Hi. I am about to finish my first year at college and I love it. But I don’t love my grades. I am unsure of my major right now but I am premed. I love science and I want to be a doctor, but my performance this past year has made me question myself. I go to one of the schools in the Ivy League and getting in was a big deal for my family (we immigrated to the US when I was young). I want to do well and after this past year I’ve learned a lot and I’ve thought about myself, my work and habits, and my goals and I already know what I need to change in my life to get the results I want, and I’m prepared to do whatever it takes. I know it’s hard, but it’s tough for everyone so I know my struggle isn’t in any way singular or unheard of and that is definitely encouraging. But regardless of how hard I plan to work and the changes I plan to make, I also recognize the past can’t be undone and my mistakes will carry with me. For that reason, I thought I’d post on here to see how powerful of an effect those mistakes may have moving forward. My grades for my freshman year:
First Semester:
Gen Chem 2: C
Immunology: B
Introduction to Neuroscience and Behavioral Science: B
Introduction to Public Health: A
Second Semester (these are just estimates because they haven’t come out yet)
Orgo 1: B/C (I don’t know what I’ll get yet)
Stats: B
English (just a random English class I found interesting, not super high level): A/B
Public Health 2: A
So my questions are:
I have not taken the finals for Orgo or Stats yet. If Orgo looks like it will be a C, should I drop the course before I take the final? By doing so, it won’t show up on my transcript and I can retake it later. Will dropping the course and having only 3 courses appear on my transcript be a red flag regardless or is the C more detrimental (especially because I have a C in gen chem from before)?
If the best case scenario were to unfold and I got a B in orgo and Stats and an A in my English class and Public Health, how does that first year look for a student attempting to apply to medical school? I’d preferably like to apply in my junior year but I don’t know how possible that is for me considering how I’ve done this year.
Anything I can do to improve my chances? I’m doing some research and have an internship for the summer and I plan to be an EMT next year too. I also volunteer in the hospital. Should I retake some classes? Do I take a summer class? I’m ready to do whatever it takes!
I’d say a W (withdrawal) is better than a C since a C will have a negative impact on your GPA/sGPA going forward. A W will not. One W on your transcript is not an app killer.
AMCAS reports grades one year at time. With the W, you’ll still have 8 classes listed on the freshman page, but only 7 that give you credits. I strongly doubt adcomm members will ding you for it.
Adcomms generally do not look that granularly when looking at transcripts. They look at grade trends over time and grades in key courses (like Ochem ).
Don’t get fixated on the idea of applying to med school after your junior year. Absent some miraculous improvement in your freshman science grades, you will probably want to delay applying until after graduation so you can use the extra time to strengthen your sGPA. Also, don’t rule out the possibility of applying to osteopathic med schools.
Retaking classes that you’ve passed is a poor idea. Retakes have much more power to hurt you than does the initial attempt at the class. A retake diminishes your achievement if you ace it. ( Of course @briansmith aced Ochem 1, he’s had 2 swings at it. ) Conversely if you don’t ace the class on a second attempt, it just proves to the adcomm that you aren’t a strong student. (Ouch! @briansmith couldn’t ace Ochem 1 even on his second try.) BTW, the second try rationale applies to classes you’ve taken a W in too. No pressure, but you really need to ace Ochem if do decide to withdraw and take it again next fall.
The best way to prove that you’re a strong contender academically is to take challenging upper level science electives and ace them all.
Research is nice, but it’s not 100% essential to gaining a med school acceptance. (15% of matriculating students report that they had zero research experience. A survey of med school admission offices ranked research as “of medium importance.”)
Clinical experience is always good. Keep at it. Besides clinical experience, the other two behavioral items adcomms ranked as being of the “highest importance” are leadership and community service (esp with vulnerable populations). Considering spending a couple hours/month working with the less fortunate in your community.
Don’t take any summer science classes. Especially don’t take Ochem during the summer.
It was probably a mistake to go straight into gen chem 2. If you only take 3, would that even be full time student status? Your financial aid/tuition might change. Finally, I’ve never heard of being able to withdraw with no penalty a week before finals. Are you sure it won’t show up as a W that you get 0/4.0 for? That would tank your GPA for a while-- are you able to retake a C?
I may add that you might have the smart to get in an Ivy, but your work ethic may causes the low performance. My suggestion is as follows:
You should attend/participate ALL your BCMP professors' office hours, no matter how difficult it might be. Ask questions from the immediate past class sessions that you have doubt. Professors normally will give out tips and hints in their office hours about the upcoming tests and you will benefit from attending.
If you can withdraw the ORGO I, use the summer to prepare for the next semester or year Orgos. You should get TWO As in Orgo to improve your chances. If you get Bs, they won't look good.
Spread out your study hours, do not study the tests the day before. Never cut BCMP classes.
How much confidence do you have in Bio and physics, especially calculus based physics usually offered in the Ivies. If you cannot get all As in that, based on your first year performance, you might want to consider plan B. I think public health is your strong point. You know very well that an Average B in BCMP won't get you in to a med school, no matter what school you are coming from.
Regarding research, especially paid research, basically is the professors hiring UG students as lab technicians. That won’t get much brownie scores from med school adcoms. What is respected by the med school is that if you can independently apply research grant for a project of your own and completed with a report, no matter how small the project might be.
So at many of the Ivies, you can drop a course and it doesn’t appear on your transcript at all (no W or anything). It just looks like you took 3 courses. Which is my worry because that also seems like a red flag.
So at many of the Ivies, they actually let you drop a course and that course will just not appear on your transcript at all. It just appears that you took 3 courses, which is my worry because taking 3 seems like a red flag in and of itself.
I doubt adcomms will red flag you for having 7 classes (total) as a freshman. Freshmen get bit of leeway because they’re stilling adjusting to the workload in college.
But a continuing pattern of light semesters/years? I can guarantee that will get noted and you will get dinged big time for it.
Med school is equivalent to taking 24-35 credits/semester of nothing but science classes. Adcomms are looking for some sort of reassurance that you’re capable of handling that kind of load.
At Brown you definitely can do this (Deadline for this year is Tuesday May 8th). Given that OP has no +/-s on the transcript, there’s a good chance that’s where they are. Pretty sure OP is wrong that “most” ivies let you. In fact, I think Brown is the ONLY one with such a liberal policy. 3 classes at Brown is a below average courseload and would probably be a red flag, especially if there isn’t some extraordinary EC to accompany it and “justify” taking only 3 classes. If the GPA is low enough, human eyes will never even see the app though…
Some would argue that given the way AMCAS is worded, these courses would still have to be included but I always interpreted it as saying if there is literally 0 record of it on your transcript, it doesn’t have to be reported otherwise you’d have to report classes you shopped at that doesn’t feel like it’s in spirit with what they want.
What is YOUR citizenship status, OP? Foreigners are extremely disadvantaged in the application process both from admissions and from financial aid (some schools offer internationals no aid and require all 4 years up front).
Would retaking it without dropping it replace the first grade if you did substantially better the second time? If so, I think that would “look” better if that’s what you are going for. The GPA needed for med school is going to take a lot of hard work and stellar grades from here on out either way.
Guessing you’re at Brown. So, drop the class. It’s an opportunity they give you, seize it, that’s what it’s for. You’ll have to up your game though, because if you don’t get A/A- in all 4 classes next semester, your med school ambitions are done for.
Assuming you’re at Brown, the correct way I heard is to walk-in to the final exam and come straight out (this way you’ll get the lab credit so you don’t need to re-take the lab again). Who’s the professor for your Orgo1?
Based on your 1st semester grades, you got B in immu (which is generally considered an easy A class) and C in Gen Chem 2, I’d say your science capability is not good compared to your class peers (you basically scored at/below class average). I’d suggest you should get a private tutor to help you in Orgo because TAs and professor office hours won’t help you much.
This is not grade replacement. It is how certain colleges handle internal vs external transcripts (Brown, UPenn?). Re-take classes won’t show up in external transcript which is what AMCAS gets. Another reason to go to Brown for pre-med.
As I wrote in the other thread (but just so it’s here for others to see), I’m fairly certain that Brown is the only ivy with this policy, let alone “many.”
But he wouldn’t really be retaking it if he never finished the class, correct? It would be withdrawing and Brown doesn’t record Ws on the transcript if you drop before finals (I think that’s the rule).
What’s academic bankruptcy?
MS4Life - decided to actually look the other 7 schools up. I assumed in your posts that you are referring to dropping courses now, in May. Obviously, you can drop courses far earlier in the semester without a W on your transcript at all the schools and they have varying points at which the W comes into play, but as you'll see below, none of them are as late as Brown's (This year it's May 8th):
BROWN
I’ll note here that by mentioning the internal record, there is the implicit statement (and I can speak to this from personal experience dropping a 5th course 3 or 4 weeks into the semester because I needed more time to decide on my 4th course) that the course is not recorded at all on the external transcript that any medical school or AMCAS would see.
Here’s AMCAS’ complete list of what has to be reported
Withdrawals have to be reported.
The OP probably ought to ask AMCAS. Here’s their helpline phone 202-828-0600. There are AMCAS employees who can give a definite answer to the question.
RE: Academic bankruptcy-- is a policy at some colleges that allows students to remove grades from their transcript.
Some colleges allow currently enrolled students to remove up to a full quarter or semester of poor grades from their transcript so long as thy apply before graduation. Students don’t need to give a reason or explanation for the request.
Other colleges allow students to petition to retroactively remove a quarter/semester/year of poor grades if they can demonstrate there were extraordinary circumstances–like a major illness, or serious financial or family problems–that affected their ability to perform well academically.
In Texas, the Academic Fresh Start program allows students at TX public colleges to request to have some or all of the grades which are more than 10 years old to be removed from their transcripts at the time they enroll. The old grades do not need to have been earned at a TX college or university, but can be from any college.