Religious values

<p>Sheed-- we were discussing Islam is religious studies the other day. I was wondering if you agreed with our conclusion that the violence in the Middle East is attributed to the culture, as opposed to the peaceful religion of Islam. We thought that the people in the Middle East have grown so accustomed to the figting and need to defend their religion, and have interpreted the Koran to mean that they have the right and the obligation to defend themselves against any threatening force, including US foreign poilicy...</p>

<p>Is this analysis correct? I can't really see any reason why it wouldn't be, as Islam itself is indeed very similar to all the other major world religions (Christianity, Judaism) in that it stresses peace, and the violence should be separated from the religion...</p>

<p>Yes, that analysis is partly true. Islam defnitely preaches peace and Muslims are in essence supposed to be peaceful people with smiles on their faces. Te word Islam actually comes of the root word Salam which is "peace" in arabic. The main reason many people are fighting in the Middle East is that they think America wants to completely wipe out the religion of Islam. They are first and foremost ****ed off that America aids Israel in everything (nothing personally against them). ack in the day when the UN passed a resolution trying to give back Israel to the Paletinins, the U.S. being part of the security council, shot it down even though there was an overwhellming majority behind the giving back of Palestine, it didn't go through because of America. And after the Palestinians tried fighting back for their land and then Egypt and Syria got involved and all that, America supported Israel with weapons and all the power they needed to smash all opposition. </p>

<p>All in all, the people of the Middle East hate America because they are afraid the U.S. will support Israel if they wanted to take over another country. And with Israelis being Jewish, it just adds a lot more tension. Then the Iraq war comes about and everyone starts thinking, "Am I next?" "Are my people next?" I mean, America didnt attack North Korea or Cuba and they have terrible leaders. North Korea definitely had weapons of Mass Destruction yet America has not touched them. So, the Muslims are afraid that America wants to rid the world of the mindset of Islam and have spread many rumors about them talking about "Radical" Muslims "terrorists" and how Muslims treat their women badly (which is entirely false, anything you heard of women being treated badly is entirely culture and nothing to do with the religion).</p>

<p>Well, I am tired of writing, so there is my opinion.</p>

<p>Yes, we also discussed the opression of women in Islamic countries. We came to the conclusion that back in the days before Islam had spread to the peoples in the Middle East, the culture of that era was in support of women inferiority. When Islam spread, the native peoples continued to hold on to their native cultures while mebracing Islam. So, the opression of women was due to the ancient culture of that region, not of Islam.</p>

<p>I'm thinking this analysis is also correct in that it agrees with your last post in that you said:</p>

<p>"anything you heard of women being treated badly is entirely culture and nothing to do with the religion"</p>

<p>On the woman issues thing, "The heart of Islam" by Nasr talks about the hat and veil were part of the Ottoman and Persian empires and not part of Islam. It contrasted it to how all women use to wear hats in Christian churches. It also said some highly educated women are deciding to continue wearing their hats and veils. I actually talked to a Muslim girl today who confirmed this.
It also talked about how Westerners see women as being the household and we think it is horrible, but that is only because we see raising the kids as demeaning. To them, it is very important. Men are suppose to provide for the family, and so if a wife is wealthy, she can spend her money however she wants.
As far as the wars go, Islam started as a political and a religious movement, and they converted all those who attacked them, and then had the 2 empires, Persian and Ottoman. It wasnt until later, when the Europeans (Napolean) invaded Egypt that they needed to start thinking about war. And war is just a small group of extremists, not the vast majority.</p>

<p>I thought this last point of Nasr was really good. In America after Sept 11, we started treating Muslims poorly, and thought they had bombs. During the Gulf War (1991), Christians, Jews and other religions were not treated badly in Iraq, where they could be expected as going to drop bombs.
These ideas expressed as Nasr, I am not trying to take credit for them.
I am writing a paper now on Islam but it is on the school of Mutazili and its ability to handle all the crisis facing Islam.</p>

<p>Nasr, must have been wrong when explaining that hat/veil is not part of Islam. Wearing a scarf IS a part of Islam, and there are many many ways to prove this in Islam, Muslim women are supposed to dress in modesty... I can get into this later if you want to hear more.</p>

<p>I prefer to refer to myself as simply "nonreligious," but if I had to categorize myself, then I would probably say atheist.</p>

<p>Maybe the veils but not the hats. I dont have perfect memory. My cousin sent me this randomly today.
: "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (I Corinthians 14:34-35)
Just interesting, the East is just lagging behind the west by a couple hundred years.</p>

<p>mattd1688, I believe Corinthians was written by Paul, and not spoken by Jesus... I know that many Christians also interpret that in a cultural light, because there was unrest in the communities about the already radical ideals Christ introduced. There is proof to support the fact that women held leadership positions in the church from the beginning.</p>

<p>i guess atheist but mostly im apathetic.. religion has no role in my life whatsoever</p>

<p>Islam is not a religion of peace. Just like Christianity is not a religion of peace.</p>

<p>as i became smarter, as my knowedge accumulated, my realtionship with God was becoming difficult...then i realize how this world has gone foul intellectually with the rise of science. atheists all over the place with their usual base discoveries. </p>

<p>the notion that smart people are atheistic and dumb people are superstitiously religious is FALSE. not to mention that i am well over ten times more intelligent and knowledgeable and accute than an atheistic intellectual (and yes, i know ur evolutionary, big bang theories and perhaps more atheistic crap extended all the way), christianity is EXTREMELY complicated. the nature of God (his contrast of wrath and love) is so impossible to figure out...and the religion of christianity is very long and complicated... </p>

<p>so, back to my subject. i wish to overturn evolution all those other science FICTION fairy tales with my magestic intellectual annalysis of all knowledge, spirit...with the help of God's wisdom</p>

<p>islam and christianity may have a gory past, but these religions were not mere religions, they encompassed the entire culture, society, intellect, government... even if isalm is violent, u should not dismiss it merely for that reason. it is too important, too significant..</p>

<p>I dismiss it in the same sense I dismiss every religion as not true. However it's quite obvious that Islam and Christianity has had a very large impact on many things in the past that still affect us today. Defining them both as "important" though is not something I would agree with.</p>

<p>I just vomited in my mouth from reading your joke of a post on the other page.</p>

<p>HueyFreeman...can you please prove to me why Islam is a violent religion? Do not talk to me about wars between countries or tribes...tell me from the Kor'an or the sayings of the prophet Muhammed that said anything against peace and for violence.</p>

<p>u say islam is violent; then what do u call science????? science created the hydrogen bomb, it facilitated the damn global warming that going to kill us all more than anything.</p>

<p>to tell u the truth, the days of spanish religious atrocities in europe during 16th century is much more glamorous and MORAL than german atrocities in ww2, driven by atheism.</p>

<p>Sheed, Muslims are required to kill me according to the Quran. It makes allowances for other believers, but not for pagans.</p>

<p>Not to say any other religion is better, but I think Muslims are the only ones mandated to kill.</p>

<p>I want to ask everyone a question right now; lets get past the "violence" in "religion" and "science" because it exists in both because (fyi) religion and science exist on this planet togeather.</p>

<p>here's my question; are you SURE where you're going when you die? Athiests, are you SURE that there is no God. Are you 100%? Religious people, are you SURE there is a God? Are you 100%? Why? </p>

<p>This is why I'm agnostic; I'm not sure. No one can be sure. Actually (and this might sound a bit harsh and like I'm questioning everyone's faith and beliefs) but I kinda think that most everyone is an agnostic. As an agnostic, you can still study a religion. As an agnostic, you can still study the "big bang" theory and etc. </p>

<p>I just want to know, both athiests and religious God believers alike; how can you be so sure of each other that you can really, seriously bash other people's beliefs?</p>

<p>yes, what is more terrifying than thinking that one day u will cease to exist that what u have, ur souls, ur mind, everything will be lost and u will be no more. boy, i sure would hate to be atheist.</p>

<p>Must...oppose evil corrupted agnostics to the last breath.....<em>draws yugioh card</em> GOD OF THE...err...HEART OF GOD CARDS! Annihilate the heathens!</p>

<p>i draw my sword for the service of the betterment of mankind, of GOD.</p>