how you can explain a swing of 60 points or more based on geographical differences. For example, the difference between the highest and lowest NMSF cutoffs last year was 225-202=23 points, not 60 points, or even 40 or 30 points.

In my day, the TASP invitations were sent out based on PSAT scores only, not some secret algorithm with quotas.

7

Why on earth are people so obsessed with this? TASP is a small nonprofit trying to offer an opportunity to students. They have some arrangement with college board and when college board messed things up this year, they were also left to deal with things as best they could and still get the word out about their program. Maybe they had a huge list which included your scores earlier than you did. So did the college board and so did your GC.

Would it really have been better for them to wait to send out the info? Then we’d have a flood of complaints from students saying that they didn’t know about TASP in time and they missed out on a great opportunity and it’s unfair that only students who already heard of TASP were able to apply. FInd something worthwhile to care about and give this a rest.

8

@Plotinus you are not taking into account human error. The TASP invites were emailed on 12/17. For at least 3 days after the 17th we thought that my daughter did not receive the invite. I found it… in her trash. It would have been deleted forever had I not specifically searched for it. it looked that a thousand other pieces of junk mail. KrazyKing5461 scored a 230 in 2014. Are you CERTAIN he didn’t receive the invite? No. Not even close. Could have deleted it by accident. Could have been sent to a different email acount. Not to mention that we have no idea if he’s even telling the truth (sorry, Krazy, just stating the facts).

Produce one person (ONE!!!) who received the TASP invite but did not take the 2014 PSAT.

9

Some students who take the PSAT don’t choose to receive mailings. Could be one reason for the inconsistencies. Getting the mailing means nothing in terms of acceptance to TASP. Stop obsessing. Go work on you app instead, it is a lot of work – and your backup apps, too, since your odds of getting into TASP are minuscule.

10

Instead of telling the OP to “get over it” perhaps folks who aren’t interested in this topic should themselves move along?

11

@mathyone

If you read my first post, you will see that it is addressed to people who are interested in the topic, People who are not interested need not read further. People who want to cover up for College Board are not going to discourage me.

Please note that I am not a student, I do not have PSAT scores from 2014 or 2015, and I do not have a guidance counselor.

I have two interests:

  1. I am interested in how College Board behaves towards students and their families, since there is a growing record of unprofessional and unethical behavior by College Board. I have several students who have been on the receiving end of this behavior.

“Maybe they had a huge list which included your scores earlier than you did.”

Both Telluride Association and College Board have denied that College Board gave Telluride the 2015 PSAT scores before it gave the scores to students and their schools. Are you suggesting that Telluride and College Board are lying about this?

“and so did your GC.”

Guidance counselors did not receive the PSAT scores until January 6th. If Telluride had the 2015 PSAT scores before it sent out the TASP invitations, then it had them also before the guidance counselors did.

I think students and parents deserve to know the truth.

  1. I attended TASP in the distant past, and I am interested in changes in TASP and the way invitations are sent out since I attended. Telluride Association may be a small non-profit thing, but a TASP scholarship has (or used to have) a reputation as one of the most selective and prestigious awards a high school junior can earn. It used to be that receiving a TASP invitation was an indication of a very, very high PSAT score, virtually guaranteeing NMSF status.
    So now is that no longer the case? A TASP invitation just means that Telluride would like to receive your application, even if your PSAT scores are not so great, and not nearly as good as the PSAT scores of many other people who did not receive invitations?
12

There is just so much obsession out here over the wrong stuff… and this is an example of it.

13

I am intrigued by the topic but the “evidence” provided to support the conspiracy theory is rather embarrassing. At least so far. I find it hilarious that @Plotinus glosses over the fact that DOZENS of people have reported 220+ scores for 2015 and received no invite. @Plotinus doesn’t mention that. Neglects it. Ignores it. Like I said - embarrassing.

14

@intparent
If I had 19,662 posts on College Confidential, I would not accuse people of obsession.

@mnpapa29

I did note that there could be some errors in the data.

Let’s assume the invitations were sent out based on the 2014 sophomore PSAT scores only. What was the algorithm for sending out invitations? Was there a cutoff? There were quite a few people with scores in the 180’s who received invitations, including people from states like CA with high NMSF cutoffs

If there was a cutoff of 180, does that mean that around 40k invitations were sent out, and most of them were lost? We are not talking about a couple of lost emails, but tens of thousands. Also, there would be no relation between a TASP invitation and NMSF status with this kind of cutoff.

15

@mnpapa29
“I find it hilarious that @Plotinus glosses over the fact that DOZENS of people have reported 220+ scores for 2015 and received no invite… @Plotinus doesn’t mention that. Neglects it. Ignores it. Like I said - embarrassing.”

No, what you write is false. I said very clearly in my first post in the thread:

“I am not going to post all the data, but there is also not a good correlation between reported 2015 junior PSAT scores and TASP invitations, in the sense that quite a few students who report high and even very high 2015 junior scores did not receive invitations.”

I wonder if some parents would score as well as their offspring on the PSAT Reading. Embarrassing.

16

So TASP had the 2015 data, but simply chose not to invite the many who scored over 220 on the 2015 test but instead chose to invite some who scored in the 180s in 2014. Got it. Your case has now been proven beyond the shadow of a doubt. Can’t wait for the depositions.

17

@mspapa29

You continue to misrepresent what I wrote in my post, so I suggest you read it again or if it is still too difficult, have your child who did well on the PSAT explain it to you.

18

Well, if this is representative of TASPers, I have no regrets about my kid not being remotely interested in the program.

19

College Board denies sending the 2015 scores to TASP

TASP denies receiving the 2015 PSAT scores from College Board

ALL recipients of the TASP invite took the 2014 test (as 10th graders)

Nobody received a TASP invite without having taken the 2014 PSAT

Many who scored exceptionally high in 2015 did not receive a TASP invite

Some who received the TASP invite reported low or fairly low 2014 PSAT scores and some who claim not to have received the TASP invite reported high 2014 PSAT scores. Suspicious? Yes. Dispositive? Absolutely not. We do not know the states where these individuals reside. Don’t know their ethnicity. Don’t know their interests. Who knows what criteria TASP used?

What we do know is that the PSAT scores were released MUCH later than normal. The TASP deadline is just around the corner. They had to send out invitations in December. If they had all the 2015 scores, why not just send the invites to the top scorers in 2015? They didn’t do that. They sent the invitations based on the only figures they had - from the 2014 test. Very reasonable to assumne that a 189 10th grade score could translate into a much higher 11th grade score. Also reasonable to assume that they lowered their standards slightly because for the first time ever they didn’t have a junior class pool of scores.

As for the ones who reported high 2014 scores with no invite - email address changes, junk mail folders, accidental deletions, etc.

The conspiracy theory has failed. Miserably.

20

@Plotinus “In my day, the TASP invitations were sent out based on PSAT scores only, not some secret algorithm with quotas…
It used to be that receiving a TASP invitation was an indication of a very, very high PSAT score, virtually guaranteeing NMSF status…
So now is that no longer the case? A TASP invitation just means that Telluride would like to receive your application, even if your PSAT scores are not so great, and not nearly as good as the PSAT scores of many other people who did not receive invitations?”

Yup, only the right sort of people need to be in the know to apply. Wow.