<p>Thank you for the advice. It is very much appreciated. It is true that I hate math, but I have neglected to mention that my passion for engineering outweighs my hate for math. I am fully committed to pursuing a career in Aeronautics and I know that without a strong math foundation, I will be unable to achieve this goal. A school that will really drill the math into me is what I am looking for.</p>
<p>As for rubbing salt in the wound, that was certainly not my intention. It is my belief that being level headed and down to earth are two of the most important characteristics in a person. No one else on these boards had the bravery to endure the flaming that I have just received from you, and I thought that I should be the one to bring him/her back to harsh reality.</p>
<p>Although, again I thank you for your comments. I know that you meant well.</p>
<p>
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No one else on these boards had the bravery to endure the flaming that I have just received from you, and I thought that I should be the one to bring him/her back to harsh reality.
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</p>
<p>Ah! The noble martyr cometh.</p>
<p>It turns out that Joe has been plenty mean to phuriku on another thread. I'm not against helping people come back down to earth, I just don't think that insults and "I'm happy they rejected you" accomplish that goal particularly well. And being brutally harsh to a kid who just needs a little maturity and experience is evil. Especially when he's hurting already.</p>
<p>It's always a little weird for me how smart people, most of whom endured the brunt of childish cruelty when they were small, can't muster a little charity when they get a little power. Empathy is not a vice.</p>
<p>"Empathy is not a vice." You would do well to follow your own advice, Mr. Golub. Why can you not empathize with me? I have just experienced a dream come true, and you immediately try to tell me that tech is not the place for me, that I won't enjoy the math and that I am too mean to fit in.</p>
<p>It's always a little weird for me how people feel the need to antagonize those who display the least bit of honesty. I was reading this thread, and I thought that everyone was being too politically correct - too diplomatic. So, I decided to be the one person that tells that truth, and I get antagonized by someone in a position of authority.</p>
<p>What I don't understand is how this has become an argument. I never intended so. I never attacked you. Quite to the contrary, I showed you the utmost respect from the beginning. I was merely doing what I thought was right. Is that so wrong?</p>
<p>Ihatestanford, you weren't the only one with that opinion, but "bravery" certainly doesn't describe how you voiced that opinion. It's sometimes best to leave words unsaid.</p>
<p>Also, Ben is right on the math part. I don't think he was trying to drive you away from Caltech out of spite for your comments. He was giving honest advice. Do not come here if you dislike math. Or in my case, I thought I liked math, then I came here.</p>
<p>ihatestanford -- Call me Ben, please. I'm 21 and not old enough for mister. I'm just a kid at Caltech.</p>
<p>Anyway, look, I think you were needlessly mean to the guy. At the very least you could tell him "I think you come off as such and such" in a PM as opposed to spanking him in a public forum. If you think it is okay to do that to him, I have some difficulty understanding your opposition to my posts.</p>
<p>Now let's let it go, if you would be okay with that.</p>
<p>When we signed the agreement to use College Confidential we agreed to their terms including:</p>
<p>"When writing your messages, please use the same courtesy that you would show when speaking face-to-face with someone. Flames, insults, and personal attacks will not be tolerated. It's fine to disagree with opinions, ideas, and facts, but always with respect for the other person."</p>
<p>I think the application process makes some of us doubt ourselves. I got in, but one of my friends who could easily be smarter than I am did not get accepted. Colleges take so long to send out acceptance letters because only the admissions people can decide who to accept, it is not our choice and their choice is not always logical.</p>
<p>I just want to emphasize the math point. Between core math, core physics (which obviously uses its fair share of math), ACM 95 (for Aero), you're already looking at 13 terms of math, not to include all the math that will be used in your option specific classes. Although engineering uses a lot of math, I would encourage you to look into other schools if you do not like math. In my opinion, Caltech does not have so much a strong engineering program as a very strong science program which in turn means that it has a pretty good engineering program. I feel like instead of teaching engineering through more practical and design oriented approaches, Caltech will go into the details, i.e. physics and math, of a lot of things. This is something that I really enjoy as I like physics and math more so than engineering but if your interest is in engineering, I think you should take a closer look at other programs.</p>
<p>dLo, I may be way off the mark here because I obviously don't attend Caltech, whereas you apparently do, but my desired major is Aeronautical/Aerospace Engineering, and surely you are not saying that this program is only "pretty good" as opposed to "very strong", are you? As far as I am aware, it is the best!</p>
<p>Obviously I don't have to explain my final decisions to everyone here, but I feel that if you are trying to help me find the perfect fit - which, again, I am very grateful for - I must explain myself. I enjoy physics very much. I have done a course on Newtonian mechanics, which included advanced math such as 2nd order non-hom. diff. eqs., Langrangian maximizations, Poisson brackets and much more. Knowledge of vector calculus was taken for granted. I enjoyed the course VERY much. What I don't like about math is what I did in Linear Algebra, and what is surely done by math majors all the time in college - proofs.</p>
<p>So, if I have not antagonized myself too much today, may I respectfully ask someone's opinion on whether or not this hatred of proofs, specifically, will hinder me in any way in a Caltech education?</p>
<p>Yes. There is no way to get out of Math 1a, which is all (simple) proofs, except via a proof-based exam; and then the grading in the remaining math courses -- even if you stick with the practical track -- is done by math grad students who expect reasoning at least somewhat similar to proofs whenever you "explain" something (but no formal proofs are required most of the time after Math 1a). There have been people who hate proof-based math and do fine, but many of them don't enjoy the math component of their education at Caltech.</p>
<p>Still for aero Caltech is tops, and the pain may be worth it to you. Just know what you are getting yourself into.</p>
<p>Thank you very much, Ben. Those are good things to know and will no doubt help me a lot when I make my final decision. Your comment about the "practical track" was especially helpful. I was under the impression that I could forego proofs entirely if I stayed on the practical track, and that proofs were exclusive to math majors. Now all of the "learn to love math if you want to do engineering" comments are making much more sense. Thank you.</p>
<p>Sorry if that was obscure... Math 1a (proofs) is required of everyone, and after that things split into the practical and analytical tracks, except for math 2b, which is practical for everyone.</p>
<p>Glad we were able to do something useful :)</p>
<p>ihatestanford, congratulation for your acceptance to Caltech. My feeling is that your math will be fine. Many high schooler never experience proof-based math but they learn it quickly at Caltech. Just keep an open mind about math proof, you may end up liking it.
By the way hate is a strong word, but kindness is far stronger. Again, welcome to Caltech.</p>
<p>Speaking of which, most students don't have prior exposure to proofs. Do they study some of the material just before school starts? I think that it would be quite difficult for many of them to get a decent grasp on proofs in a few months, especially when there is so much else going on first quarter</p>
<p>On top of that, the tests are easier than the problems, and students work together to solve the problems.</p>