Rejection Etiquette

<p>D has decided to earn a few karma points by sending in her Decline-to-Attend forms to a couple of schools right away so people there can get off the waitlist. Our assumption is that it would be a good thing for her to contact the teacher with whom she would have been working at those schools and let them know... is there any reason not to do so?</p>

<p>My kids did the same thing. A short note thanking the instrumental teacher who took the time and/or showed interest in them, emphasizing that it was a difficult decision, and that they hope paths have an opportunity to cross again someday…</p>

<p>Didn’t get much feedback. S later ran into one of the teachers he turned down. Said teacher introduced S to several colleagues as “the one that got away” and was quite friendly. Always good to keep bridges intact.</p>

<p>Didn’t think about this, but you’re right. There are a couple of schools that we know are a no go. If it might help someone else relieve his stress, why not let the schools know sooner rather than later? I’m going to get on this. Thanks!</p>

<p>My daughter was able to do all her declines via email. This allowed her to write very nice notes to the admissions offices and they were all very kind–they do like to know where the kids decide.</p>

<p>My D sent them as soon as she committed, especially to BoCo. A friend of hers really loved the place and had been accepted but not offered enough money. My girl hoped that throwing her offer back in the pot might help her friend negotiate a better package. I don’t know if that’s how it actually worked, but the friend got enough to allow her attend there so it clearly didn’t hurt.</p>

<p>Last year, my son was waitlisted at Eastman and when he decided he would attend Crane no matter what he sent an email to both admissions and to his prospective prof. He got an emai, back from the prof. asking him to please reconsider getting off the waitlist and told him that the choice for the one seat he had to give that year was hair close and he really thought the accepted student would not attend. That’s as strange a story as I’ve ever heard.</p>

<p>If you’re sure you will be declining an offer, I think this is the right thing to do. Congratulations for thinking of others in need of some resolution to this process. Once we learn all of our options (still waiting on four schools on April 2!) we’ll make a decision in a short time and send notes to the runners-up.</p>

<p>I agree it is good thing to do. First of all, for those on the waitlist (my S just did this in turning down a tough to get into summer program he decided not to do, so others could get in) it may mean they will hear sooner and not assume they didn’t get in.</p>

<p>Secondly, it never hurts to be polite to the teachers and even administrators. One thing I have learned is how small the music world is, and I am also learning that what students do in programs have unexpected consequences, both good and bad, in terms of how they relate to teachers and others they come across. You never know when that teacher might be in the position to help someone down the road, or maybe be looking for someone to join the faculty down the road or whatnot…and I know of young musicians, who were difficult to deal with, who now out in the ‘real world’ are finding that though they are skilled musicians, with a lot to offer, their reputation is hurting them in trying to find gigs and positions.</p>

<p>Thanks, everyone, for your quick responses!</p>

<p>Musicprnt is right. The music world is VERY small (son can’t get over how small!). It is always good to be be solicitous and polite in every dealing with administrators, teachers, etc., since chances are good, you’ll run into them again.</p>

<p>Should we also initiate contact with the teachers at the school we will be going ?
Is it odd not to contact the teacher ? Should we wait to know if we get the scholarship first, or can it actually help (or hurt since they’ll know they don’t at all have to “buy” you -I wish I had a better word- ) to get a better scholarhsip to contact the teacher, tell him/her how thrilled we are, that the schools is our first choice, ect… ?</p>

<p>I suppose I am quite guileless like McSon but he did exchange excited emails with his imminent prof/dept. head prior to the final scholarship process without any qualms from me. (I’d counseled him throughout to let his personal sense of integrity inform his decisions and to just be genuine.) We also sent our regrets early to other schools, including a particular prof that he’d been quite taken with and would have loved to work with. Which was likely a good thing, since we now know that said prof is well known to/possibly pals with the dept head of the school he chose and sometimes works with them (eg. composing).</p>

<p>Bassplayer08,</p>

<p>I do not think a teacher would find it odd if you did not contact them, but there is usually no harm in doing so. Some will chat with you on the phone if they have a moment, some prefer email and some are pretty hard to reach at all. Don’t be offended if it takes a while for them to respond, or if their answer is fairly short - many are quite busy between teaching and performing, particularly this time of year with juries coming up, students trying to fit in recitals before the end of the year, and final exams not far away.</p>

<p>If the financial aid numbers will have an influence on your decision, I would suggest waiting until you have all of the offers on the table (hopefully in the next week or two) before initiating the contact. Not so much from the viewpoint that it could hurt your bargaining position, but rather because the conversation may be very different before you have all the aid numbers than afterward. If it turns out that your first choice school has given you the best aid package, then you can contact the teacher without having to talk about money at all. If you want to ask a school for more aid and you already have a studio assignment at that school, it would be a good idea to let the teacher know, but you need to know what the initial offers are before doing so. Sometimes the teacher is in a position to help, sometimes not, but they can’t help you if they don’t know what you are doing. If you have definitely decided not to attend any of the schools that have accepted you, then it is courteous to thank the teacher and let them know that you will not attend. Please inform the admissions office as well because it may help another student get off a waiting list or get a better financial aid offer.</p>

<p>Thank you BassDad. Do teachers give students something to work on in preparation of the first lesson, or should students ask for this ? Is it appropriate for one to ask for feedback at the schools one was accepted but won’t go to, to know what they didn’t like, possibly what they liked and which aspects should one work on ?
I’m sorry I should probably have created a thread or bumped an old one for this.</p>

<p>Bassplayer08: I think that it would be appropriate to ask your future teacher if there is anything that they would like you to work on over the next few months. Some will be very directive (and don’t need to be asked) and others will not have anything to say, particularly if they believe that their role only begins when school begins. I am interested in hearing from the veteran parents about what percentage of teachers fell into each category. </p>

<p>If you are planning on auditioning for orchestra (I can’t recall if you are classical bass or jazz), then at minimum, you should prepare your orchestral excerpts and whatever else is required for your school’s orchestral audition. Usually that material becomes available over the summer.</p>

<p>I would be disinclined to ask the rejected teachers for feedback unless you had established the sort of relationship where that felt appropriate. This obviously will vary from situation to situation. If you had two or three lessons with the teacher, got along well with them, had done a couple of summer programs with them, know that they auditioned only three people for their studio, and sense that they are the type of person that wants to help students regardless of whether or not the student is their own, then I can’t see any harm in asking the rejected teacher for feedback. </p>

<p>In many cases, with the more competitive instruments and more competitive schools, teachers hear hundreds of auditions (think of five days of 7 hours of 6 per hour and you have 210 auditions) and the teachers: a) would not possibly have the time to give feedback to each student; and b) could not have the memory to recall enough about each of the hundreds of auditions to give meaningful feedback two months after the audition. I realize that with bass being much less competitive, no bass teacher hears nearly that many auditions and at some schools, the bass teacher may only have heard a handful of auditioning students. So the answer to your question is somewhat instrument-specific and school-specific. You would probably have a better chance of getting feedback from rejected teachers than would a violinist that applied to Juilliard, NEC, Peabody, and Indiana.</p>

<p>You can always ask for feedback from an audition. You may not always get a response.</p>

<p>Depending on the school, studio assignments may have already been made or they may still be in the works right up until the start of the semester. Once you are certain of the school you will attend and get assigned to a specific studio, then you can contact the teacher if you like to ask whether there is anything they would like you to prepare for the first lesson. This could make a favorable impression on the teacher, because not everyone thinks to do this. Some schools send out a packet of music that they expect you to have ready for seating auditions, which are held either in the few days before classes start, or else during the first week of classes.</p>

<p>Many schools have an orientation period for incoming first year students that ranges from a couple of days to a week before the start of classes. This gives them time to learn where things are on campus, get their student ID, buy books and supplies, meet with their academic adviser to discuss their class schedule and similar tasks. For music majors, it could also involve getting assigned a storage space for your instrument, taking placement tests for music theory and/or language classes, and holding seating auditions for various large ensembles. International students may have the opportunity to arrive even a day or two earlier than that. This orientation period would normally be when the student first meets with the teacher to go over anything that needs to get done before the first lesson.</p>

<p>Thanks violindad and BassDad. I had no idea that students actually had to audition for orchestra at school thanks !!! For sure I need to enquire and start getting ready. I suppose positions like principal and assistant-principale are only for upperclassmen ?</p>

<p>OK ! I wasn’t sure if feedback was only for people who got rejected or if I could also ask. I’ll try. I did recorded auditions for most schools so maybe they’ll be nice enough to listen a bit of it again if they have forgotten me.</p>

<p>Again, it depends on the school. Larger schools can have more than one orchestra, so the auditions may be to determine which group you play in as well as where you sit within your section. Some schools have rotating sections, so that more students can get the experience of being principal or assistant principal in their section. Some go as far as moving players from seat to seat for each major piece in the same concert, although that seems more common with woodwinds than strings. Some schools reserve principal and assistant principal seats for upperclassmen, and some give them to whoever turns in the best audition.</p>

<p>I am not aware of any schools that offer feedback to students that were rejected, but that might be more of an indication of my lack of knowledge than of the reality out there. Does anyone know of schools that routinely do this? Or is it (as I would expect) mostly a teacher decision as to whether to provide feedback? </p>

<p>I would think that if a teacher or school routinely offers feedback to students that are rejected, then they would probably offer it to those who are accepted, as well.</p>

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<p>Both my kiddo at state school and my kiddo at conservatory have to audition every semester. There are differences, though. My D earns a spot in the orchestra and remains there for the whole semester - which is usually only 2 concerts or so. My S’s school rotates positions and concerts. There are many more concerts per semester, but he won’t play in all of them. He is in his last year of grad school, and has been principal for many, but not all, concerts this year. Principal spots do tend to go to the grad students, though. (At both schools).</p>

<p>(My point, in case I have muddled things, is that semester auditions are common, but each school handles the results differently.)</p>