Pushing too hard -- burnout

College Majors Music Major
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<p>We insisted on the music and practice up to 9th grade. They then got to choose. All 4 stayed in music to varying degrees. S1 went on to take some classes, do some jazz and participate in Blue Band at PSU. Does not play much now but may return to it informally. S2 played around with guitar through college, good way to make friends, but no longer plays. S3 more talented than S1 on the same instrument, gave it up after HS. Kind of disappointing but his choice. He never wanted to take lessons or practice much, just got by on his natural talent. DD is the only one majoring in music in college. Neither DH nor I are in the business and had know idea what she was getting in to. </p>

<p>Watching all 4 the key differences was in how much they would voluntarily turn to their music in spare time and how driven they were to improve. S1 and DD were the most involved. In spare time they would work out new music. When under stress they would turn to music for relaxation. The difference between S1 and DD was by 10th grade DD wanted a better teacher and S1 was OK not taking more lessons when his teacher left. Her drive to be better was greater. </p>

<p>However it was not without up and downs. She did not always practice what she was supposed to. Her teacher was hard on her when she was not prepared. At one point she wanted to switch to an easier teacher and we had to have a discussion as to what she wanted to accomplish and why she chose that teacher originally. She is the one that chose to stay however. </p>

<p>So I guess the answer is it is a careful dance to guide not push. Allow the talent and passion to blossom but not force it. Keep the doors open as long as they have passion while they learn to make good decisions. But also figure out when to let up when the passion is not there. Music will always be a part of their lives now, just not the central part in all but DD. And that is the gift we gave them.</p>

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<p>Wow- what a great thread to discuss. Good question Chazmire.</p>

<p>What kind of parent are you?
With 3 kids playing music (ranging from college-age in a conservatory to 8 years old), I would suspect from the outside that my husband and I must appear to be pushy music parents, but that's so very far from the truth! I can be fairly certain I am not one of them, because I do see (and speak) with those parents every week at the youth symphonies and other youth ensembles. I recognize them in a moment from what they ask and say and do. We do things very differently.</p>

<p>Pathways
As your kids travel forward, they choose different paths they'd like to explore. Soccer, theater, ice-skating, whatever, often many at the same time. As the parent, my job is to help keep that pathway(s) clear of debris so it is easier for my kids to navigate that pathway for as long as they choose. Sounds simple, doesn't it. In many ways, it is. Just be very supportive of your kids in all their endeavors, not just your favorite ones or the one's that will help with college scholarships (although it is easier to get excited over those!)</p>

<p>"the facilitator"
Jokingly, I refer to myself as a "facilitator". That is really what I do. Carpools are taken care of, applications are filled out, tuxedos are clean and ready to wear, music stands are in their bedrooms- I make it easier for my kids to do what they want. And they can practice in the house anytime they want. My older son wanted his shows TIVO'd while he attends precollege, so he can do both. Done.</p>

<p>Prioritizng
My kids occasionally vacillate between "I can't live without playing music, perhaps even as a career" and "I'm just doing it for the fun of it." I accommodate both perspectives. Part of my job as janitor of the pathway is to explore ahead, to anticipate what is coming up around the corner and forewarn the kids so they are not faced with surprise decisions or the panic that can arise from making a decision without being prepared. I am also able to lay out the options ahead, so they can better determine how to prioritize and time manage, (or summer manage or life manage). But I always allow them to choose their priorities. I am available to help them decide, but these decisions I leave to them. My 8-year old dropped one of his two orchestras so he can tap-dance. Last year he wanted two orchestras, this year tap. His priority, my solution.</p>

<p>Practicing
I never insist on practicing, but have on occasion suggested to my little one that things may get crazy later and this moment might be a good time. He learned from the older siblings that musicians practice every day, and he determines if and when he does practice. He knows, if he should decide he doesn't want to practice, he can choose not to as well. But he knows the consequences might be that he would not play as well, and he doesn't want those consequences either. Sometimes, the kids play wii for 20 minutes before practicing, other times, after practicing. There is no "reward" for practicing other than the personal satisfaction of knowing they will be a better musician And a lot of "sounds great" and "you're really improving".</p>

<p>Bottom Line
I know a lot of parents may disagree with our laisser-faire attitude, but it has worked well for us. We feel that the discipline needed to do music (or anything else in life) had best come from inside, rather than imposed from outside. All the hard work and desire comes from them. But just because we are more "go with the flow" doesn't mean we are less prepared or less supportive. I do my homework too. I know it sounds trite, but it is true, the key to success is a team effort.</p>

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<p>I love this phrase:

[quote]
janitor of the pathway

[/quote]

:D</p>

<p>Interesting, teammom, that while you and I have similar kids and results (we know this because we've met in real life!), we had somewhat different paths! Guess there is a lesson in that: perhaps that you know your kids best!</p>

<p>I had a thought while reading your post, though. My oldest was, of course, the first to start music lessons. He takes everything he does very seriously, and is exptremely self-motivated. My H and I have always felt that our other two kids were so easy to raise because S1 was such a good model. My second son idolized his older brother (and still does, to some extent, although the feeling has become somewhat mutual) - if S1 said practice was important, then S2 was, by golly, gonna practice.</p>

<p>Wonder if that happened in your family, too - when younger siblings look up to and respect older siblings, their values get shared, too.</p>

<p>
[quote]
the key to success is a team effort

[/quote]
</p>

<p>hence, your screenname...</p>

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<p>Absolutely Binx,
My oldest was (and still is) a very self-directed, hard-working student. She never took her talent for granted. She thinks success in music is 99.9% perspiration. And similarly to your S1, she has a strong personality, and therefore a strong influence, over her younger siblings.</p>

<p>It is interesting that with very different approaches, our kids ended up in similar scenarios. Sounds like we need a control group to test that theory...</p>

<p>...or</p>

<p>what we have in common, our unquestioning support of our kids, is the overriding influence on the outcome.</p>

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<p>Oh team mom...I feel like a janitor of many pathways!
We have two d's, very different, on the same path.<br>
Older d is our butterfly. Whatever will be, will be. She did not sweat too many things, did well in school, did well in auditions. Never the top or the best but never really driving herself to be there, which is just fine. We did not push her, she was always a good kid. She is attending a conservatory for musical theater/opera. Works very hard, IS top in her class, and ends up being in most shows she auditions for. So, not a lot of drive, not a lot of push in high school, but is very driven in college and doing very well. We were a little worried about her being eaten up at college. But, she was focused and jumped right in...no real problems adjusting at all.
Now, our younger d is very driven in all that she does. She is very demanding of herself. She does homework, studies and practices without us ever having to tell her....and I worry about her being soooo driven. She knows that her field (flute) is incredibly, outragously competitive. But, she loves it. I am worried that she will go through burn out with her senior year coming up. So, when she wants to go out with friends instead of practicing for two or three hours on a Friday, I am thrilled!! Crazy, huh? The best lesson that she learned this year was when she had a 90% in AP US History...gasp!! That to most of us is a very acceptable grade, but for her it was not. However, she got up the next morning, the sun came up, she went to school and life as a whole was still good. I saw her relax a little. Maybe having that first little stumble takes the pressure off just a little.
As a flautist she is good...not a prodigy, but good. We never pushed her to music...she was a very good rider up until music started to fill her life. As that happened, she asked for more music lessons and less riding lessons! She has had to play catch up just to compete in our area...and she has caught up quite well, however....She has had auditions where she could do no wrong, and she has had many auditons when she did not perform to her level. Such is the life of a musician. It can be stressful working so hard, knowing you can do it, and then not performing to your best. It breaks my heart when that happens! What is amazing is the passion that she has for her music. With every bad audition I would say...this is the rest of your life, are you sure you want to do this?...and through the tears of disappointment (by then both of us are crying...), she would say..."I don't want to imagine my life without it." So, we pay for lessons, camps, instruments, cheer, cry and do everything possible to get them prepared for the road ahead. It is a team effort...from everyone.</p>

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<p>In my case, I have four sons, all of whom are musical. But only one (this year's senior) is first and foremost a musician. There was no guesswork involved--he had one focus from about 9th grade on. The other three love music and it is big in each of their lives in slightly different ways, but it is only part of what they do. The one who will go to a conservatory next fall was clearly always going to have music his one main passion.</p>

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<p>A familial example of opposite ends of the spectrum is my son and his sis, two years younger.</p>

<p>Both started in third grade, within the public school system, with the same teacher. He "assigned" her the viola as well, and we had our reservations about similarities and comparisons being made between the two kids.</p>

<p>We had previous issues with teacher comparisons, as son was academically at top of his class, and we did not want D pushed, goaded, compared or graded against her brother's abilities. We went out of our way to avoid using the same subject teachers for D, and were able to pick and choose teachers we could trust would not draw comparisons, at least publicly or within the classroom setting.</p>

<p>We had to remind D to practice, occasionally forcing the issue. She was at the upper third within her peer group, but had no love for it. She put it down in at the end of middle school. We urged her to at least play at the high school level to fulfill her arts requirements, but she balked and refused to sit in an orchestra with her brother as principal.</p>

<p>She asked for a guitar, and lessons. We agreed, she tried it, but quickly stopped. We did not force it.</p>

<p>I've wondered how much of this attitude was the result of playing in her brother's shadow on the same instrument versus the importance of music to her. If she had tried the cello, violin, bass, or switched to a brass or woodwinds might she have enjoyed it more?</p>

<p>They were both academically similar, but S rarely worked for his grades, whereas she always had to study for her A's. We never drew comparisons, and shut down those we were aware of very quickly. We never sensed a tension or rivalry between them, but they never have developed a close relationship, or any commonality of interest.</p>

<p>Perhaps we changed milkmen. Sometimes I wonder.</p>

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<p>I can assure you, violadad, very different personalities arise within a family. My four sons are each so unique. And it's too tempting to go back in our minds and wonder if we had taken a different approach, would that one have stuck with piano, or gone on to study music in college instead of ending up in law school (hating it)?? Anyway, I feel like a sensitive parent knows when to back off and when encouragement starts to become pushing. I try not to let my ego get in the way of the kids' development. But, it's hard to ALWAYS be perfect about judging what they need!</p>

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<p>Four sons, jazzzmomm? Sounds like our experiences are quite similar, in more than one way.</p>

<p>When fourth grade rolled around, the line in our house was "pick an instrument." Our school district has a very strong music program, and we couldn't see them not taking advantage of the opportunities it offered. </p>

<p>The expectation was that they would play through middle school, then one year into high school. They could then drop the instrument if they so chose. Our reasons for insisting they play into high school were threefold. First, musicians come in different shapes, sizes, and genders. It is a most egalitarian of enterprises (at least at that level). Playing as part of an ensemble let them see classmates in a different light and experience being bested by, of all people, girls! Secondly, it afforded them the opportunity to work with a group toward a common goal - that concert performance. Everyone had to pull his/her weight. Not doing so diminished the result for everyone. A valuable life lesson. Lastly, it instilled in them the ability to recognize and value a good performance, no matter what the musical genre. Nothing helps you appreciate how hard something is until you try it yourself.</p>

<p>Of the four, S1 kept up the violin through HS, but dropped it once he went off to college. S2 is pursuing his masters of music in trombone performance. S3 dropped trombone in HS, picked up the guitar, and enjoys making music for himself and his friends. S4 (still in HS) is a cellist who will likely continue his instrument as an avocation rather than a vocation, but who knows? S2 and S4 are dedicated and passionate about their instruments; S1 and S3 have a deep respect for their brothers' abilities as well as the musical talents of professional performers. So, mission accomplished.</p>

<p>In response to the OP, I will say that it was tough getting S1 and S3 through middle school. We did encourage (insist?) that they stick with it through ninth grade, and reminded them that most adults do not regret ever having learned to play an instrument - they regret giving it up. (In fact, I have two friends well into middle-age who have started once again taking lessons on instruments abandoned in high school.) S1 has said that he was glad he stayed with it, since doing so led him to have some wonderful experiences in high school.</p>

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<p>Our son asked if he could stop music in 7th grade, and, when I said that was fine, he put his hands on his hips and answered "You're not supposed to say that!" I repeated that I felt he had had enough exposure to enjoy music for the rest of his life, and if he wanted to try other things it was absolutely fine. His reaction was to recommit to music on his own (and he also did other things). He is not a musician now, but the bigger lesson was about the freedom that comes with taking responsibility, and giving him that autonomy helped him feel that he "owned" what he was doing.</p>

<p>It is apparent from all these posts that a kids' personality plays a big role in how we parents deal with things. Another kid might have answered me with a big grin, a thanks, and gone off to play baseball for 4 years or something.</p>

<p>Our third child is a dancer. Since she was 11, various people treat her as predestined for dancing, and I do not think kids that age should be labeled yet. Several times a year, I ask her if she would like to dance less, or take art classes instead, or do school plays. She did try out for a play, and takes art at school. But whenever I offer other options to her dancing life, she says no, why would she do that? I think that asking this question frees the whole thing up from parental control, and leaves it in her hands.</p>

<p>She does however want to be treated as if she COULD do other things. She doesn't want to feel that she is a dancer because that is the only thing she is good at. And she doesn't want it to be her whole identity either. But, like our son, every time I talk with her about pursuing other options, or taking a break, she seems to recommit in an autonomous way.</p>

<p>Our musician daughter, who is a composer and guitarist, and played clarinet for years at school, did many other things in middle school and early high school. We thought she was headed for theater, actually. We had to play catchup in 11th grade, not 9th, once she became really dedicated to music. But things are so much better, because she is the one who drives it all: for instance, we have never mentioned practicing at all, whether guitar or solfege. Now, we are discussing conservatory versus college. She got into both, and it is obvious at this point that she will decide herself. I support either choice.</p>

<p>With all our kids, they seem to know what they need to do in a given year. However, there are things I have time for, that they don't. For instance, I mentioned a music history class in a catalog my daughter had not read, and she is really enjoying it. I might see a poster for a dance or music workshop and mention it.</p>

<p>The main thing I think is to help keep inspiration going. I feel like parenting artistic children is like surfing: you help them catch the waves. When they are in a trough, it might be time for a new teacher, who is at the next level, or has a certain personality, or a summer program that inspires and draws them forward.</p>

<p>I see this kind of role as being in front of the kid, helping to draw them forward, rather than in back of the kid, pushing, if that makes sense!</p>

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<p>Wow, what a great discussion. I feel a little out of place, being only a high school junior, but I figure I'd throw in my two cents.</p>

<p>I've been playing piano since I was 3, happily starting at first but forced to continue by my parents for most of the time since. At times, I practiced with vigor and participated in concerts and recitals often. Other times, I loathed the piano and wanted nothing to do with the often frustrating hours of practice that it required. </p>

<p>To skip the life story, piano at this stage in my life is something I could never do without. I think my parents eased off their overbearing influence since they realized I rekindled my passion and enjoyment of music during middle school. Not to boast, but I am not exactly ungifted at piano, although I don't plan on attending a music school or conservatory of any kind since my focus has turned to academics and college applications next year. Still, I turn to my piano to relieve stress, I tackle harder songs whenever I can, and even work on compositions when I'm (really) bored at school. Honestly, I can't imagine my life or identity without music, and I'm glad my parents pushed me back then.</p>

<p>It's weird; a lot of friends I know have played an instrument at some time or another, quitting after a few years. I don't plan to ever major in piano, but to me stopping after fourteen years makes those hundreds of hours of blood and sweat worthless. This is something I plan to keep with me for the rest of my life.</p>

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<p>Great post, mewarmo. It sounds like you really have a good grasp of your priorities and of who you are. The posts in this thread have shone so much light on this issue for me. This website is just invaluable.</p>

<p>I'm trying hard to back off, while still applying enough pressure to make sure my son doesn't lose his focus as he navigates his own rough waters. Very difficult, as I realize how much I am personally invested in his musical life. This is the area I really need to back away from, as he very well could follow his older brother's lead and decide not to make music his goal for college and life. It would be devastating for me, as I see how much talent and upside he has, but that is not a healthy place for me to be. So I'll keep some pressure on, into his junior year, and then I'll let him be his own guide. That will give me the time I need to divest myself from the process, if I can.</p>