Recruiting 101: What Not to Do

<p>
[quote]
sjmom - unfortunately this generalization is pretty accurate around my area, the suburban tri-state NY/NJ.

[/quote]
HUH? I live in Essex County & D goes to an all-girl Catholic in Bergen which is MUCH more diverse than the public h.s. in my town. If I worried about blacks, my D would only meet two or three for her entire h.s. stay if we stayed in town. Every Catholic h.s. in Essex, Bergen, & Hudson county can make the same claim of racial & class diversity. (D's h.s. is also much more religiously diverse than our town, for that matter.) It is as ignorant to make the claim that Catholics are bigotted as it was for that kooky recruiter to imply that blacks will be pulling guns on her D. </p>

<p>I love that comeback, mombot. I used it once myself on a biggot, claiming that my husband was black (even though he's not), and the reaction was priceless. I also once shut up a jerk ranting about "retards" by saying I had a child with Down's Syndrome. I agree that the school should be called. I also agree that there are biggots from all walks of life and from every school in America. Don't let that taint your view of the place if for other reasons the fit is a good one.</p>

<p>There actually has been reseach indicating that the two types of secondary and elementary schools that have been best at producing academically successful African Americans are schools on military bases and Catholic schools. I don't think that anyone yet has figured out why those types of schools have been so successful with African American students, but my guess is that both are more likely to hold black students to the same academic standards that they hold white students to.</p>

<p>what would affect my decision is how the college reacts to the information about the caller....do they brush it off, do they call, do they apologize, do they talk to her....you can't help who volunteers for you, but you can help if you let them continue after hearing bad reports</p>

<p>Good point, citygirlsmom.</p>

<p>Keep in mind, however, that more than likely the college isn't going to tell you how exactly they are going to follow up. Even if their plans are to drop her from their volunteer list or take her out to lunch and give her some information about diversity, they probably wouldn't tell you that. Also, for all they know, you could be a troublemaker who made up the story or you could have misinterpreted some very innocent remarks. </p>

<p>At best, I would expect that they'd ask for details, and give you the impression that they are taking notes. They'd also say very clearly that they do not support recruiting practices that are based on racism. And they'd promise to follow up by talking to the alumna. </p>

<p>Having been in a situation once where my well meaning remarks were totally misinterpeted by someone who then complained to my supervisor who believed them and then blasted me for something that I had never said or implied, I would hope that the college would definitely check into the situation without telling you that, for instance, the volunteer would be dropped from their list. </p>

<p>Of course, I believe you because I know you through these boards. I just wouldn't want you to drop a school from your D's list if the admissions office didn't appear to be reacting by immediately dropping the volunteer from their list.</p>

<p>Now, if they say something like, "Oh well. Those things happen," then I would definitely not want my kid to go to that kind of college that didn't care about apparent racism.</p>

<p>Mombot,
I believe I know the school you are talking about. I had a very nice conversation with the alum parent of current students attending the institution when the call came to our house.
I agree with the above posters who say one alum's opinion does not make the climate of the school. If the school is still under consideration, have your D decide after attending an accepted student overnight. She's the one who needs to feel comfortable there.</p>

<p>I agree they may not tell you, but you can get a sense of how seriouslly they take the situation</p>

<p>AND they should go out of their way a bit...</p>

<p>Another view:</p>

<p>My cousin and his classmate were shot by a Mexican (non-student) at a party at their Catholic college. They had to take off a semester to recover from their injuries. </p>

<p>Am I racist for saying that it was a Mexican that shot them, or am I simply reporting the facts?</p>

<p>When my kid was in second grade at a public elementary school, another student brought a loaded handgun to school. Am I a racist for saying that the kid who brought the gun to school was, in fact, black? </p>

<p>What if a black person were talking and said that a white person (or Asian, or Hispanic) walked into a party and pulled out a gun? Would the black person be a racist for mentioning the color of the person who pulled the gun? </p>

<p>Are newspapers racist for publishing photos of criminals--so everyone can see what color their skin is?</p>

<p>I agree that this is not the way fro an alum to recruit--but she sounds more like a worried mom rambling about what happened to her son at Your State U. than overtly racist.</p>

<p>Is she a racist simply because she said the word, "black?" Did she SAY that ALL blacks have guns, blacks are dangerous, etc., or did you assume that she meant that? </p>

<p>Ask yourself this: Are you more likely to send your kid to State U. now that you heard about the gun and suicide incidents because you want to show that you are non-racist and non-elitist and want your kid to be exposed to all kinds of real-world experiences? I doubt the (black) admissions director of the private school would want those experiences for her kid, either.</p>

<p>What is the purpose of private school? Being with people who share your values/outlook. People like you, right? IMO, all private schools are, by definition, elitist.</p>

<p>To go off on parochial school parents (I'm not one--I'm a gradate of public high school and 2 public universities) and students is probably more of a sweeping generalization than the alum's conclusion that public schools are all bad and dangerous because of the two incidents she mentioned. It would be just as reasonable for me to say that Catholic colleges are dangerous because my cousin got shot at one</p>

<p>atomom, I agree that it is ridiculous when race is left out of descriptions of criminals so as not to offend sensibilities. Telling us to be on the lookout for a criminal of a certain height, driving a certain type of car, and wearing a certain color jacket, but leaving out such a critical piece of identification as race is idiotic! But from the way the OP described the conversation, it seemed as if the race of the gun user was as important as the fact that he had used a gun.</p>

<p>"
My cousin and his classmate were shot by a Mexican (non-student) at a party at their Catholic college. They had to take off a semester to recover from their injuries. </p>

<p>Am I racist for saying that it was a Mexican that shot them, or am I simply reporting the facts?</p>

<p>When my kid was in second grade at a public elementary school, another student brought a loaded handgun to school. Am I a racist for saying that the kid who brought the gun to school was, in fact, black? </p>

<p>What if a black person were talking and said that a white person (or Asian, or Hispanic) walked into a party and pulled out a gun? Would the black person be a racist for mentioning the color of the person who pulled the gun? "</p>

<p>What does the race have to do with what happened? Certainly race is important when trying to help the police identify the perp, or if it appeared to be a race-based incident. Otherwise, who cares what race the person was unless one happens to think that the perp's behavior reflected some kind of bad characteristics of the perp's race?</p>

<p>When I was a well behaved, very shy kindergardener, for absolutely no apparent reason, another girl walked over and punched me hard in the stomach. Does it matter at all that I am black, was in Catholic school and the girl who hit me was white with blond hair and blue eyes?</p>

<p>When I was in 6th grade, I was bullied unmercifully. No mention was made of race even though i was the only black student in my entire 6th grade class. I have discussed with my sons my experience as the target of bullying, but not once did I ever mention that the bullies were white girls. </p>

<p>When I was a young journalist, I was the target of some sexist behavior by an editor in my office. I have discussed this with students as an example of how to handle such situations. I've never mentioned the fact that the editor was white.</p>

<p>Consequently, yes, I do think that the alum's mentioning race in those anecdotes did reflect her own racism. If you usually include the people's race in the stories that you just told, I also would see that as reflecting your own racism. [I'm not viewing it this way now because clearly you're including race to try to explain a point related to this thread.]</p>

<p>As an example of how little attention I would personally pay to race in stories of violence/crime: Once my husband saw a woman's purse get snatched. He chased the perp and got the purse back. When my husband told me this, I my only concern was that my husband's gallantry could have gotten him killed. Not once did I ask about the perp's race, nor did my husband mention it. Indeed, such a question never crossed my mind until now.</p>

<p>there is a difference between looking for a crminal and including the race and just describing a crminal BY race</p>

<p>In the above post, it was a MEXICAN shot them, the ONLY description used</p>

<p>The implication made by the caller was that it was because of them blacks that it was dangerous, and that is racist</p>

<p>To equate talking about a criminal ACT and lumping all blacks into a dodgy neighborhood problems are very different things</p>

<p>To me, it is more than just a nervous mom talking about safety, you can talk about safety WITHOUT talking about race</p>

<p>I can talk about gangs without focusing totally on black, white, or hispanic members</p>

<p>To me the caller crossed the line, and good for the mom to be P#)(%#D off, I would be</p>

<p>My D told me that yesterday she chewed out a freshman student...the freshman was making fun of gays, and saying to his friend, your such a f)( for doing that, etc...my D was furious and said WHAT DID YOU SAY...and the frosh twerp repeated it...my D said "well, that is just stupid, you never know who you could hurt by saying that, and it is immature, and pathetic to talk like that" the poor frosh was shocked to get that said to him, but D felt she need to say it and I applaud her</p>

<p>Just hearing what the basketball player said...what a jerk...and good for the NBA to do what they could</p>

<p>Again, difference between describing a suspect and lumping all people of a certain race into the same category</p>

<p>There is a link about a student who killed a girl while driving drunk and drove away, NO WHERE in the article is a description of the race of the students who ran and the parents who covered it up...and why not?</p>

<p>I have no clue if the drivers are black, white, green or martians, just they are college students...my gut tells me though that if they were a african american, or hispanic, or gay or anything but white, that would be put into the article</p>

<p>hmmmm</p>

<p>"sjmom - unfortunately this generalization is pretty accurate around my area, the suburban tri-state NY/NJ. This is a very common reason for parents to put kids in a parochial school, and for some reason they aren't even concerned about telling one and all that is why. Like the caller they aren't even quiet about it."</p>

<p>I agree with this as well. And she did say "sub-species" which is completely accurate. I see it here all the time. In fact, I've posted various anecdotes about the sub-species -- as my non-Catholic Zoosergirl attends one of "those" Catholic high schools. And has thrived there, I may add, because of the rest of the population, which is as appalled by the sub-species as we are.</p>

<p>atomom -
"What is the purpose of private school? Being with people who share your values/outlook."</p>

<p>In our case, my son is attending a private uni for the education that it offers and the variety of values and outlooks. Mileage may vary the the particular private school, of course.</p>

<p>Private schools don't have to let in everyone--that's my point. Yes, I agree that schools are all for education, and it is easier to get a good education when you're surrounded by the right kind of people with the same goals.</p>

<p>
[quote]
He chased the perp and got the purse back.

[/quote]
Chivalry isn't dead! He was certainly gallant, NSM. But if he was a step too slow, and the cops had to take over the chase, wouldn't the perp's race be relevant?</p>

<p>Personally, if someone is pointing a gun at me, I'm not worrying about his racial motivations. I agree that warning the OP about BLACK gun-carrying students reflects her racism.</p>

<p>
[quote]
people with the same goals

[/quote]
That was our main criterion, atomom. And it worked out to be much, much more diverse than our hometown.</p>

<p>cgm... I think they were white, but it is not clear to me it would have been an issue otherwise.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/hrt-hchitandrun220070215123733,0,1089920.photo%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/hrt-hchitandrun220070215123733,0,1089920.photo&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://www.courant.com/media/photo/2007-02/27936346.jpg%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.courant.com/media/photo/2007-02/27936346.jpg&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>"Investigators say Alvino was driving and Hall was his front-seat passenger when their vehicle struck UConn student Carlee Wines, 19, of Manalapan."</p>

<p>And of course, this could be a different case from the one you just read about. Sadly, it's not the rarest event in the world.</p>

<p>My point was that no mention of race, but if the culprits had been black, who wnats to bet race would be in the article</p>

<p>just a thought</p>

<p>"My point was that no mention of race, but if the culprits had been black, who wnats to bet race would be in the article"</p>

<p>You'd lose that bet. The absence of the race of suspects is so rarely present as to be laughable.</p>