<p>This is a privileged problem, and I am not looking for sympathy as the boy in question has excellent grades and is doing well in school. He and his friends have done some amazing and creative things but they are just being boys. In the past year they have learned outdoor orienteering through a local search and rescue organization, built a wing with hand straps and have experimented with a kind of crude hang gliding thing that scared the hell out of them when they became airborne, built a motorized sofa as a prank, and regularly hack and improvise with both hardware and software. They are kind of slackerboys in that they appear to do no work but S. consistently produces amazing grades in really hard classes. His AP physics teacher called him a little sh** when he rolle d into class and aced a test that the rest of the class flunked and had the bad manners to tell her it was an easy test--she could tell he had not even bothered to study.</p>
<p>Being kind of a slacker, he just wants to go to the state U. We do not have SAT's back yet, but I was wondering if we are undershooting in terms of schools who would want a kid like this. He is not a striver, doesn't care about credentials, but he is the kind of kid who would figure out how to disassemble a police car and reassemble it in an inconvenient spot and not get caught. He has never been in trouble and as I said has a stellar GPA and as a junior has blown away the AP science and math classes that the seniors take. The problem is that he just sort of screws around. High school math and science really are easy--but he does buckle down in a very strange way. </p>
<p>Are schools like CalTech and MIT and RPI still in the market for crazy inventive boys or has it become too locked down and goal driven for a kid like this to be happy? The state U. has an excellent engineering program, but it is very big and very numbers driven. I wonder if this kid might actually be happier at a place that catered to the mad inventor that lurks within him--or is that a stereotype from decades ago? Where can a kid who can motorize a sofa find happiness in college?</p>
<p>If you think he'll consistently go to class and do what has to be done, I think CalTech, MIT and RPI are great places to apply. Carnegie Mellon is another place I thought of right off the bat. </p>
<p>He sounds like a great kid who perhaps hasn't been challenged enough. As long as he's the kind of kid who rises to the challenge, he should be fine. </p>
<p>By the way, I would have him apply to the state U anyway. You never know how things will pan out; he may get merit $.</p>
<p>Caltech has an essay now about quirkiness, and others places where you can add what you can see contributing to the campus culture. I can imagine your S writing about he'd like to participate in interhouse parties, where themes are built in the courtyard (in past, also the tunnels). Examples--building ship for Pirate theme. Long ago, a car was disassembled and rebuilt inside a room. Then there is Ditch Day. Such pranks are highly valued. This year an outstanding person and student won the Rhodes, and one of his ECs was being in charge of the MIT prank. I recall S's first room, where a bed and dresser were on the floor, but the couch, 2nd bed and dresser, all were hanging from the ceiling.</p>
<p>In short, is being a mad inventor valued at a school such as Caltech? Definitely yes.</p>
<p>Mombot, my S1 is somewhat like yours in that he was a really smart student in high school who seemed to do it with little effort. Some teachers got a little irritated at him too (sleep through class make an A on test with no study). He never prepped for SAT's or studied for AP's(took 7, did well) and did not care about competition or prestige (quit NHS due to all the talk about gpa's,class rank and such). He too, ran with a crowd of guys who were all about having fun all the time doing crazy stuff that made me cringe (not mad inventors just other daring stuff). He also spent almost thirty hours a week at a part-time job.</p>
<p>S1 was only interested in applying to our State U. ( I made him apply to a couple of others but they were state u's too) depsite having a large outside scholarship he could have used anywhere. He is now a rising senior (Dean's List) at the State U. and told me just this weekend that he was really glad he chose it. He has not skated through like he did in high sch. He learned quickly that college required more effort. Apply to many but don't discount the State U. as it may turn out to be the place he really likes best.</p>
<p>My son just finished his first year at RPI and loves it there. (He is a chemical engineering major) In talking with him, my sense of it is that the students there have a wide range of work habits (kids who study hard and kids who seem to hardly study) and that the kids are very smart and focused but that there is no sense of cut throat competitiveness there. Lots of collaboration on projects etc. Still, the school has an entrepreneurial emphasis to many of its programs which should suit students who have their own individual interests and projects to pursue. Also, if your son has accumulated any AP credits, RPI will waive some of those introductory math and science courses and let your son go right into more advanced classes that will challenge him more. My son started last fall with enough AP credit to get a semester waived. This will also allow him more flexibility to do a paid co-op semester or paid internship and still graduate on time. RPI may be a good school for your son to consider.</p>
<p>Take your son to visit Caltech, my son is not nearly as adventurous as yours, but he sounds like a perfect fit for Caltech or MIT. (I just know Caltech better since dh was a grad student there.) It wasn't just the pranks and Ditch Day that appealed to my kids. It was the serious honor code - take home exams, (students who run out of time often draw a line to show when their time was up, but finish the exam anyway), students have keys to everything on campus etc. It's a matter of respect and I think most kids really do live up to it. That said, it's very hard to get into so look at places like WPI and RPI that have similar cultures.</p>
<p>The advice here is good, but don't turn up your nose at the state u quite so much. It is likely to have a nice set of students just like your son. A few of them may never get out of the hacker-slacker rut, but most of them find challenge, eventual maturity, and lots of opportunities for fun, mischief, and profit along the way. The professors aren't dumber than the students, and they know how to identify, stimulate, and harness talent, provided that the talent is willing to be stimulated and harnessed.</p>
<p>I'm not turning up my nose at the state u. at ALL--don't get me wrong. it is one of the top CS programs in the country and has an excellent and highly regarded engineering school. But the engineering program there is huge, very numbers driven, and has a LOT of diligent, hardworking and grade driven students as competition. No hacking culture there that I know of.</p>
<p>
[quote]
...he is the kind of kid who would figure out how to disassemble a police car and reassemble it in an inconvenient spot and not get caught.
<p>And motorizing a sofa? We did that for dorm rush one year. The Campus Police showed up to check on the building and stuff, and decide that they wanted to take rides. It was incredibly surreal to look out the window of the big dorm lounge and watch a couch with a police officer sitting on it zoom by the window.</p>
<p>However, the sort of arrogance you describe is not much liked by MIT. He'd have to suppress it on his application. Once he got there, it would probably be knocked out of him by both circumstances and upperclassmen during his freshman year, a process known as "defroshing" (he would be far from the first frosh to have this problem). I expect it would be good for him.</p>
<p>He would have to work. You don't pass if you don't work. Your average MIT student never had to work seriously in order to succeed in school before they got to college, so he would be surrounded by other freshmen who are making the same adjustment and upperclassmen who have already been through it.</p>
<p>If you have questions about MIT, PM me. :)</p>
<p>Of course, I am not saying that you should discount your state U. I'm speaking only about the school I really know.</p>
<p>As weird as this may sound, I think he needs a girlfriend who will tell him to quit being a slacker and that he is capable of more. If a girl told a guy that she thought he was MIT worthy, it would give him the desire and confidence to try.</p>
<p>The large size of our state u allows for research in every area imaginable and plenty of opportunity for freshman on up to get involved. Undergrad is a time for exploration. Our opinion is the greater number of choices the better.</p>
<p>Apply to the local U., but definitely check out other schools. U Chicago has amazing math and science programs, and values what they call "uncommon" minds to a high degree. Might be suitable for your son, in addition to the other suggestions already made.</p>
<p>MIT would be perfect for your S! Many of the folks I knew from MIT were just like your S. My only concern is that he not alienate those teachers who could write strong letters of recommendation for him.</p>
<p>If your son <em>wants</em> to attend the state U, I think you should feel lucky to be saving the money from private school tuition rather than fret over his not being "more motivated" when it comes to college choice. </p>
<p>My brother attended a large state U (I have suspicions it might even be the same U your son is considering) despite his mind being rather "MITish" if I do say so myself (and my son is at MIT currently, so I am pretty familiar with "the basic type" there) and he feels it served him <em>very</em> well. He has gone on to become eminent in his field, been named to the Scientific American top 50 list, won an Inventor of the Year award, published lots of articles, gotten plenty of patents (I think he was the most patent heavy producer at his place of work one recent year), is on a bunch of pretty prestigious boards, etc. I really don't think people like my brother or your son (nor mine) need to attend schools like MIT or Caltech as far as career success is concerned, but it can perhaps help to find "kindred spirits" and people to start a company with and such. Some believe it is also better for finding a future spouse, but I heard from our son's suitemate last week that MIT students are told by others at MIT (faculty, I am guessing he means here) not to marry other MIT students, perhaps because as it could increase the odds of having autistic children or something. In any case, your son can always attend one of the big name private schools (well, not Harvey Mudd, but some others like MIT) for graduate school when they can be fully funded by the school rather than cost your family one cent and this way your son would have both the state U experience and the private big name school experience. I am very glad this is the route our son has gone.</p>
<p>There's just no substitute for visiting the schools if you can swing it financially. You never know which schools he'll fall in love with and which he'll reject out of hand. I think that a kid can be successful pretty much anywhere, as long as he likes the school and it has the majors he's interested in.</p>
<p>You asked: "Are schools like CalTech and MIT and RPI still in the market for crazy inventive boys or has it become too locked down and goal driven for a kid like this to be happy?" </p>
<p>Based on my observations as a parent of a recent Caltech graduate I agree with other posters which indicated the institute is a place that values inventiveness and students that are interested and willing to explore and experiment. No question about that. However, in partial answer to your question I think it is important to notice that there is a level of goal orientation and a great deal of discipline that is required to succeed in that environment (and I suspect MIT, RPI or the other technically oriented schools). This is particularly true during core. What I saw in my son is that he was happy when he was able to balance the things he loved to do with the things that he had to do. It was not always the case, especially during his sophomore year.</p>
<p>Don't get me wrong, I still think Caltech may be the right place for your son and students like him, but it is also a very unique place where a good fit is essential. As MarinMom indicated, there is no substitute for getting a feel for the school in a visit. I have the feeling your son would know rather quickly if there is a match.</p>
<p>Harvey Mudd students pride themselves on inventive pranks with an engineering bent. It's a sellling point they publicize in their literature. A kid who motorizes a sofa would seem to be able to fit right in.</p>
<p>But re the State U, I do think he should apply but also he needs to be shown what the other schools may have to offer him. Where he sits now is likely no where near where he will be sitting next May and you want him to keep all options wide open.</p>