<p>Okay everybody, let’s pack up- the pity party for POIH is over.</p>
<p>thumper:</p>
<p>Actually CT has an accelerated program for teacher certification called the ARC.
[Alternate</a> Route To Teacher Certification](<a href=“http://www.ctdhe.org/ARC/default.htm]Alternate”>http://www.ctdhe.org/ARC/default.htm)</p>
<p>You just need a bachelor’s degree and a major in the subject you plan to teach.</p>
<p>It is a 9 week summer program and very popular with mid-career professionals. There is no problem getting a position with the ARC if you teach a subject in high demand. We live in the town with the best public high school in CT and a number of the teachers in math and science came to teaching through the ARC program.</p>
<p>Yes, real estate is expensive in Fairfield County but still significantly cheaper than the Bay Area, even for the most expensive towns.</p>
<p>I know for a fact that being nearby was a huge boost to our D’s confidence during her first year at MIT. Most students were superstars in high school and now struggle just to understand the p-sets. The pace at MIT is extremely intense and emotional support is essential. My D’s roommate was from Florida and was crying on the phone every night with her parents. She ended leaving by Thanskgiving. Frankly, my wife and I were very much the helicopter parents during that first transition year. Sometimes, just the knowledge that she could jump on a train and sleep in her bed a few hours later made a world of difference. Now our D is well adjusted and lives in a sorority and mostly visits during holidays. Would she have been able to handle the pressure had we still lived in California? Probably, but it would have been much tougher emotionally and she would have felt very lonely.</p>
<p>POIH: </p>
<p>I am sorry if this had been suggested before since I had to skim through pg 13 -19 of this thread. </p>
<p>Is it a possible solution for your wife to relocate first - to see if she can find a job, miss her friends, d may change her mind about MIT and wants to transfer etc etc ? You can evaluate the situation after 1 year ? </p>
<p>I agree with others that suggest therapy for your wife to deal with her insecurities. </p>
<p>I do not think your family is dysfunctional and that your daughter is stifled by what your described. Our d chose to move back home to be with us after spending a year in the dorm when we moved into the same city. She said she prefers her own room and own bathroom. We are planning to spend winters in California in the near future and she has expressed strong interest in moving with us. She is always rather attached to us - a loving, caring child. I don’t think she is not growing up right, she has proven to be quite competent and responsible in many ways. She took care of the house when we go on extended trips, like shoveling snow (turned down the offer of having snow removal service) and paying the utility bills. She has expressed interest in sharing a house with some friends in her final year and we are supportive, even though it means we have to pay more. I think there are different reasons why kids do not want to far far away from their parents during the college years.</p>
<p>Okay- less than 24 hours since the OP and over 280 posts, mine was pages ago. Several things have come out. First, let me point out a pet peeve of mine- lumping all Asians together (my inlaws are Indian). India is part of Asia, but this sounds like a Korean or Chinese, not an Indian, lifestyle to me. I note good points from many and culturally sensitive ones from hyeonjlee.</p>
<p>This is an important issue or the OP wouldn’t have presented his case to us. I repeat my advice for his wife to get counseling, so many red flags for her issues. The poor child has never been able to experience anything her parents haven’t- the vacationing in cities she has had trips to has taken away all of her chances to be her own person independent of her parents. She can’t return to her childhood home if her parents aren’t there. Your D can use the phone and internet for immediate comfort from you regardless of where she is. You have marital and parenting problems, it is too late for you to never have married and come to the US, the best you can do is follow up on your cry for help (this thread). </p>
<p>I see your D set up for failure in college. She will not be able to meet both her mother’s and her college’s demands. </p>
<p>Now is the time for the OP to insist that his wife get counseling on her decisions. I’m sure in your location you can find competant people of your ethnic group so they can understand where she is coming from culturally and also have a chance of her listening to their advice. I’m talking about a college trained professional, someone with a degree in some kind of counseling/therapy, etc. </p>
<p>Please go ahead this week and start finding local counseling. You now have had many strangers who reinforce the feeling you have that something needs to be done. It can only help, and sooner is better than later- there is time now before bridges are burned regarding colleges and relocation. Best of luck to you.</p>
<p>NSM- clearly you don’t see it as insulting or you would not have done it. The problem, sometimes, with boards like this is that we can’t catch the intonation. From some of your “pure words”, it is within the realm of possibility to read them as somewhat harsh and unfeeling. Not that that is your intention. </p>
<p>My point was that when trying to convince a reluctant person, it’s often better to engage them in the process of discovery that they may need help, rather than just blatantly telling them so. Few people get to effective therapy by being pushed. </p>
<p>While the OP is probably affluent- he is not of the American culture. He is more likely from a culture that does not appreciate the value of therapy the way affluent Americans do. For him to have gotten on a board like this to reveal personal info could be a pretty big step in the right direction, for him. To potentially shut him down by overdoing the “go to a therapist” notion might not be helpful. This is what I meant by “badgering.” Perhaps not the best choice of words.</p>
<p>"NSM- clearly you don’t see it as insulting or you would not have done it. The problem, sometimes, with boards like this is that we can’t catch the intonation. From some of your “pure words”, it is within the realm of possibility to read them as somewhat harsh and unfeeling. Not that that is your intention. </p>
<p>My point was that when trying to convince a reluctant person, it’s often better to engage them in the process of discovery that they may need help, rather than just blatantly telling them so. Few people get to effective therapy by being pushed.
"</p>
<p>I can’t push the OP into therapy. I don’t even know him. I can, though, suggest that he get therapy to help him with his painful concerns. Perhaps if enough people suggest that or if his emotional pain becomes unbearable, he’ll try therapy. In doing that, he’ll be very similar to how most people approach therapy, especially when they erroneously think that therapy is something shameful. They don’t try it until they are in excruciating pain or until they can think of no other alternatives.</p>
<p>I know that some people here have suggested that his wife needs therapy. That may be true, but from what the OP has posted, she doesn’t seem to be in emotional pain, just angry at him for indicating he may back out of the plans to move East. Since the OP, however, is in touch with his pain and concerns that the move may not be a good idea, he is the one who could benefit from therapy.</p>
<p>My doctor of the past 13 years is from China and is an only child. She came here with her husband for his graduate program and they ended up staying b/c of his fantastic job here. </p>
<p>Her parents moved here from China to be near her and their only grandchild. My dr. goes to her mother’s home for lunch every day. They used to all live together, though now each family has their own house. The grandparents have helped to raise the grandchild. They do not speak English and their lives pretty much revolve around their little family world. </p>
<p>It does not seem strange to them, in relation to their own culture and history.</p>
<p>"Her parents moved here from China to be near her and their only grandchild. My dr. goes to her mother’s home for lunch every day. They used to all live together, though now each family has their own house. The grandparents have helped to raise the grandchild. They do not speak English and their lives pretty much revolve around their little family world. "</p>
<p>That makes sense. She’s their only child, and by moving her, the parents will be able to maintain a close relationship with her and their grandkids. That’s similar to what some Americans do when they move near their kids after they retire.</p>
<p>I think that those kind of situations, however, are very different from moving across country to be near one’s offspring who is in college.</p>
<p>POIH had a post a few pages back where he said that his daughter’s expectation was that the family would move so they would be nearby, no matter where she went to college. Those were her expectations when she chose schools and applied. And, a year or two ago, the family’s finances would have been able to handle this.</p>
<p>It’s now 2009, and the economy has changed. We’ve seen so, so many students who until last year were being told that they could afford to go anywhere they could get in, their parents had investments and savings to cover the COA for any school. And now those same students are being told by their parents that unfortunately, they’ll need to rein in their expectations.</p>
<p>I don’t see why POIH’s daughter can’t be told something similar. She’s still incredibly fortunate: her family has enough money to send her to some pretty amazing schools. She’ll just have to go there by herself.</p>
<p>“I don’t see why POIH’s daughter can’t be told something similar. She’s still incredibly fortunate: her family has enough money to send her to some pretty amazing schools. She’ll just have to go there by herself.”</p>
<p>Or she could stay in Calif. (even if it means taking a gap year) and go to one of the excellent colleges near where her parents live.</p>
<p>crossposted- this comes before # 289. Keep being straightforward and “blunt” NSM. Best to say what you mean and not waste time being obtuse. Hints are fine when you have instant face to face contact, but on a forum you can’t read faces to see if the person understands vague suggestions. The “process of discovery” doesn’t work for many people- too much meandering without coming to the point. People shouldn’t worry about being insulted by absolute strangers with minimal knowledge of them on this forum.</p>
<p>OP asked for help- he now knows enough of us see a problem as he does and now he needs real help, not just our nonprofessional discussions.</p>
<p>cellardweller:
This is the main advantage of having parents nearby and I hope the OP and his wife will offer their home as a refuge rather than burden their daughter with obligations to visit.</p>
<p>Northstarmom,
I think your advice to seek counseling is well-intentioned, but in some of your posts you make assumptions beyond what we could possibly know about the OP and his family. If I were him, I would take offense at statements like these:
“I think that both you and your wife are using your D as an excuse to avoid looking at the difficulties in your own marital relationship.”
“Sorry, but your wife’s planning to move across the country to be with her college student daughter whether or not you choose to go is a big red flag that your wife isn’t very committed to the marriage.”
“If your wife prefers that kind of existence to living with her husband, than at best, your marriage is just a shell.”
There’s nothing wrong with suggesting counseling, and while I agree it might help I am aware that therapy is a very American approach to problem-solving and not equally respected in all cultures (I am not talking about shame or embarrassment here.) But I want to point out that you seem to be stating as fact that his marriage is in trouble, he is headed for divorce, etc., and I think that’s way beyond what he has said or what is evident from his posts, and I do not reach the same conclusions as you. </p>
<p>From what POIH has said, it seems that his daughter has successfully figured out how to manage both her parents over the years, so I’m inclined to be less worried about her and more concerned how OP will be able to handle the finances and keep the peace in his family.</p>
<p>Au contraire- I see no evidence that the OP is ready to undertake counseling. It also seems that his wife is unlikely to do so, or his daughter, given as NSM points out, they feel no pain. </p>
<p>I come at this from a different angle- my background is in ministry- where “blunt” talk is often harmful to those who are in a delicate position. </p>
<p>I don’t disagree that counseling would be helpful, if the participants here are willing. My concern is that the participants, including the OP, are not yet willing. The OP is the closest one to possibly getting there, by all indications, but depending on his background and mindset, may well be put off by heavy handed “you need to do this” advice.</p>
<p>And anneroku makes good points- sometimes the advice sounds like it is assuming facts not in evidence.</p>
<p>bookiemom,</p>
<p>I agree with northstarmom. The situation of your doctor is VERY DIFFERENT from what’s being discussed here. </p>
<p>As I mentioned multiple times, I am a product (or, should I say counter-product) of the Korean/Chinese style culture, which, I think, OP and his wife are part of. </p>
<p>Trust me, even by the standard of that subculture, what’s going on here is abnormal. The OP’s W issue is NOT culture bound. It’s mostly her own pathology. Though W’s tendency is more likely to be observed within that subculture where individual independence is less prized, the degree to which the OP’s W is leaning is way, way, way out of the boundary of the accepted norm even within Korean/Chinese subculture - even there we are only talking about 1st generation - the second generation will not tolerate it. So, let’s not chalk it off as a cultural issue.</p>
<p>Besides, even if we can attribute the whole thing to “culture”, the problem remains, because D is an American, and her future spouse will be most likely an American. Unless she picks her future spouse within a very narrow confine of her subculture, which really limits her choice, her spouse will not understand why her mother’s emotional needs are setting the agenda for the whole family and not likely to accommodate that. </p>
<p>My two sons are half Asian (me) and half Caucasian (my husband) and are being raised as Jews. There is NO way they will tolerate the meddling and suffocating mother in law that the OP’s W is destined to become at this rate. This will become a huge source of conflict within their own family.</p>
<p>I am really tired of all sorts of pathologies being excused as “cultural thing” simply because they are more likely to be observed within a certain ethnic culture. Should we condone honor killing because it’s that culture’s tradition? How about female circumcision? Need I go on???</p>
<p>I think this could be an arranged marriage. My guess is that POIH is Indian because he mentioned he played cricket before.
POIH, I wish you the best. Maybe you could talk to your D and maybe she and you can convince your wife not to move near MIT is the best option. Your wife might listen to your daughter and not you.</p>
<p>"I think your advice to seek counseling is well-intentioned, but in some of your posts you make assumptions beyond what we could possibly know about the OP and his family. If I were him, I would take offense at statements like these: "</p>
<p>Sometimes people do take offense when others suggest things that are painful because they also may be true. </p>
<p>I stand by my conviction that from what the OP has posted, his wife is demonstrating little concern for him or their relationship as a couple. She also seems to be highly skilled at manipulating him with guilt. </p>
<p>Obviously, the OP is in emotional pain or he wouldn’t have posted his concerns on this board. If the OP didn’t feel that something is wrong in his family life, he wouldn’t have posted here about the situation.</p>
<p>If caving into his wife’s demands was working for him, he wouldn’t have posted here. </p>
<p>It is very likely that he has more options than he is able to realize now. There’s also a good chance that he doesn’t have a clear perspective about his family situation. Consequently, counseling would be a wise course to pursue, and it certainly would be less financially risky than to move across country only to learn that drastic step didn’t solve his family problems or end his anguish.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Look at it from her POV, she had been planning and dreaming of moving with your daughter for the last few years, and seemingly all of a sudden, you are changing your mind …</p>
<p>I have a suggestion :</p>
<p>Involve her in your job hunting for your future job. Let her know of the difficulties you are encountering. </p>
<p>Sit down and figure out TOGETHER what happens if your income is not as high as you planned for. Maybe even get your daughter involved in the process. She may not want to see her school fees in jeopardy and may even want you to stay put for financial security reasons. </p>
<p>Put some real numbers to your scenarios so they can understand your concerns and worries. For eg. if you can only have an income of $.5X instead of $X, both you and your wife may have to sell your home in Cali in a down market to raise cash to pay for your d’s expected graduate school. Your wife, who I suppose have the choice of whether to work or not work right now, will be forced to work, teaching or whatever she can find, to help pay the bills. Both of you may have to postpone your retirement plans, etc. I have a feeling your wife and daughter think you have XYZ nestegg and your are being a worrywort or just didn’t want to move for your own reasons. Get them involved in your analysis. If your wife won’t agree with your analysis, maybe she will listen to a financial planner ? </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I smiled when I read this, I have heard this so often. What do you think she miss back home ? The maids ? ;)</p>
<p>I don’t think that moving to follow the daughter or the reluctance to undertake therapy is purely cultural. Although I do think that culture can be and probably is a factor here that cannot be ignored. </p>
<p>I certainly cannot say what is within a cultural norm for the OP on this matter. It sounds like others of similar background have indicated that this situation is out of cultural bounds. </p>
<p>One of the key points is that, regardless of parents’ cultural leanings, the D is growing up first generation American. And therefore must learn to survive within this culture. How the parents help her accomplish this is up to them. How she ultimately responds is up to her. How they all navigate this college process is a combo of cultures and personality.</p>
<p>POIH - I would be excited at the prospect of moving somewhere different and experiencing a whole new way of life, and I imagine that was how you were feeling about the prospect of moving to the East Coast before the recession kicked in. As long as your daughter is OK with it and she can set and enforce boundaries, it would be fine. Here’s what I think you should be concerned about:</p>
<ol>
<li>Your wife is adamant about moving and refuses to listen to your point of view or compromise in any way, even though moving could pose a serious financial risk.</li>
<li> When informed that her expectations are unrealistic she doesn’t re-evaluate, she just gets mad.</li>
</ol>
<p>She is not acting like an adult. You and your daughter must.</p>
<p>If your wife moves East, your daughter needs to be clear about the ground rules. I went to college a 10 minute bike ride from my parents’ house, and I only agreed to do so after they promised to respect my privacy as if I were 3,000 miles away. No unannounced visits to my dorm, no expectations that I would go home except during breaks, and I got to set my own schedule. They could invite me to dinner, and I could check my calendar and let them know whether or not I was available, no questions asked. They always honored that. Even so, looking back I would not recommend to my kids to go to college that close to home. There is a certain amount of growing that occurs by having some physical separation between parent and child. Living in NYC or suburbs would be fine; living in Boston would be too close.</p>
<p>Clearly your wife has suffered serious losses, first from the death of her father and then from having to leave her family. However, you don’t need to spend your life atoning for her loss. If her family is still in Asia, they have no way of understanding the financial repercussions of a move to the opposite coast. Their opinion is of little value because it is not based on the financial realities. </p>
<p>If your wife will not participate in the decision process, then you will have to work through the various scenarios and pick the path that seems best (or I should say, least bad). Only you can decide if the cost of molifying your wife is worth it. And your daughter is going to have to learn to handle her mother on her own. What if you were to die or become incapacitated? She needs to establish and enforce the ground rules herself. You can support her in setting limits but you can’t protect her from her mother forever!</p>
<p>Being a minister isn’t the same as being a trained professional for serious counseling issues - unless that person also has the psych or social work degrees plus licensure. People with serious medical/pyschological problems need more than the kind (and biased) words of their minister. Telling people what they want to hear in the hope they will come around to your way of thinking wastes valuable treatment time.</p>
<p>Be concise, clear and brief- say what you want without making the person follow you down a perhaps false path.</p>
<p>Keep up the good work, Northstarmom.</p>
<p>Others- pay attention to the situation, don’t relate a confusing apples/oranges story that doesn’t apply.</p>