Hi! I have a newbie-type of question. Would taking a non-dual credit, regular college class during high school negatively affect or potentially compromise a student’s freshman status at a college?
What brought this up was that I was looking at Georgia Tech’s web-site and it defined a “Freshman” as a student “who has never been enrolled in a college, with the exception of dual enrollment while in high school”. This raised a red flag for me because it is possible that my DD may need to take an advanced college math class her senior year of high school that is not dual credit, because she may run out of advanced math classes to take at her school. Unfortunately, her high school does not offer the math class she wants/needs to take as a dual credit course, so her counselor told her she could just take it as a regular college class. Initially I assumed that this would be ok for her to do, but after reading that Georgia Tech definition of freshman, I became concerned. I do not want her to do anything to jeopardize her prospective freshman status, since we will be fishing for merit aid.
I know I should contact each college directly at some point and ask this question directly, but I first wanted to put this question out there to see if anyone else had come across this issue. Am I being silly in worrying about this?
You should check with the schools directly but I think most colleges consider classes that are taking before high school graduation a DE credit even if it doesn’t appear on the high school transcript. My d16 took CAL 3 at our local community college, she had to get all the regular DE paperwork signed off by her high school so she could take the class even though it won’t go on her high school transcript.
If the college’s web site is not clear, ask the college directly if a college course taken before high school graduation would affect her frosh applicant status.
While in HS, my D took a numbers of college-level courses in math and in physics at a private university (she ran out of math/physics classes at local community colleges). There units were listed in her college applications, but were not part of her HS transcript.
She was admitted to several universities as freshman and ended up at UC Berkeley College of Engineering. Math and Physics departments at UCB evaluated these units to the equivalent classes at UCB, but CoE didn’t allow them as transferable. CoE, however, allowed her to take more advanced classes to fulfill the basic math/physics requirements (e.g. Numerical Analysis instead of MultiVariable Calculus and Quantum Mechanics instead of Physics for Scientists and Engineers).
Thanks for all of the responses–they were very helpful! My takeaway is that although we should be ok, it is best to check with each college to be sure.
And Pentaprism–thanks for the heads-up about the transferred credits issue. I’m glad it worked out for your daughter that she was able to be placed in higher level math and physics at Berkeley–my D would absolutely love for that to happen to her–she too enjoys math and physics and looks forward to taking higher level classes in these areas in college.
I have the same issue. I checked with University of Alabama a few months ago, and they said that as long as she starts at U of A in the fall immediately following her high school graduation, she will be considered a freshman for scholarship purposes.
When she registered for classes at the community college, she made sure to check the box that she is NOT a “degree-seeking student”. Just in case that matters to some schools.
My son didn’'t have any issues from GA Tech or any other school. He had 5 college classes 3 at a CC and 2 at a 4 year college. None counted towards HS graduation for him but he enrolled as non-degree seeking and we had to get a paper signed by our HS stating he was a full time HS student to enroll in these classes. He submitted the college transcripts with all his apps. He goes to UChicago and got absolutely no credit for any of these classes. They don’t accept CC classes for transfer credit and his math classes from the 4 year college did not match up with any of their course offerings. He was totally fine with that and took the classes because he was interested in them not for credit. At GA Tech he would have received credit for all 5 classes though.
My son took at least 15 classes at the local U, e.g. Math, Latin, economic. The only class he would have taken in senior year would be English. His GC encouraged him to apply for college then. This was 2 days before winter vacation, and she put together his,package. He found 2 teachers willing to write LOR (well, 1 had already done this for something else)
Had he stayed in FL, all credits would have counted. Some colleges would have accepted some of the credits, but where he went counted none of them. We did call 2 colleges to confirm that, as long as he still one class at HS, he would be considered a freshman.
His close friend, a grade younger, realized he would be in a similar position. He was able to plan ahead for a year, to leave HS after his junior year.
I certainly wouldn’t encourage most kids to leave early, but both had run out of courses at our local HS.
Thanks again for the replies! They were very helpful! And Bookworm, it’s funny you should mention graduating a year early, because that what my D is considering doing. I am planning on posting a thread at some point to ask advice on that issue, since there are pros and cons to it. My kid is not being challenged in school and she wishes she could start college as soon as possible. She is a rising sophomore and she could graduate her junior year but it would require some doubling up on English and some rearranging. I wish I had planned it better and foreseen that we would be having this issue.
Since you mentioned it, @PurplePlum, my D started college at UCB CoE when she was 16, and graduated when she was 19. It did take a bit of luck, but also hard work and careful planning.
PP, from my perspective, you have a luxory of time. My son and I had just Wednesday night to decide on college list, download Forms for LORs, call a few Us to get questions answered.
In terms of English requirements, she could take English 4 online next summer.
@PurplePlum - There are a few colleges/universities that have programs that allow juniors in high school to skip their senior year entirely and register as freshmen. Bard as Simon’s Rock is one and USC Resident Honors is another. I believe that there are a few more out there.
That said, as long as you meet your state’s HS graduation requirements, you probably work with you HS to change your status from Junior to Senior and graduate early.
Wow Pentaprism–that’s impressive that your daughter accomplished all of that! Incredible!
I have been looking into early college entrance programs for her as well (thanks for the suggestion LoveTheBard). She would have to take a course or two over next summer I suspect in order to have the appropriate credits to graduate early unless I find a program that lets her enter without a high school diploma–though I’d have to investigate exactly which courses would be required to have been completed were we to go this route. My issue is that she was tested as highly gifted and she has always breezed through her courses, especially in math and science. She learns extremely quickly, which is the main issue. So, it does not seem to matter the level of difficulty of the courses, she is very unchallenged and bored in class and it has gotten worse instead of better now that she is in high school.
You are right Bookworm, we do have time to decide. She has until the end of her sophomore year to let her counselor know if she plans to graduate early and it is possible for her to do so, though as you pointed out, she will need to take summer course(s).
It should not be a problem for getting admitted as a freshman; however, if she wants to compete as a D1 athlete at an NCAA school, it could pose a problem. Check the NCAA website if she wants to compete in intercollegiate sports.
@purpleplum We had the advantage of homeschooling, so we didn’t graduate early. Our kids have been able to work at their own level wo issue, even DEing in 300 level courses. (Has never been a problem in terms of applying as freshman status.)
A couple of thoughts.
1- schools don’t care about early graduation, so they need to be equally competitive in less time. May or not apply.
2- Do you know about AoPS? Our Ds finished the sequence early on, but thy are a fabulous source for advanced kids. Most kids are ps students. Your Dd can join their forums even if she doesn’t take their courses. She will definitely find peers there.
Good catch on the NCAA issue Glido–she is an athlete and I do need to check on the NCAA rules. It had not even occurred to me to check…
And mom2aphysicsgeek, I have heard of AoPS. She and I need to look into the site more carefully though. You hit the nail directly on the head with your comment about schools not caring about early graduation. I agree that she will have to be equally competitive and I am worried about her overloading herself in order to graduate early. Of course she says she can handle it and still maintain her grades, but for example, she likely will have to take AP Eng.3 and AP Eng. 4 side by side her junior year. I’m afraid that may be a recipe for disaster! I can recall how work intensive those two classes were back when my older child took them and she did not take them in the same year. And its funny because she can handle whatever math and science you throw at her, but thus far her English classes have not been very hard, even though they are honors/pre-AP–plus she says she does not enjoy her English classes. So, truthfully, how she would handle two AP English classes at the same time worries me some. Of course an option would be for her to take the one of those two English classes at an AP level and one on an honors/pre-AP level, but then she won’t necessarily be viewed as taking the most challenging curriculum.
Ultimately, her goal is to major in engineering and she plans to apply to some competitive colleges (with a few safeties thrown in, of course). So, I don’t want her to graduate early if that will somehow negatively impact her college admissions. But I also hate to see her so miserable in high school. She really finds attending classes painful. Though I know that its possible that it may get a bit better the more AP classes she takes. At least that is what I tell myself. She does go to a great high school and the students there are pretty competitive and the teachers seem fine. It’s just that she is a fast learner and she absolutely loves to learn. I wish I was more like her back when I was a student.
If anyone else has any other thoughts or opinions on the graduating early idea, please share them with me. I can’t tell you all enough how much it has helped me to read the thoughtful responses that I have received. I am really struggling with this issue as I’m sure you can tell.
The brochure for CMU states explicitly that one can apply during junior year, if one has phased out of appropriate courses. FRom experience, MIT & Caltech do the same, not requiring a HS degree. The 2 colleges we were able to reach, in 1day, said apply, but he would be compared to others with more years of HS.
@purpleplum In terms of graduating early, what coursework will she have completed? You say, “This raised a red flag for me because it is possible that my DD may need to take an advanced college math class her senior year of high school that is not dual credit, because she may run out of advanced math classes to take at her school.”
Your description makes me ask b/c you said “an” advanced class, not multiple plural. The kids that I know who are graduating early are significantly advanced. They are taking the AP BC exam in 9th or 10th grade. AP chem is a 9th grade course. They truly are maxing out appropriate level course work.
Kids that are applying after regular graduation age that are competitive for some of these schools will have major awards, high AMC/AIME scores, etc.
The questions I would ask myself is what will she have if she graduates early compared to 12th grade applicants and what will she accomplish if she has more time in high school. Then weigh the pros and cons of graduating early vs. not.
I strongly encourage her to become active in the AoPS forums and take their online classes. They are truly a blessing for advanced kids. They are kids they can relate to each other, challenge their thinking, and really develop their problem solving abilities. AoPS filled a huge void in our ds’s life. I cannot say enough good things about what it did for him academically.
I can recall how work intensive those two classes were back when my older child took them and she did not take them in the same year. And its funny because she can handle whatever math and science you throw at her, but thus far her English classes have not been very hard, even though they are honors/pre-AP–plus she says she does not enjoy her English classes. So, truthfully, how she would handle two AP English classes at the same time worries me some. Of course an option would be for her to take the one of those two English classes at an AP level and one on an honors/pre-AP level, but then she won’t necessarily be viewed as taking the most challenging curriculum.