Relationships and Phds

Parents Forum
1

My son is in his freshman year and is already very serious about a young woman at his college. They are already talking about their future together.

I know it’s early yet and anything can happen, but he wants to go on for a Phd as does she. Anyone out there have experience with dealing with couples both going for Phds?

Assuming they stay together (big assumption I know), and knowing that the acceptance rates for Phd programs are normally under 10%, my guess is that they would probably not end up in the same city since they would both need to cast their nets wide to land a Phd program spot. That being the case they would need to carry on a long distance relationship for 6-8 years after college.

That doesn’t sound like a recipe for a successful relationship.

Thoughts?

2

Butt out and keep your mouth shut.

I know couples who can’t make a 20 mile commute work, and those who successfully maintain marriages with two households thousands of miles apart.

You can’t win on this one so back off IMHO.

3

Your son is a freshman. I would not worry about this - let things happen or not happen on their own.

4

I wouldn’t worry about it. My dh got his PhD at Caltech, while I was getting a Master of Architecture at Columbia. I also had another gap year where I was traveling around the country and he was still a senior in college. It was a long four years. But 40 years later it seems like a drop in the bucket. We saw each other for all the holidays and I joined him for the summers. One they are writing dissertations they may have some flexibility.

I worry about my son. He’s about to be a Navy Officer, his longtime girlfriend is working on her PhD. I know his first job is likely to be on an aircraft carrier somewhere, but after that he could be anywhere.

At any rate freshman romances rarely last.

5

Don’t borrow trouble from the future. Today has more than enough of its own.

6

@Massmomm haha, I like that saying!

I agree and of course we have to worry about our kids, but you can’t predict the future especially when it comes to relationships! Just try to go with the flow :slight_smile:

7

IF they are still together 4 years later and IF they do well in school and IF they still want to do PhDs then they will have to decide for themselves at that time.

BTW I married my freshman sweetheart after we graduated and we found jobs in the same area.

8

The likelihood that they stay together for the next three years, that they both decide to pursue PhDs, and that they are both accepted into PhD programs they want to attend . . . probably adds up to less likely than that they stay together for another x years after all that happens.

So, yes, it’s not that likely that they have a future together if those are really their plans. Don’t tell them that; let them find out for themselves. Also, give them the opportunity to make different choices if the relationship is really important to them.

For some examples:

I am friends with a youngish couple who started dating in college. They both wanted to be English professors. One got his PhD at a top-5 program. The other got her PhD at a second-tier public university in the same city as the first one’s prestigious program. The one with the prestigious degree has tenure at a mid-level public university. (In that field, any kind of tenured position is fabulous.) The other is a part-time contract instructor at a small Catholic college in the same city. They are wonderful people, they have three great kids, and they are very, very happy.

My wife and I were friends in college, but didn’t get involved romantically until just after I graduated. I was a year ahead of her, and headed to law school in California. We wrote lots of letters that year. When she graduated, she deferred any graduate school plans, moved to California, and started looking for jobs. A year later, she applied to the Kennedy School and was accepted, but I got a job offer I couldn’t refuse in Washington, and she decided not to go to the Kennedy School. Instead, when I went to Washington, she went to law school in Philadelphia, notwithstanding that she had established California residency and could have gone to Berkeley practically for free. After a couple of years in Washington, I moved to Philadelphia and we got married. At the time, we were planning to move back to California when she finished law school – she spent the summer before our wedding working in San Francisco – but then she changed her mind about what she wanted to do, and ended up accepting a job in Philly, where we have lived happily ever after.

When she was in college, my daughter was close to a PhD student at her university, which was in Chicago.The PhD student was involved with a guy she had met in college. For a few years, they lived about 1,000 miles apart, she in Chicago and he near Boston. Then he got accepted into the Iowa MFA program. At that point, she had basically finished her coursework and was working on her thesis, so they got married, and she could live in Iowa City 4-5 days a week and come to Chicago for a couple of days a week. There were a couple of years in there where she was teaching someplace else every semester, and he taught at a boarding school in New England, but she finally got a tenure track job at a fine university, and he got hired as a writing instructor there.

In other words – people can make things work with some flexibility, some compromises, and a willingness to make some career sacrifices for the relationship. That’s OK.

9

@artie1 It partly depends on the field that each wants to pursue. If they are in different majors, there is no reason why they shouldn’t be able to get into appropriate graduate programs in the same geographical region. Even if it’s the same major, it’s not impossible. However, if they both pursue academic careers, then matching in the same area is a lot tougher than if one is pursuing academia and the other is employed in the private sector. That said, I know many academic couples who got together in grad school and made it work.

I agree with previous posters, though, it’s too early to be thinking about this.

10

I met my husband at college freshman orientation. We got married between junior and senior year of college. He went straight on to grad school and got a PhD. I followed him, worked for a year then got a Master’s Degree. When I graduated and got a job he was ABD (all but dissertation) so he followed me to another city 8 hours drive away and commuted back and forth to meet with his prof. One year he was even a TA, teaching classes in that other city and just coming home on weekends. We made it work.

11

Another vote for the “don’t get ahead of yourself with the 'what-if’s”.

While long term and long distance relationships are doable (one of my DS’s met his gf freshman year of college, began dating senior year, and they maintained the relationship long distance while she was in grad school and he was working, many states away. She will be finishing up and has accepted a job near him… that starts in several months. Its doable, but its their choice, not yours.

12

We had a plan. I met my future wife when we were both in PhD programs in different fields. So we would only have a problem once we graduated and moved into the job market.

Although this doesn’t apply to a first-year undergraduate who thinks he may have found his mate, I wouldn’t let the “future PhD” aspect get in the way of a nice romantic relationship. One that might or might not last for another month, or 6 months, or year, etc. Not only do relationships evolve and usually dissolve, but so do life plans. Let things happen.

13

And then when they both get their PhDs from the same institution, then they’ll have the so-called two-body program and they’ll have to find tenure-track positions in the same institution, or end up at different places. That being the case they would need to carry on a long distance relationship for decades. That doesn’t sound like a recipe for a successful relationship.

:wink:

14

@SlitheyTove Indeed, and this is why there are very few dual-PhD marriages in academia. Finding equally satisfactory academic appointments for both spouses is extremely difficult, or requires real compromises on career opportunities for one or the other. However, if only one has an academic career (that was true of my marriage), or perhaps neither ends up in an academic career, there are many alternatives. Chemists, engineers, computer scientists, statisticians, financial specialists, etc., work in many industries.

15

We know a couple who met in grad school. She got her PhD first. She wanted to stay near him so accepted a post doc in Boston while he was still in NY. After they got married, he had to follow his advisors to Germany or start all over again so they moved to Germany where she is doing more post doc work.

Folks can make things work if it matters enough to both but freshman year is WAY too early for parents’ concern.

16

We have friends who have managed to have a shared professorship at various institutions. They were more interested in teaching than doing research. They definitely had to make some compromised in the quality of the institutions where they worked. (She was offered tenure at Vassar, he wasn’t.)

Many of the other two Phd. families I’ve known one person of the couple has had to make compromises.

OTOH, I know quite a few who’ve been very successful. Here in the NYC area there are a lot of places where you can do medical research, so you don’t have to be at the same institution.

17

My freshman girlfriend was the “one”
Until we broke up.

18

You’re a parent a parent and have gained wisdom that your child doesn’t have. It’s your obligation and right to tell him what you think,

AND THEN butt out!

It may not be directly applicable, but I had a talk with my daughter about this. She was/is applying to a PhD program and had/has a boyfriend, who, while not going for his PhD, does have a a job with a very prestigious company, and is disinclined to move wherever she ends up, although he certainly could.

I basically said that if they were to marry, the marriage comes first and someone needs to compromise. If they are not, then she must pursue her own dreams, and hope they align somehow. My spouse and I did the former. We compromised on grad school because we were married, and the marriage was more important- and we have done great!

But my daughter’s dreams did not align with her boyfriend’s. She’ll (probably) be leaving and moving to the opposite coast. That’s the way it goes. But I think our talk provided her with the clarity she needed to make the move.

19

People make different choices. I know two sisters really well, one a 2012 college graduate, and one 2013. They were both applying to different sorts of PhD programs this season. The 2012 sister has had the same boyfriend for six years. He moved from the Bay Area (where he grew up) to the East Coast (where she was living) after she returned from a one-year fellowship in Europe. She is something of an academic star, and had her pick of many top programs in her field, but none of the ones that fit her best were less than 1,000 miles from the boyfriend. She will be spending the next 6-8 years in the Bay Area, and he’s in the East. He has a great job he is loathe to leave. She will have a meaningful shot at an actual academic career. Too bad. Maybe it will work out for them – they both hope it will, but not enough to change their trajectories right now. The 2013 sister had fewer choices, but less pressure, too, and was able to choose a program that will let her stay more or less where she is, and move in with her boyfriend. Such is life.

I talked about my own story earlier. I didn’t mention the funniest part: One of the main reasons I chose a graduate school in California was because I was sad about my inability to start a relationship with the woman on whom I had had a crush for a couple of years, but who had never responded to any kind of courtship. I could have stayed right where I was (and she was), but I wanted to get as far away from her as I could, and start over in a new place. That was 39 years ago last week. We have been a couple roughly 38 years and 11 months, albeit with meaningful stretches of not living in the same place.

Anyway, as everyone says, the OP can start worrying about this in maybe 2-1/2 years.

20

Wife and I met in college and were married a year after graduation. 6 years later I went back for a PhD, and a year after that she enrolled in law school. Our respective universities were a hundred miles apart. It was a long distance marriage during the week and she came home on the weekends. We made it work. We finished our respective grad studies the same year but not the same month. She finished 6 months a ahead of me - PhD programs being more open-ended than law schools are.

She took her first attorney job in a city a 500 miles away where there were a lot of companies that might employ me. And when I finished up 6 months later I joined her there and we were finally back together. 33 years later we are still together.

If you are both willing to work at it and to compromise, you can make it work.